college plus, high school/clep college resources

[brla]

Ok, I've been researching some on College Plus and I am wondering if there is any way I can do something similar myself without paying them. Like thru clep testing or other testing? I want to be able to use my own resources for high school and not be tied into some type of duel-enrollment. Does such a resource exist? has anyone done this?

[G5052]

Basically they oversee doing CLEP and such and then have you enroll in a school such as Thomas Edison to finish up: http://www.collegeplus.org/howitworks/distancelearningcollege.

 

You'll have to do all of the research and coordination yourself though. Once you settle on a school (and Thomas Edison is a popular one), you just have to back up and figure out what tests to take to get the preliminaries out of the way.

[Pammy]

I am planning to do this with my son on our own. This summer, he will take three CLEPS (basically one each month). Then next year he will take 5. That will be 21-26 credits, which is almost a full year of college. I have a friend whose 15 yo son has already earned 41 credits by CLEP exams. Yes, Thomas Edison will take up to 90 transfer credits, even CLEP exams. So, if you have a motivated learner, it can be done independently!

[Lori D.]

Ok, I've been researching some on College Plus and I am wondering if there is any way I can do something similar myself without paying them. Like thru clep testing or other testing? I want to be able to use my own resources for high school and not be tied into some type of duel-enrollment. Does such a resource exist? has anyone done this?

 

 

I do not work for College Plus, and I'm not at all trying to plug College Plus -- just sharing from the experiences of several friends. But from what I'm learning of how the College Plus program works, I think it would be extremely difficult to do what you are suggesting.

 

 

 

Most colleges and universities will only accept a maximum number of CLEPs, AP courses, or even transfer classes from other institutions. The first hurdle will be to find an institution that will accept a combination of CLEPs and distance courses that meet the specific course requirements for a degree. Typically, a BA is about 120 units; many institutions will only accept about 55-65 units as transfer units. Also, a fairly typical number of CLEP units accepted by universities is about 40-60 -- and often they are only of the freshmen/sophomore level of general ed. courses.

 

Not all the credits through College Plus are just self-study and then a CLEP test -- a number of them are on-line courses with required discussion sections and papers. You would need to figure out which classes you can cover with CLEPs, and how to fill those specific holes with distance learning or other options that the institution that would be awarding the degree would accept.

 

For choosing your own resources for high school -- you would have to research carefully if the resources for high school you want to use would be of true college-level. And, more importantly, would be accepted by colleges. The real trick there, is that very likely there would be no pre-existing college credit accreditation test for some of the materials you might wish to use. How then do you get a college to accept your materials as college credit?

 

I know College Plus is willing to work with you to some extent on using your own materials, at least for the initial few classes. One student I know who is currently doing College Plus is doing a combination of an online writing class and a common homeschool writing program at home for accomplishing the college freshman writing credit.

 

Because it takes several years, even working solidly to complete a BA, you'd need to have an agreement in advance with a university or college who would be granting the degree at the end of the process that requirements would not change partway through, or that they WILL honor the credits 2 years down the line. And from the other point of view, a university or college may not be willing to work with you as an individual, feeling that to be too risky for them; they may only be willing to award a degree if you've gone through a known and reliable program, such as College Plus or other.

 

Not saying you can't overcome these hurdles; I'm just suggesting that it may be a lot of time and effort on your part.

 

It sounds like money is 1 of your 2 concerns (the other being wanting to pick your own materials). One thing to consider is how much time you would be putting in, and would it really be saving you enough money to do all this work yourself.

 

From what my friends were saying, College Plus costs about $12,000-14,000 depending on which degree and how long it takes you to do it. Paying for the books for studying for the CLEPS, paying for the CLEPS, and paying for the online courses, is a little less than half of that cost -- you'll be paying that whether you arrange all of this or College Plus does. That means you save about $6000-7000. Would the amount of hours of work you'll need to put in be worth the savings? Only you can answer that...

 

 

Finally, one last thing to think through before attempting this either on your own or through College Plus or another program: Do you have a good schooling/working relationship with your student? How motivated/self-disciplined is your student? And is your student willing to pretty much do nothing else for the last 2 years of high school in order to complete a college degree simultaneously with finishing high school? (Although perhaps if you're doing this on your own you plan to take longer than 2 years, and finish sometime after high school graduation in order to have more "breathing room" during high school...?)

