Vyvance & Adderall

[CalicoKat]

OK we got a medication adjustment/change to help dd (adhd) with her behaviour. She'd been taking Focalin for a year with 4 different adjustment in meds and it wasn't working. So dr. perscribed Vyvance (a.m.) & Adderall. (4pm).

 

yesterday was her first day on the new medications.

 

This morning she tells me that she didn't sleep all night. Concerned it wasn an exaggeration I asked her how she spent the time. WOW, I do believe she truly was up all night.

 

I did, hesitantly, give her another dose of the Vyvance this a.m. Dr.'s office doesn't open for a couple more hours. Do you think, like I do, that it was the Adderall that was prohibiting sleep?

 

BTW her behaviour is beautiful. She didn't destroy anything, that I've been able to see, during the night. Which is a huge improvement. But I do think she ought to be able to sleep.

 

Thoughts.

[Ottakee]

I don't really know as I have never used Vyvance. I would call the doctor as planned. Maybe you could hold hte afternoon Adderall or try a lower dose or give it earlier??????

 

We use Melatonin here to help with sleep but I wouldn't want to do that if her sleep issues were directly related to a problem with a med.

 

Keep us posted on her behavior today.

 

One thing to watch for----esp. if she has any previous mood issues--is mania/hypomania coming on. For some kids with underlying mood disorders, stimulants can trigger mania.

[elizam]

Melatonin is commonly used for kids with ADHD, medicated or not. Apparently it's often the ADHD that causes the sleep problems. My ds was like that both off and on and now off meds again.

 

A good resource for topics like this is either this website or magazine:

 

http://www.additudemag.com

[CalicoKat]

I don't really know as I have never used Vyvance. I would call the doctor as planned. Maybe you could hold hte afternoon Adderall or try a lower dose or give it earlier??????

 

We use Melatonin here to help with sleep but I wouldn't want to do that if her sleep issues were directly related to a problem with a med.

 

Keep us posted on her behavior today.

 

One thing to watch for----esp. if she has any previous mood issues--is mania/hypomania coming on. For some kids with underlying mood disorders, stimulants can trigger mania.

I called them at 9 a.m. and left a message with the nurse for the doctor. I followup at 11 a.m and now it's 3 pm and still nothing.

 

Her behaviour is wonderful today! I can't believe this kid is the same one I've been struggling with the last 3 weeks. She still hasn's slept or mentioned sleep. But I'm amazed. She's playing hide-and-seek with her sibs--and has been for the past hour without any emotional incidents or outbreaks.

 

I'm going to hold off on giving her the adderall until I hear from the doctor.

 

She did have sleep problems before focalin and before this medication. She's always been a bit of a walker at night. We could never figure out if she was sleeping or awake. I think it was more of a combination. We'll try the melatonin.

[...................]

I am so surprised that a medical doctor would tell you to give dd Adderall at 4pm!!!

 

I was on Adderall for almost a year last year myself, and I was on a very SMALL dose. Even after I adjusted, if I took it any later than 2:00 I would not sleep all night!!

 

What I did was take my Adderall at 7am and 2pm. My doctor told me to adjust the timing if I wanted- that I could mess around with it myself. I tried taking it at 1:00 but then I was jittery. I tried for a week at 4:00 but then I didn't sleep ALL NIGHT. I tried 2:00 and this seemed pretty good- but remember, my bedtime is 10:30. If my bedtime was a child's normal bedtime of 9:00 I could NOT have taken my Adderall at 2:00...it would have had to be pushed back to probably 1:00.

 

MY doctor estimated that the optimum time for time release caplets are about 7 hours. So if your dd goes to bed at 9:00, then she probably can't take it any later than 2:00 depending on her metabolism.

 

I would try just taking the other medicince, Vyvance, as early as humanly possible- aka as soon as she emerges from bed, then take the Adderall at about 2:00. See how that goes.

 

Also, I did sleep better after the initial adjustment period.

 

Last, personally Adderall was good for me for a time...it helped me recover from a time of mental difficulties and get my routines, thoughts and lives back together. But on the 9 month period I was on Adderall I lost 10 lbs, and did become addicted (minor addiction but nonetheless it was an addiction.) Because of the weight loss I also began having more irregular periods. Also when the Adderall wore off I would get withdrawl around 10:30 pm of Crawlies and Itchies all over my body. I felt like a drug addict sitting htere scratching and gently rubbing myself all over!!

