Murrayshire Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 We have been using essentials in writing 4 and 7......We are happy with the program but I'm still drooling over IEW writing. I know everyone states "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" but since I know I would like to use IEW for high school, should I go ahead and take the plunge for next school year? DD in 4th grade is getting better at writing thanks to essentials in writing but she still as a ways to go. Right now she still is in that "I don't like to write" stage. I sympathize with her but it's still not an excuse to lack in this area any further. DD in 7th grade is a wonderful writer....I don't think she necessarily needs as much structure but for middle school years maybe I should keep that structure in writing for her so I know she is ready for bigger things in high school. Does that make any sense? So my question is if I were to change over to IEW, should I start both girls in SID-B? I'm going to try to find the TWSS used for myself and possibly watch it throughout next year so that I'm equipped in writing for high school and middle years.....I'm also considering iew for my then 3rd grader.(3rd, 6th, 9th) I know I'm rambling on but I'm thinking aloud and hoping my message is clear. So for my 8th graders sequence in writing would it go something like this: (8th) SID-B; (9th) SICC-B or Elegant Essay (10th) Elegant Essay--if didn't use in 9th--with Speech Boot Camp; (11th) SICC-C or High School Level Intensive; (12th) SICC-C or Writing Research Papers . This is by no means a plan that is in stone. I'm just trying to get an idea of some sort of path so I know where to start! She is enjoying Lightning Lit. and has looked at the upcoming years and says she wants to follow that route for lit. This could change I'm sure.....How could I incorporate IEW with Writing and Lit. together so it is all in one.....and not using different publishers?? Any help with a certain sequence that you may have followed through high school would be much appreciated. Thank you as always Hive Minds! (We were planning on sending dd to our local ps but that is not an option now so I'm trying to look ahead for high school and then I'll get on a track for 8th grade next fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura in STL Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 It sounds like your girls are three years apart, and your older is more of a natural writer or possibly just is more willing to write. If this is correct, then I would hesitate to put them I the same level of Student Intensive. My dd is in 5th now, and we were advised to use A for her this year at the IEW booth. There is quite a change in volume of writing expected from A to B. I was also told you only need to do one SI then you can do CCs from there on, even when you jump to another level, so that might impact your long term plans. If you have the TWSS for you, another option is to use SI-B for your dd8th and a theme based course for younger dd. that would be more cost effective than buying two intensives, and your younger dd would probably be ready for SI-B in 6th. Fun and Fasinating Facts, Fairy tales, Myths and Fables, or the NarnIa book would be options for her age. We did F&F Facts our first year of IEW with a 5th & 3rd grader, and found it a great way to get introduced. We are planning to use Elegant Essay between the B and C levels. I think once this book is covered it becomes easy to integrate literature and writing because your student will understand how to form a thesis on any topic whether its literature, history, or science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murrayshire Posted March 22, 2013 Author Share Posted March 22, 2013 Oh, I didn't think about the volume of writing b/w A and B.....So maybe I should start with A or use a theme book. I do think she may benefit more with SID-A instead of me teaching it to her. She is a toughy to teach and this may give her a feel of independence. Maybe I could start 8th grader with a theme book or should she start with Student Intensive B? I may just have to wait until my convention is here in May before making a decision......Thank you for your advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sew happily ever after Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 If you wanted to do a theme book...medieval has BOTH level A and B assignments in them. I've taught it successfully to a class of students and it has gone BEAUTIFULLY! Of course u will do the teaching but it is all spelled out so well that u really cant go wrong! Otherwise If you want hand holding and u want to have the DVDs then I'd be tempted to tell u to go with level B. u can cut down the assignment length for your younger student. Don't forget to help that one more as they need it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shukriyya Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 If you are doing either Ancient, Medieval or Early American history as part of your program you could choose one of those. The assignments would be the same but with different requirements for each student. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murrayshire Posted March 26, 2013 Author Share Posted March 26, 2013 If you wanted to do a theme book...medieval has BOTH level A and B assignments in them. I've taught it successfully to a class of students and it has gone BEAUTIFULLY! Of course u will do the teaching but it is all spelled out so well that u really cant go wrong! Otherwise If you want hand holding and u want to have the DVDs then I'd be tempted to tell u to go with level B. u can cut down the assignment length for your younger student. Don't forget to help that one more as they need it! So, basically the main difference between A and B is the assignment length? Am I correct? Is the same content of both CDs? Thank you for chiming in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murrayshire Posted March 26, 2013 Author Share Posted March 26, 2013 If you are doing either Ancient, Medieval or Early American history as part of your program you could choose one of those. The assignments would be the same but with different requirements for each student. Older dd would be studying American and younger dd would be studying Ancients. I'm still trying to decide on what to do. I definitely cannot buy two different SWI's. Do you mind elaborating on what those different requirements are? Thanks a bunch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sew happily ever after Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 The content is not the same for SWI a and b. different content. Level b assignments are generally longer. They also might require fewer dress ups and style for level a. