Any advice on DS starting DE classes?

[Trilliums]

I know there are a few families here with kids who took advanced math/science as DE in high school before attending college. Any issues you wish you knew about sooner? If your child started dual enrollment classes, how did the work load affect their other subjects? Any advice/awrnings/things to think of as my son plans his first DE classes?

 

Junior year DS can take intro physics 2 and comp sci 2 and 3 at the local University at no cost us. The University adviser recommended physics 2 for majors, but that class is only offered mid day, interfering with high school classes. Senior year he plans to continue with math, physics and comp sci classes. At that point, I do not know how he will fit in his LA and language classes, or any kind of electives. He is currently grade 10 in public high school full time after hsing grade 1-9.

 

 

Junior year he should also take (high school):

AP American Govt.

Literature class

Spanish 2

AP Calc BC. He is self studying calculus now in order to be better prepared for the physics class and has just passed half way mark through AoPS calculus book.

If he attends the public school he needs to take a trimester each of PE, economics, health.

 

He can take classes at the high school or do a combination of public school, online and self study.. He has enjoyed the interaction of live classes and is less interested in online classes at this point, but scheduling his DE classes is hit first priority, with the physics class being top priority. He will most likely take only one university class per semester, but if first semester goes well, he could take two.

 

He plans on a undergraduate degree in physics with a minor (or dual major?) in computer science. He wants to apply to selective schools but attending our big state university is an option.

 

I feel some anxiety creeping into me. He is a strong student but he likes to think about assignments thoroughly and work on them meticulously. He ends up spending a long time on his homework and he seems .... tired to me already. He has cut down on extra curricular activities because of his school work (some of this, like the calculus, is self imposed). Sometimes lately, when I suggest activities (minor family things), he declines and says he would like to just sit there and do nothing for a while. I have never heard him say anything like this before and it surprised me. I wonder if he is already over extending himself and he isn't even taking any DE classes yet. He has 7 classes at the high school now, including AP Physics and AP Comp Sci. His other classes are honors except Spanish 1, which has been surprisingly easy for him (he has struggled with dyslexia issues in the past and I thought foreign language might be over taxing for him.)

 

ME: :scared: :scared: :scared:

[regentrude]

My DD started with one dual enrollment class at the university, French 2, for her first semester, and then increased to two courses, French and Physics.

She is doing very well, but both classes are extremely time consuming.

For her physics course, the rule that you have to spend about two hours outside of class for every hour in class is completely true (which is par for the course; my own class is similar). So with four hours of lecture/recitation per week, plus two hours of lab every other week, she spends on average a total 15 hours per week on physics. French is similar.

We have chosen to handle this by backing off in all other subjects. To put things into perspective, keep in mind that each of those college courses is a full high school credit, so that's equivalent to 4 credits for the year. She has front loaded her year by covering calc 1 and much of her English reading over the summer; we will finish up history over the summer. I have had to adjust the rigor of our history class; where we went above and beyond in previous years, it will now be only a no frills, standard course.

My advice would be: you can't do it all. Doubling up on certain subjects (which taking a demanding dual enrollment class is, in effect) means lowering expectations elsewhere. DD focuses on excelling in her DE courses; she learns time management and learns to deal with her work load. I do not need my high school student to carry a full college load. So, I accept that the home taught classes can not be equally demanding, and that's OK. But I do worry when too much work creeps into the weekends and when she feels stressed. If she were not to have time for choir and horseback riding, I would make her cut back on classes. So far, she handles it well and is planning to take 3 hour classes next semester.

 

If your son has the option to take high school courses or not, I would personally lean towards NOT doing high school while taking university classes so that you have the flexibility to adjust his work load. I find it more important that the student learns to handle one college class really well (and the grade will be part of the permanent college transcript) than trying to keep too many plates in the air. I am very careful to avoid burnout before even hitting full time college.

[Sunshine State Sue]

tired to me already. He has cut down on extra curricular activities because of his school work (some of this, like the calculus, is self imposed). Sometimes lately, when I suggest activities (minor family things), he declines and says he would like to just sit there and do nothing for a while. I have never heard him say anything like this before and it surprised me.

 

I would pay attention to this...

 

To put things into perspective, keep in mind that each of those college courses is a full high school credit,

 

I am very careful to avoid burnout before even hitting full time college.