 

All that to say...since you do school in the morning, can she do without the Adderall all together?

[CalicoKat]

I am so surprised that a medical doctor would tell you to give dd Adderall at 4pm!!!

 

I was on Adderall for almost a year last year myself, and I was on a very SMALL dose. Even after I adjusted, if I took it any later than 2:00 I would not sleep all night!!

 

What I did was take my Adderall at 7am and 2pm. My doctor told me to adjust the timing if I wanted- that I could mess around with it myself. I tried taking it at 1:00 but then I was jittery. I tried for a week at 4:00 but then I didn't sleep ALL NIGHT. I tried 2:00 and this seemed pretty good- but remember, my bedtime is 10:30. If my bedtime was a child's normal bedtime of 9:00 I could NOT have taken my Adderall at 2:00...it would have had to be pushed back to probably 1:00.

 

MY doctor estimated that the optimum time for time release caplets are about 7 hours. So if your dd goes to bed at 9:00, then she probably can't take it any later than 2:00 depending on her metabolism.

 

I would try just taking the other medicince, Vyvance, as early as humanly possible- aka as soon as she emerges from bed, then take the Adderall at about 2:00. See how that goes.

 

Also, I did sleep better after the initial adjustment period.

 

Last, personally Adderall was good for me for a time...it helped me recover from a time of mental difficulties and get my routines, thoughts and lives back together. But on the 9 month period I was on Adderall I lost 10 lbs, and did become addicted (minor addiction but nonetheless it was an addiction.) Because of the weight loss I also began having more irregular periods. Also when the Adderall wore off I would get withdrawl around 10:30 pm of Crawlies and Itchies all over my body. I felt like a drug addict sitting htere scratching and gently rubbing myself all over!!

 

All that to say...since you do school in the morning, can she do without the Adderall all together?

The doctor did finally call. He said to give it to her no more than 3-4 hours before bedtime because when it wears off she'll get hyper--no sleeping. And to give melatonin 2 hours before bedtime to help her sleep.

 

I wonder now if we should just skip it altogether since the Vyvance is working.

 

Thank you for your testimony.

[Ottakee]

Personally, I would rather the doctor try one thing at a time. If the melatonin is new as well, he is doing 3 things at once--very hard to tell what is helping, what might be causing side effects, etc.

 

I would ask him about doing just the morning med and holding the afternoon Adderal for 1-2 weeks and see how she is doing. Then if she needs more you could try the Adderal or something else shorter acting or if sleep is more of an issue, add the melatonin.

 

I use the melatonin for 12dd every night--3mg before bed. The reason I mentioned waiting on the melatonin in my first post is that I don't like giving a med/supplement to counteract a side effect if there are other options (don't like the idea of adding med upon med upon med if the 1st one could be changed/altered to have less side effects) and our doctor is VERY big on doing ONE med/supplement change at a time if at all possible.

 

I am glad to hear she is doing so well though during the day. Changes like this in my own kids made me a BIG believer in medication for ADD/ADHD when needed.

[CalicoKat]

Personally, I would rather the doctor try one thing at a time. If the melatonin is new as well, he is doing 3 things at once--very hard to tell what is helping, what might be causing side effects, etc.

 

I would ask him about doing just the morning med and holding the afternoon Adderal for 1-2 weeks and see how she is doing. Then if she needs more you could try the Adderal or something else shorter acting or if sleep is more of an issue, add the melatonin.

 

I use the melatonin for 12dd every night--3mg before bed. The reason I mentioned waiting on the melatonin in my first post is that I don't like giving a med/supplement to counteract a side effect if there are other options (don't like the idea of adding med upon med upon med if the 1st one could be changed/altered to have less side effects) and our doctor is VERY big on doing ONE med/supplement change at a time if at all possible.

 

I am glad to hear she is doing so well though during the day. Changes like this in my own kids made me a BIG believer in medication for ADD/ADHD when needed.

Yup, I'm a believer too. She needs it. We'd talked about putting her in ps this fall--yesterday she looked up from voluntarily doing her work to say, "I want you to homeschool me this year. My medication is working so I won't have to go now, right?"