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murrayshire Posted March 26, 2013 Author Share Posted March 26, 2013 maadrose: Okay, got it! Thanks.......Hmmmm...so now I'm thinking maybe I should get TWSID-A for 5th b/c of the helpful dress ups and style and just do a theme book for 8th grader (US History since that may be what we are studying) :confused1: Then when dd is finished with A, we can move to Medieval theme book for 6th grade. My oldest dd probably wouldn't need the DVDs as much as my younger dd would. How does all this sound?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsunshine Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Personally, I wouldn't get too complicated, if I were you. Go ahead and use SWI-B for both your kiddos. It might be a little easy for your 8th grader, but you can give her more assignments and require more from her than your 5th grader (there are extra optional assignments included with the SWI.) The SWI is very flexible schedule-wise and assignment-wise. You can tailor it to each child's needs. I wouldn't do level A with a 5th grader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sew happily ever after Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Either of the above 2 options would be great! I have done level A with my 5th grader this year. All things fun and fascinating theme book. It's been light for her, but I wanted an easy and painless intro to IEW. I think if it is your 5th graders experience to IEW, level A makes sense. I think your eighth grader would enjoy the challenge of the US history based lessons. Just be sure to take longer than a week for some of the more challenging assignments especially since this will be her first experience with IEW. I think it really depends on what you want. Are you comfortable teaching the material or do u want the DVDs to do that? The US history book is written so that the students can read it and will have all the info needs to guide them through the assignments. You will supervise and edit as needed. Also there is a TM to go with it which will be helpful to you while teaching the material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murrayshire Posted March 26, 2013 Author Share Posted March 26, 2013 Either of the above 2 options would be great! I have done level A with my 5th grader this year. All things fun and fascinating theme book. It's been light for her, but I wanted an easy and painless intro to IEW. I think if it is your 5th graders experience to IEW, level A makes sense. I think your eighth grader would enjoy the challenge of the US history based lessons. Just be sure to take longer than a week for some of the more challenging assignments especially since this will be her first experience with IEW. I think it really depends on what you want. Are you comfortable teaching the material or do u want the DVDs to do that? The US history book is written so that the students can read it and will have all the info needs to guide them through the assignments. You will supervise and edit as needed. Also there is a TM to go with it which will be helpful to you while teaching the material. I think I eventually would just like to do the theme books, so I would need the teaching cds....TWSS, right? Starting my reluctant younger writer out on SWI A may be more helpful on my end to help introduce it smoothly to her. Then if all that goes well we could move to theme writing. By the time my dd is out of A, the following year I'll have a 3rd grader to take it over. Our Homeschool Conference is coming in May so I can talk to some of them in person for advice on where to start, too! Thank you so much for your advice and reassuring words! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TarynB Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Personally, I wouldn't get too complicated, if I were you. Go ahead and use SWI-B for both your kiddos. It might be a little easy for your 8th grader, but you can give her more assignments and require more from her than your 5th grader (there are extra optional assignments included with the SWI.) The SWI is very flexible schedule-wise and assignment-wise. You can tailor it to each child's needs. I wouldn't do level A with a 5th grader. I strongly agree. I also wouldn't do level A with a 5th grader, use B instead. It is somewhat about quantity of output, but also the reading level of the content/sources. A would probably feel baby-ish to most 5th graders. Also, I know some have done it, but I wouldn't have a kid do a theme book without having them first go through either an SWI or having you teach them after doing TWSS. I personally don't think you will be as happy with the result and you will miss a lot of the strengths of the IEW process if you do a theme book without either SWI or TWSS first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sew happily ever after Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 We started with theme books. They were cheaper :) also TWSS is very helpful and gives the why and how for the teacher. Especially for the later units. You could probably understand how to get started without it, but then be frustrated because you don't understand the later units. Also it's something you almost need to use for a year or two or three before you get consistent results. This is oldest dd second year with IEW and here at the end of the medieval lessons (she did ancient first) I'm noticing that some of the IEW style is transferring into her other writing assignments automatically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sew happily ever after Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Your plan sounds great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claluck Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 My 4th and 5th graders (both strong readers) are doing SWI B right now. They both are not great at writing. They are doing well with the program though they don't love it. They have voted not to do a video course for next year