 

I have a friend with a genius dd who is burned out. Pay attention!

 

We are advised to start with 1 CC class in a subject the student is strong in OR start with a class called The College Experience that teaches time management, research skills, study skills, test-taking strategies, etc. I started ds in 10th grade in 2 classes: Intermediate Algebra (math is a strength) and The College Experience. In 10th grade, he took 2 CC classes, 2 PS classes, and 2 online classes (HS level) 1st semester and 3 CC classes, 2 PS classes, and 1 online class (HS level) 2nd semester. In 11th grade, he is taking 4 CC classes and 2 PS classes. 1 of the 2 PS classes is an elective (PE).

 

Our PS starts at 7am and ends at 2pm. Ds has taken his PS classes early in the day, then goes to CC for classes, then goes back to PS for basketball practice. Yes, it was a pain before he got his driver's license. Yes, it's been a total juggle. He's taken some of the CC classes online because it didn't conflict with PS and/or basketball. Definitely prefer the in-person classes if we can get them at the right time.

 

Our PS also schedules 7 classes per semester, but the students only need 24 credits to graduate. This is ludicrous to me. Personally, I think that they have sacrificed quality (if there ever was such a thing in PS here) for quantity. I don't know how much flexibility you have. We officially hs, so I only really have to go by the university admission guidelines, which is something like 21 credits. Not saying I'm doing that either - just an option. Hope that makes sense.

 

It sounds like your son is waaaay ahead. I would allow him to slow down. CC published fall 2013 classes today and so we discussed 12th grade. I told ds that he had all the credits he needed to graduate now. Since he still wants to play HS basketball, it would be best if he took classes that were not underwater basketweaving. But, his work load will likely not be as heavy as it was this year. There is no need.

 

Unlike regentrude's experience, ds has not had to put a whole lot of time into most of his CC classes. He is a bright and quick student - not a thorough student. Also, unlike regentrude, some of our CC classes do not count for a full HS credit: The College Experience, Intermediate Algebra, American Government, all Humanities. The ones that do count for a full HS credit: Sciences w/Lab, Math above Int Alg, Composition, Literature, Foreign Language. Here are our guidelines.

 

Always have backup plans...

 

HTH!

[8filltheheart]

I have no idea about working it around a ps schedule, but our 11th grade ds has had zero adjustment taking courses at the local university. Our ds has found that the university classes take less time than the AP and AoPS equivalents that he took in 10th. This yr he has taken/is taking uni physics 1 and 2, and multivariable cal and diffEQ. He has maintained the highest or close to highest grade in all of those classes, some of them having over 250 students.

 

We also did not back off his high school courses. He has not had any problems maintaining this schedule. However, I should qualify by saying that he is completely self-monitoring, self-motivating, and very focused.

[Trilliums]

 

For her physics course, the rule that you have to spend about two hours outside of class for every hour in class is completely true (which is par for the course; my own class is similar). So with four hours of lecture/recitation per week, plus two hours of lab every other week, she spends on average a total 15 hours per week on physics.

 

 

This is good to keep in mind.

Last week we went over the online schedule and saw the time commitment for the class, including, as you say, lecture, recitation and lab. After realizing the amount of time for this one class, DS suggested reducing his high school class load, to my relief. He had originally planned on AP English instead of a Lit class and adding in AP Biology as he was still thinking he should take 7 classes.

 

I agree about being able to adjust other work loads. We just mocked up a possibly daily schedule for him but still need to sit down and fully consider the time commitment involved.

 

 

I have a friend with a genius dd who is burned out. Pay attention!

 

 

This does concern me, for both my kids. Next thread: How to help kids avoid burn out!

 

 

It sounds like your son is waaaay ahead. I would allow him to slow down. CC published fall 2013 classes today and so we discussed 12th grade. I told ds that he had all the credits he needed to graduate now.

 

 

He has been very self directed in his high school education. I would allow him to slow down, but he doesn't want to. He finds physics & math fascinating and wants to be in these classes. It is, honestly, scary. Last year we were debating regular physics or AP physics and wondering if he would have had enough Alg 2 to get into pre-calculus at the high school. I don't know if he needs to be reined in or let loose! His physics and math teachers find him an exceptional student, so I do feel, at least, a strong sense of outside validation. Part of me wishes he would just go to the U full time next year. He would have fewer classes to keep track of.