 

I know 3 high school students doing College Plus -- one graduated high school 1.5 years ago completing her BS in the last 2 years of high school; one will graduate from high school at the end of this summer and will have also completed her BA; and the third is in 11th grade and in her first year of the College Plus program. They are all very bright, driven, responsible, self-motivated young women -- and every one of them has said that the weekly conferences with the College Plus mentor was absolutely critical for them to be able to keep going and complete the program. They have all said that it is extremely difficult to work for 2 solid years (you work through the summers), on your own, with no going to a classroom for accountability or encouragement, when you are 16-18yo, and keep churning out those credits. About $3000 of the cost of College Plus pays for your mentor, and the moms of all 3 have said it was worth every penny, and it was not a job they would have been able to do. And all 3 of these moms are extremely supportive, smart, and organized.

 

 

Anyways, NOT at all trying to discourage you -- just trying to give you some specific concerns to think through and to help give you starting points for research. BEST of luck, whatever you decide! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[brla]

Thank you all. This is EXACTLY what I needed to know! I've got lots of thinking/considering to do...Thanks again!

 

Heather

[Pammy]

Lori, that is a great post! Do you mind if I share it with my CLEP info group ?

[Lori D.]

Lori, that is a great post! Do you mind if I share it with my CLEP info group ?

 

 

 

No problem! But do be aware I'm no expert, and by no means have all the info on this topic; just sharing a few random thoughts! Bottom line: when CLEPing, be sure to check and double-check with the college/university of your choice about their CLEP policies. Every institution is different. :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

[MomsintheGarden]

My two oldest have each taken several CLEPS for useable credit at 4-year brick and mortar colleges, so I know a little about getting credit. They used a combination of college texts, REA prep books, and online flashcards at instantcert.com and speedyprep.com.

 

Two of my nieces got their degrees from Thomas Edison through Verity Institution (http://verityinstitute.org/). Verity helped them coordinate their credits and distance learning classes to get their degrees in the same way as College Plus. They were able to get their degrees in about 2 years each. One has a degree in communications, and the other in sociology.

 

Here are some pros and cons:

Pros

- quick way to get a degree

- inexpensive way to get a degree

- can be done in a way to allow for flexibility of time and responsibilities

- can be done at home

- many degree choices from the big three regionally accredited distance learning degree grantors

- if you go with the big three, your degree is regionally accredited (regional acc. is better than national acc.)

 

Cons

- you receive a degree with no gpa

- your degree choices are limited, especially because many hard science or engineering degrees (those that require labs) are not able to be obtained in this way, and they are not certified by key organizations, such as ABET for engineering or ACS for chemistry

- can be harder to get into many grad schools with this kind of degree because of no gpa/cert

- the testing can be high stress, emphasizing testing/rote rather than learning/discovery oriented learning

- if you want to get your degree quickly you will need to cram, cram, cram. This can cause stress and burnout.

 

My nieces were happy to be able to get a degree inexpensively and in a shorter time, but neither found their degree marketable. The sociology ended up working as a manager at a grocery store and is now in sales for a small company. She is doing well at that. The communications major did various things for five years, working in the schools part time and other odd jobs, because she was helping her parents at home. She is now a missionary, which was her ultimate goal. I think that neither niece has regrets. They do think that it may have been better to have gotten a degree from a b&m school, but couldn't afford it.

 

I have been to a homeschool seminar where a family discussed how their children received their degrees from TE by self-planning. It was stressful and detail-intensive, but they are glad they did it. Their daughter was able to matriculate to a good grad school in her major (English).

 

If you are going the self-planning route I recommend buying the book, College Without Compromise by Scott and Kris Wightman. Some things have changed since 2005, but their book is the best resource I've read for getting this type of degree.

 

Best wishes in your degree seeking,

GardenMom

 

Edited to add:

PS I forgot to add that a key strategy recommended by those getting degrees through TE is to accumulate a "credit bank" of CLEP and Dantes exams taken before officially enrolling in TE. The goal is to have enough potential credits so the student only has to enroll with TE for one year or less, as tuition is paid yearly. HTH

[Lori D.]

This is SUPER info, GardenMom! Thanks so much for sharing!

 

 

 

My nieces were happy to be able to get a degree inexpensively and in a shorter time, but neither found their degree marketable...They do think that it may have been better to have gotten a degree from a b&m school, but couldn't afford it.

 

 

This has been my big question mark about these type of degrees as well. I wonder if it is a function of a poor economy and that degree would not be that helpful anyways, where ever it was earned -- or, if it is partially due to the way it is earned and has no GPA that makes it less accepted...?

 

Of the 3 young ladies I know going this route, but through College Plus, the one who graduated and earned her degree has her own business as a swim coach, and thought she might one day go back for a master's degree in business if it would be helpful to her. She was REALLY burned out on school and academics after such a big push; and honestly, her experience as a high-performing swimmer would have landed her just as many jobs as a swim coach -- the degree has not done anything for her as of yet.

