Writing With Skill - 4th Grade?

[HiddenJewel]

Could Writing With Skill be started in 4th grade and done half speed or would it be too advanced?

[Dana]

Depends on the kid.

We went through WWE 3 and then the text for WWE 4 and we're using WWS in 5th grade at a slow pace.

[HiddenJewel]

Depends on the kid.

We went through WWE 3 and then the text for WWE 4 and we're using WWS in 5th grade at a slow pace.

 

Does your student excel or struggle with writing?

[Chrysalis Academy]

We did the first 10 weeks in the spring of 4th grade - dd was *done* with WWE, meaning she had learned all she needed to from it and was starting to get bored. I think a student's boredom is always something to pay attention to, and to look for something more challenging for them.

 

We've done through week 22 so far in 5th grade. We didn't slow it down in a planned way, but we take as much time as it takes - so some of the longer topos assignments are done over 2 or 3 days. A couple of the assignments she was so into she wanted to do her own research and write a longer paper, so we stretched that one thing out over a whole week. And we've taken a few weeks off here and there to write about books we're reading, or something in history, etc.

 

It's been great. She's learned a ton from WWS, and sees its value even though she does not always love it. She was getting to a burnout place with it by the end of week 22, so we're taking a little break before jumping into the Literary Analysis section. I think that if you have a 4th grader who is a strong writer, and who is absolutely rock-solid on WWE-style narration & dictation, then it's worth a try, as long as you pay attention to your student and are flexible about how fast you go, taking breaks, etc.

 

I also think it's a program to do with an 8th grader. I think the skills are so fundamental, what is important is that a kid learn this stuff, when they are ready to. When isn't so important. Although I'm sure that kids who are a little older probably get more out of it, and produce more sophisticated pieces of writing, than younger kids.

 

One thing, if this is your dc's first really independent writing program, you will probably need to help with the reading of the directions. The instructions are directed to the student, and they are sometimes quite complex. They are written at a junior high school level, not a 4th grade level.

 

Only you can say what your dc is ready for, but it's definitely worth checking out if your dc is ready for new challenges in writing!

[Chrysalis Academy]

Oh, one thing I forgot to add - make sure your dc gets paragraphs before you begin. WWS assumes that a student is comfortable with dividing writing into paragraphs without providing much explicit instruction about how to do this. MCT's Paragraph Town is something I've liked to help with this. I'm sure there are many other resources. But it's not something that was taught explicitly in WWE either, so if you are going from WWE to WWS, you should plan to address it explicitly in between.

[HiddenJewel]

I looked at the WWE 4 sample and although I like the skills it is teaching, I can see the assignments going over like a lead balloon. I will print out the WWS samples and look them over in more detail to see if I think she is ready.

[Alte Veste Academy]

Could Writing With Skill be started in 4th grade and done half speed or would it be too advanced?

 

WWS is challenging. Very good, but very challenging. My question to you would be why, and it is the same question I asked myself prior to this school year. I bought WWS for DS10 to use in 4th (this year) because he had mastered WWE and was ready to move on. He needed/craved more specific instruction. WWS seemed the natural next step. Then I read through the whole thing, doing some of the assignments myself. Could he have done it this year? Yes. With a lot of sweat and maybe some tears, although he is not a reluctant writer. So, I had some thinking to do, options to evaluate (which was annoying :tongue_smilie:, because I thought here I was on this track, a nice safe track, and I didn't want to leave it).

 

I stumbled upon a talk by Andrew Pudewa about teaching boys and LOVED it. I haven't had something resonate with me like that in a long time. It made me look at IEW, and I am so very happy I did. I started TWSS/SWI-A in 4th instead of moving immediately to WWS. It didn't take long for me to realize that it was perfect for us at the time, a perfect bridge to the skills in WWS. DS10 will do IEW for 4th-5th and WWS for 6th-8th. This should work out perfectly, as SWB now says WWS4 will be optional, just as WWE4 is. I predict that this sequence will be a (relative) breeze for DS. (I am also holding out hope that SWB will put out an IG for WWS comparable to the one available for WWE, a tool to help us teach writing skills by pulling content from across the curriculum.)

 

Anyway, you could start slowly and stop of necessary. But then again, there is no rush.

[Dolphin]

I would wait. WWS is challenging, and it would have been a struggle in 4th grade. There is something that changes as children mature, and I think WWS is great for Logic Stage. It is structured to be a more independent program with the student taking a lot of responsibility for their work.

 

One thing you could do it get the The Complete Writer, the writing with ease teacher book. Then you could assign subjects you think your dd would enjoy.

 

If she is a strong writer, you could also experiment with another writing program for 4th grade. Look at writing from a different perspective. IEW, Brave Writer, or even the creative writer.

[Penelope]

I also started it at the end of fourth grade. I could not have started it at the beginning of that year, I don't think.

 

And we are still not quite finished a year later, though almost. I'm not sorry we started a little early. WWS was new and available, I did not like other options I had looked at, and he was ready for something beyond narrations. We were doing some other writing, too, but I wanted more guidance and to follow the WTM progression.

 

One thing to consider that I haven't seen mentioned is that reading skills also have to be in place to do this program. Most of the selections have not been a problem at all for ds, who has a fairly strong vocabulary, but there is a week near the end on Marie Antoinette where ds did not have the background knowledge to fully understand the passages. (Yes, we did cover this in history before and he even remembered Marie, but it wasn't enough). He had to look up many words and do some extra reading, as well as discuss with me, to have some context for understanding. I expect some kids this age might experience the same issue with one or another of the nonfiction passages.

 

[Amira]

My middle son could have started WWS in 4th grade, but I have no regrets that it wasn't available till 5th (we beta tested a small part of the program in 4th). WWS is planned to take three years, and I don't think it needs to be completed by 7th grade. I think 6th grade is a reasonable start with 5th being good for stronger writers.

 

I found that fourth grade (and 5th grade for my older son) was good for applying skills like writing paragraphs, narrating, level one outlining, and such in our other subjects.

[Chrysalis Academy]

I agree with Penelope about content, and I think lots of users have found this: we often have to provide some extra background info on some of the assignments, because the students don't have enough to be able to really get the notes they are reading. We found that on one of the early weeks, there topic is Alexander the Great, and they are supposed to choose aspects of his life to describe in a chronological narrative. Well, dd picked "Bucephalus" because she loves horses, but she didn't understand most of the other references (the Gordian knot, Macedonia conquers Greece, etc.) so she had trouble picking things out to write about. I learned after that assignment to check her knowledge of the topic and provide extra background on many of them.

 

And, at this point, I'm letting her substitute topics, too, as long as she can fulfill the assignment with the alternate. So, i.e., instead of writing about Daniel Boone, who she found boring, I let her write about Sacagawea, who she's very interested in. It definitely makes it easier, and the quality of the assignment is much higher when it's a topic she knows and cares about. I agree with Kristina, my preference would be to have her do this type of assignment across the curriculum, rather than with "canned" material, but it is hard for me to pull that off, sometimes, if it's not an obvious substitution like describing a different person. I haven't figured out how to do it with the science writing topics at this point. I am looking forward to applying the literary analysis lessons to our own books, though!

[HiddenJewel]

This is great information. Thank you. Just what I needed to know.