and want to do a theme based. (They just want to get done with the lessons quicker and feel somehow thy might go quicker without the video, I am not sure they are right because Pudewa moves pretty fast through the video but whatever the themes are a ton cheaper) But I feel a whole lot better teaching them a theme after watching the SWI B with them. I will be getting TWSS just to help me be a better teacher before then. I hope to study it over the summer. I can say while we are moving through it a bit faster. If you took it slower (there is a slower 2 week per lesson schedule) it would not at all be overwhelming for most kids this age. We went kind of fast through the beginning but have started to slow down now that we are a bit deeper in and needing more. Also join the yahoo group there are some great files in the files section to help you teach the units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura in STL Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 I would definitely visit the IEW booth at your conference. They have been very helpful to me and will clarify any concerns about choosing A vs. B. You can also see the theme books in person to see if they have enough instruction for you. I definitely recommend the TWSS, though. It has been the most beneficial to me in guiding and in grading my students work. The yahoo group is a great idea. Also check out the IEW website for live webinars that feature Andrew giving more instruction on each of the units. You can post questions to be answered, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murrayshire Posted March 27, 2013 Author Share Posted March 27, 2013 I strongly agree. I also wouldn't do level A with a 5th grader, use B instead. It is somewhat about quantity of output, but also the reading level of the content/sources. A would probably feel baby-ish to most 5th graders. Also, I know some have done it, but I wouldn't have a kid do a theme book without having them first go through either an SWI or having you teach them after doing TWSS. I personally don't think you will be as happy with the result and you will miss a lot of the strengths of the IEW process if you do a theme book without either SWI or TWSS first. Well, I wouldn't do a theme book for the first time without using the TWSS first to help me. I did notice on IEW site that they suggest a 5th grader start at TWSID-A but a lot of you guys think that's not the best place to start. Again, I may just have to wait for the conference to decide. Have you seen IEW at a conference before and if so do you know if they show the videos at their display booth? Thank you for chiming in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sew happily ever after Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 I really really really think level A would be fine. IEW does offer a 100% money back guarantee. If you are not happy with it (or if you think you would rather have a different level) return it. They even refund shipping. I think a convention worker would give you the same rec of level a for 5th grade. Now if your 5th grader had previous experience with IEW or if you wanted to combine the 5th grader with the 8th grader then I would recommend level B. I am a certified instructor through IEW and have taught both levels. Truly you can't go wrong with level A. But if you do level B know that the requirements will be longer (read: more writing). Will that be ok for your dd? Like I said my dd has done level A as a 5th grader. It's light but not too light. She still needs help adding in all the dress ups and getting the required sentence openers. Level A is a GREAT intro to IEW. level B will require much hand holding and guidance from you where level A might let her be in the drivers seat with you as a coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura in STL Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 I recommended A mostly because of the comments that you made about your specific 5th grader. I know many 5th graders use B, but it seemed to me that your dd was a bit on the reluctant side and would also be brand new to the IEW terminology, etc. Age might make a difference, too. My dd is on the young side - she is still 10, and we are in our fourth quarter. On the other hand, some families have 5th graders who have been 11 for almost the whole year. I don't know where your dd fits on that spectrum. I'm not sure about video samples at the booth. They might even have some on the website; I honestly can't remember. Will there be any IEW speakers at your convention? You might consider attending a workshop, if so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trudence1 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 For what it is worth, I used A with my two sons (11 & 8/9) this school year. My oldest was a VERY reluctant writer; the very mention of writing was enough to bring him to tears. My youngest loves to write, but his writing never really SAID anything and he couldn't wrap it up. It has worked VERY well for us. My oldest is now confident that he CAN write and there are NO waterworks. He is usually very excited about his finished products and has chosen to bring some of them for oral readings with our homeschool group!!! It might not work for all at that age, but for him the easy reading and then writing were a plus as he got on his "writing feet." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsunshine Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 I'm pretty sure that IEW recommends that, with two different dc, you should "shoot for the middle" of their levels. So, IEW would probably recommend SWI-B for your two. (I mostly think that IEW's recommendations for grade levels are too high -- SWI-C seems more like what should be junior high level writing than high school writing to me. YMMV). Also, SWI-B starts at the beginning with regard to terminology, etc., so you really don't need to worry about skipping over SWI-A. A theme book would be different, depending upon the book chosen. Generally, the theme books seem to cover more of the units than the SWIs do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murrayshire Posted March 27, 2013 Author Share Posted March 27, 2013 Ladies, you've given me so much to think about! Thank you for ALL your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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