 

I didn't read your post last night but I made the decision to not give her adderall. I don't have melatonin in the house so when she came to me at midnight and said, "I'm WIDE awake!" I gave her some of the calms forte sleepy time drops that I've used for sleepless babies. It helped, she's sleeping. Whew!

 

I'm going to just give her the Vyvance today again. It's lasting a really long time.

[Ottakee]

Glad to hear that you are all seeing big improvements.

 

Does the Vyvance come in a lower dose at all? Could you give it any earlier in the day? I know some moms wake their kids up at say 6am, give them the meds, and let them sleep another 1-2 hours. Then again with some kids, they would NOT go back to sleep.

 

I do like the melatonin. I would though suggest starting with a lower dose and go up from there. Most kids do well with it but some have bad dreams and other side effects, esp. if the dose is too high.

[CalicoKat]

Glad to hear that you are all seeing big improvements.

 

Does the Vyvance come in a lower dose at all? Could you give it any earlier in the day? I know some moms wake their kids up at say 6am, give them the meds, and let them sleep another 1-2 hours. Then again with some kids, they would NOT go back to sleep.

 

I do like the melatonin. I would though suggest starting with a lower dose and go up from there. Most kids do well with it but some have bad dreams and other side effects, esp. if the dose is too high.

I was afraid to wake her up too early this morning because I didn't know when she'd actually gotten to sleep and how much sleep she got. DH says she was up really late again, but when I got up at 6 am. she appeared to be sleeping. Hopefully she got some sleep. She got her dose today at 8;15 a.m. I'll try to get it in her earlier tomorrow a.m., great suggestion.

[didasko]

Hi!

 

I see that you started your daughter on Vyvance in August. I'm considering this for my son, 9.7 years old. (after many months of neurofeedback and a bio medical approach...the edge is off, but he still can't really function in a school situation or non preferred tasks). Can you share your progress?

 

Thanks!

 

Denise

[cillakat]

I'd bypass the melatonin for tryptophan.

 

Tryptophan is the precursor to seratonin which is the precursor to melatonin. Providing sufficient tryptophan (250 mg or so) *on an empty somach*, 30-45 min before bed, with an ounce or so of juice will allow her body to process as much as she needs into seratonin and then into melatonin.

 

Tryptophan is available in powder or tablets or capsules. We do tablets from iherb.com They're 500 mg so I cut them in half for the kids and use as neeed.

 

As you know, each stimulant med works differently. Focalin was a train wreck for us. Vyvanse turns her into a weepy zombie. We like straight short acting generic adderall and give it 1-3x per day every 4.5h

 

dd9.5 also takes vitamin d sufficient to maintain blood levels of 50-55 ng/mL (800-1000 mg per day from all sources), b6, p5p, zinc, a multi, fish oil (3g about half dha/epa to 1:3 dha/epa), inositol powder and a few other things.

 

all the best,

Katherine

[CalicoKat]

Hi!

 

I see that you started your daughter on Vyvance in August. I'm considering this for my son, 9.7 years old. (after many months of neurofeedback and a bio medical approach...the edge is off, but he still can't really function in a school situation or non preferred tasks). Can you share your progress?

 

Thanks!

 

Denise

The vyvance is really working! It took us a bit to realized that there is about 1-1.5 hours after taking it for it to be effective.

 

 

Now DH gives it to her at 6 a.m. before he leaves for work. By 7 a.m. when I get up it's working and I don't have to start the day struggling with her behaviour. Or waiting for it to work so we can start school (no point in even trying without medication) She's catching up now with her school work. I'm amazed that she finally figured out addition and solving for the unknown. I didn't think she'd ever be able to catch that. She relies heavily on the MUS blocks for doing her math, but I do notice that now and again she's does have some of her math fact memorized. SHE CAN READ!!! Huge huge huge progress. The wall we hit a year ago is gone and she's making huge strides.

 

It really suppresses her appetite. So dh also fixes her a bowl of cereal before he leaves. Frequently she won't eat lunch. By about 4 p.m. she's

starving and we make sure she doesn't have to wait to eat.

 

Also, taking it earlier does help her be able to fall asleep without additional medications or supplements by about 10 p.m. Melatonin was giving her nightmares.

 

We have noticed that it's effectiveness can/is influenced by what she eats. Food coloring, HFCS, Preservatives, and fast food will all mess up her behaviour, even medicated, for up to 3-4 days afterwards. So it's more than just taking a pill, it's managing her diet.