 

 

About the high school credits, does your son already have 4 years of high school English? This is the one subject that would hold up DS. Our Univ. has a program for high school students to enter the U pursuing an undergrad degree, but they still prefer to see 4 years of English. I know he could take 2 semesters of LA at the University, but that adds additional kinks to his scheduling.

 

 

That sounds like a reasonable schedule. The only issue I wish I had known sooner was the attendance requirements for the DE courses. This CC only allows 3 absences per semester, whether that is a 5x/week course on the HS campus, or a 1x/week course on the CC campus. So add them up: 1-2 absences for sports playoffs, 1-2 for music ensembles, 1 for illness.... very easy to not earn credit b/c of conflicting high school activities.

 

 

Thanks for mentioning this. We will look into it. We generally don't have attendance problems but it is good to be mindful of possible limits.

 

 

He has not had any problems maintaining this schedule. However, I should qualify by saying that he is completely self-monitoring, self-motivating, and very focused.

 

 

My son too. He has definite 2e qualities though. Or at least he has for most of his life. His high school classes are going very well with 95%-99% in all his classes. I doubt he will have trouble with the concepts in either class at the U. He seems to take to programming quite naturally. He has watched most of physics 1-3 online at MIT open courseware. In AP Physics he has been familiar with all the concepts presented so far but physically completing assignments still takes time. The amount of time and effort he puts into each assignment concerns me. He works very hard...sometimes too hard! I never imagined I would be advising my kids not to work so hard. We will spend some time talking about ways to pace yourself.

 

I appreciate the replies. :)

I am a massive worry wort. Isn't there a worry emote??

[Sunshine State Sue]

About the high school credits, does your son already have 4 years of high school English?

 

Yes, here's what he's had:

9th - LLfLOTR at home for English 9

10th - Laurel Tree Tutorials HS Composition

11th - 1st semester CC Honors Composition 1 (counts as 1 year HS credit)

11th - 2nd semester CC American Literature (counts as 1 year HS credit)

 

I keep offering Comp 2, more Lit, and Speech for 12th grade, but so far he's resisting. It's looking like he'll take Spanish at CC rather than PS next year which is a very good thing....

 

HTH!

[Trilliums]

Thanks Sue! We did look into scheduling more classes at the U.

 

Did your son start with Spanish 1 at the CC or did he take a higher lvl spanish class after some self study?

 

Foreign language is another scheduling issue for DS since he is only in Spanish 1 now at the high school. He just won't have time to complete 4 years of FL unless he takes 2 semesters at the U or does some accelerated work on his own. He is ok with only having three years, I just wish we could work in 4.

[Sunshine State Sue]

Did your son start with Spanish 1 at the CC or did he take a higher lvl spanish class after some self study?

A bit of history: Ds wanted to attend PS full-time in 10th grade. The quality of our PS stinks. We compromised and ds has been taking 2 PS classes in 10th and 11th grade. He is actually making noises about only taking 1 PS class in 12th. Yes!

 

We had always planned on dual enrollment at CC because it is free for hs'ers in 10th-12th grade here.

 

Ds is in his 2nd year of Spanish at PS. He is the star pupil and foreign language is not a strength. He says it's mostly memorization, which is not a strength here. I would have liked to sign him up for Spanish at CC in 10th grade, but he had never taken Spanish before (dragged him through 4 years of Latin with last year covering the 1st semester of HS Latin) and I had heard that the CC Spanish teacher spoke completely in Spanish from day 1 and was tough. And then there was the veteran hs mom advice to start with a class that was a strength. I'm thrilled with him taking Spanish at CC because it will reinforce the vocabulary he's learned and he will speak/listen more. Since he's willing to take it 1st semester 12th grade, I'm hoping he'll be willing to continue with it 2nd semester 12th grade. Voila! 4 years. But, honestly, 3 (even at the HS level) would have been fine. More than I had for sure.

 

HTH!

[Trilliums]

Thanks for the reply Sue. :)

It is always interesting to hear how the home school/ps/DE enrollments can progress so many different ways.

I hope your son has a great year.