 

The young lady who will finish at the end of this summer plans to take a year and do medical missions to see if she really does want to go to med school or not, so we'll see how her degree works out. The third young lady is too early in the process to know how that might turn out.

 

Just musing aloud here... :) Warmly, Lori D.

[kiana]

Other issues -- for many of the degree programs, precisely enough courses are offered though Thomas Edison to complete a bare minimum degree in the subject. While that is enough to get a B.A., it may not be enough to continue if the student so desires. For example, someone who had studied mathematics with them would probably not be prepared to continue to graduate school without a post-graduate year, for which they would likely not get funding (they do not appear to have analysis or abstract algebra courses). I am not really qualified to speak on their other courses.

 

For many graduate schools, the issue is not "can the student get admitted" but "can the student get funding". There are very few graduate programs which I would say would be advisable to follow without funding, and every one of them is vocational (for example, master's in nursing). Graduate school admissions (in academic programs) relies heavily on letters of reference from professors who are familiar with the academic work of the student, and it's going to be much more difficult to get that in a degree program where the goal seems to be to test out of everything.

 

I would be very cautious if the student had academic goals beyond "finish the bachelor's and get a job".

[MomsintheGarden]

Great points, Lori and Kiana! I have thought a lot about distance learning degrees, have watched others complete the process, and have the same thoughts, especially...

 

 

This has been my big question mark about these type of degrees as well. I wonder if it is a function of a poor economy and that degree would not be that helpful anyways, where ever it was earned -- or, if it is partially due to the way it is earned and has no GPA that makes it less accepted...?

Exactly. These young people have graduated into a different world than we have, a much harsher, more competitive one. Plus they may have different goals than we did. It is really hard to compare. All we can do is try our best to figure out if this option is a good fit for our students.

 

She was REALLY burned out on school and academics after such a big push; and honestly, her experience as a high-performing swimmer would have landed her just as many jobs as a swim coach -- the degree has not done anything for her as of yet.

My one niece was incredibly burned out as well. The burnout can be limiting, causing a great student to forgo further academics for a long while or forever.

 

The young lady who will finish at the end of this summer plans to take a year and do medical missions to see if she really does want to go to med school or not, so we'll see how her degree works out. The third young lady is too early in the process to know how that might turn out.

Please keep us posted on how things turn out for them. I feel we are in a state of transition concerning distance learning, and I am especially interested in if the one young lady is able to be admitted to med school.

 

Just musing aloud here...

Great! I think we all need to muse!

 

a bare minimum degree in the subject. While that is enough to get a B.A., it may not be enough to continue if the student so desires. For example, someone who had studied mathematics with them would probably not be prepared to continue to graduate school without a post-graduate year, for which they would likely not get funding (they do not appear to have analysis or abstract algebra courses). I am not really qualified to speak on their other courses.

 

For many graduate schools, the issue is not "can the student get admitted" but "can the student get funding". There are very few graduate programs which I would say would be advisable to follow without funding, and every one of them is vocational (for example, master's in nursing). Graduate school admissions (in academic programs) relies heavily on letters of reference from professors who are familiar with the academic work of the student, and it's going to be much more difficult to get that in a degree program where the goal seems to be to test out of everything.

 

I would be very cautious if the student had academic goals beyond "finish the bachelor's and get a job". Yes, I do believe it would be very difficult to obtain a funded graduate assistantship with a distance degree. Some majors do not have funding for master's programs, though, and I have heard of several distance degreed students attending law school. I do not think distance learning works for math, science, or engineering degrees. The exception is perhaps for an IT-type computer science diploma.

[supermom]

I decided to do the research and plan out my sons 4 year Bachelor degree in Social Science plan throught Thomas Edison State College. He is only 17 and has 81 credits now and is on target to graduate later this year. It really was not that hard to do. I had a ton of questions which I got answered through a forum where many other people are doing this and have done it already. www.instantcert.com . I am pretty confident we have it all planned out correctly becuase all his tests are equivalent to the requirements which TESC has laid out for this degree. There are only 3 degrees, to my understanding, which can be completely tested out of and those are Psychology, Liberal Arts, and Social Sciences. Even with Social Sciences, TESC requires him to take a capstone course with them...the very last course. While I understand a degree in Social Sciences may not be the most in demand degree for employers, it actually lines up perfecly with my son's interests (history, political science, economics). What can it hurt to have a 4 year degree when he turns 18 this summer? Also, if he decides he wants to get a degree in something else later on, he can get his masters. To us, we are just thrilled he will have his bachelors degree with zero college debt. I am more than happy to talk to anyone about this further if you need a little help making your own plan.

[Lori D.]

Great! Keep us updated how that turns out. BEST of luck! Warmly, Lori D.