 

Vyvance does not squash her personality like Focalin did. She's just a more controlled version of her unmedicated self. In general her relationships with her siblings has improved. And most definately I feel extremely positive about my relationship with her.

 

We do have a prescription for Adderall for evenings 4pm - ? We don't give this to her because she won't be able to sleep at all. We have given her a cup of coffee if we need her to keep her focus.

[didasko]

for your quick response. I'm so thankful to other Mom's who are willing to share their experiences!

 

I'm wondering if it will help with my sons (who's almost 10 years old) issues. He's inattentive/hyperactive/impulsive. I'm actually considering a 4 week clinical trial through a major university in our area. I've never wanted to medicate. Neurofeedback, and having neurotransmitters tested, using approriate supp's and diet have all taken the edge off, but he's still not where he needs to be. I'm afraid we are at this point now where this is our next step. The trial (using vyvance, no placebos) seems a great way to go, because we meet once a week to check on progress, and it's only 4 weeks.

 

Thanks for the feedback!

 

Denise

[sheryl]

I am so surprised that a medical doctor would tell you to give dd Adderall at 4pm!!!

 

I was on Adderall for almost a year last year myself, and I was on a very SMALL dose. Even after I adjusted, if I took it any later than 2:00 I would not sleep all night!!

 

What I did was take my Adderall at 7am and 2pm. My doctor told me to adjust the timing if I wanted- that I could mess around with it myself. I tried taking it at 1:00 but then I was jittery. I tried for a week at 4:00 but then I didn't sleep ALL NIGHT. I tried 2:00 and this seemed pretty good- but remember, my bedtime is 10:30. If my bedtime was a child's normal bedtime of 9:00 I could NOT have taken my Adderall at 2:00...it would have had to be pushed back to probably 1:00.

 

MY doctor estimated that the optimum time for time release caplets are about 7 hours. So if your dd goes to bed at 9:00, then she probably can't take it any later than 2:00 depending on her metabolism.

 

I would try just taking the other medicince, Vyvance, as early as humanly possible- aka as soon as she emerges from bed, then take the Adderall at about 2:00. See how that goes.

 

Also, I did sleep better after the initial adjustment period.

 

Last, personally Adderall was good for me for a time...it helped me recover from a time of mental difficulties and get my routines, thoughts and lives back together. But on the 9 month period I was on Adderall I lost 10 lbs, and did become addicted (minor addiction but nonetheless it was an addiction.) Because of the weight loss I also began having more irregular periods. Also when the Adderall wore off I would get withdrawl around 10:30 pm of Crawlies and Itchies all over my body. I felt like a drug addict sitting htere scratching and gently rubbing myself all over!!

 

All that to say...since you do school in the morning, can she do without the Adderall all together?

 

 

I am so surprised that a medical doctor would tell you to give dd Adderall at 4pm!!!

 

I was on Adderall for almost a year last year myself, and I was on a very SMALL dose. Even after I adjusted, if I took it any later than 2:00 I would not sleep all night!!

 

What I did was take my Adderall at 7am and 2pm. My doctor told me to adjust the timing if I wanted- that I could mess around with it myself. I tried taking it at 1:00 but then I was jittery. I tried for a week at 4:00 but then I didn't sleep ALL NIGHT. I tried 2:00 and this seemed pretty good- but remember, my bedtime is 10:30. If my bedtime was a child's normal bedtime of 9:00 I could NOT have taken my Adderall at 2:00...it would have had to be pushed back to probably 1:00.

 

Yes, aderall is an "upper", a stimulant. By no means should that be given in the pm. HSbaby posted a thread a month or so ago and we discussed the use of adderall, etc. You may want to search it.....a wealth of knowledge. My dd is on 20 mg aderall. She was on a... xr, but it kept her up because it was extended in addition to the charactertistic of the med itself being a stimulant. Now thanks to this thread I asked for regular aderall. The pharmacist said that this 20mg reg aderall works from 3-8 hours with the "peak" of the performance being at 3 hours after ingesting med. The pharmacist said that aderall xr stays in the system for "up to" 18 hours.....my poor dd was never really ever coming down from it, so thanks to hsbaby we asked for the reg aderall. It's doing much better for her, but I'm wondering if aderall is even the right med for her, I think she needs something else.