New Tapestry of Grace Policy

[shanvan]

Have you seen the new policy for buying SAP packs and other supplemental materials? If your year plan was not purchased directly from TOG, you will be paying significantly more if you want those materials. Just an FYI

 

 

http://www.tapestryofgrace.com/company/newsletter.php

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Have you seen the new policy for buying SAP packs and other supplemental materials? If your year plan was not purchased directly from TOG, you will be paying significantly more if you want those materials. Just an FYI

 

 

http://www.tapestryo.../newsletter.php

 

This makes sense to me when I read TOG's statement:

 

"New policies concerning direct and indirect sales of Tapestry supplements and support items

 

In 2011, we had the bright idea of offering to existing Tapestry customers a new product: SAPpacks. We wanted to help busy moms save time, wear and tear on their home printers, and ink/paper costs by printing (in the customer's choice of black & white or color) full sets of our Student Activity Pages. We sell these by the learning level, with different price points for lower-grammar, upper-grammar, dialectic, and rhetoric.

These have proven to be very popular aids, so we want to expand the idea and produce MAPpacks (convenience copies of all of the student maps in MapAids), EVALpacks (printed copies of the student pages of Evaluations), and (as we're bringing to market beginning March 1) the newly completed Poetics in book format. In 2014, we also look forward to producing much-asked-for gridded Weekly Lesson Plans derived from our week-plans, and a Memory Module to aid parents who want their young children to memorize key dates and facts. We see these convenience and supplemental products as aids to you, and not profit centers. We do not want to charge high prices to those who buy Tapestry directly from us. Our problem is that, if we make these products inexpensively available to the general public, we undersell ourselves so much that we cannot sustain our company.

Another unbalanced drain on our company's resource (and a growing issue of similarly underselling ourselves) has been the lack of distinction in support services that we offer to both direct and indirect buyers. Thus, our new policy distinguishes between "direct" and "indirect" customers."

[AngelBee]

It is a steep difference though. It doesn't effect me as I will own DE of all four years, but it does concern my that it makes them look like they are trying to pull profit everywhere they can....even if that hurts customers.

 

This hurts families who can not afford to use TOG. Families who blog wonderful things about TOG, contribute to forum conversations about TOG, and give positive reviews about TOG.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

We do not want to charge high prices to those who buy Tapestry directly from us. Our problem is that, if we make these products inexpensively available to the general public, we undersell ourselves so much that we cannot sustain our company.

 

Perhaps those buying TOG used can look at that as their savings instead of feeling cheated for not receiving the customer discount on new materials. I am amazed that they are going to be offering the Poetics book to anyone at all for $20! It's certainly worth more. Also, the student pages, maps, and evaluations are worthless apart from the TOG curriculum, so it makes sense that TOG sees them as supplemental aids for their customers and not for the general market. But they will make them available for those who want them, just not at the low price that appears to me to only cover expenses.

 

TOG has the right to make a profit and stay in business. They are not a charity.

[shanvan]

We do not want to charge high prices to those who buy Tapestry directly from us. Our problem is that, if we make these products inexpensively available to the general public, we undersell ourselves so much that we cannot sustain our company.

 

 

TOG has the right to make a profit and stay in business. They are not a charity.

 

 

I can't agree with the wording here....I agree that they have a right to attempt to make a profit. If people get fed up with their policies and stop buying/using TOG then they aren't going to make a profit. Aside from that, I'd really need to see their books before I believe they need to hike up prices that much.

 

I know others have had a different experience, but my costumer service experiences with them have not been stellar.

 

I do agree that the offering for Poetics is reasonable.

[Kipling]

I think their new policies are going to affect the overall resale value of TOG materials. For example, people who buy used copies will no longer have access to the archived pages in the book update charts unless they buy a yearly subscription for $85/year.

 

Also, they made a change a few months ago to their DE upgrade policy. Formerly, anyone who bought a print copy (new or used) could upgrade to DE for $35 (had to mail in their Loom disc). Now, only those who buy print copies new from TOG can upgrade to DE later for $35. For those people who buy used, you can upgrade one year plan for $35; if you want to upgrade any other used year plans to DE, it will cost the price of a new DE program. Unfortunately, I have bought used print copies in the past with the intention of upgrading to DE the second time I go through the cycle. I was counting on that $35. Now, the copies that I bought used are going to cost me a lot more in the long run. I'm bummed about that (and bummed that I apparently missed the grace period to upgrade all my copies back in August or September).

 

It's their company, and they can change their policies; as others have said, they have the right to make a profit. I'm not arguing that. However, the resale value of TOG products has been a great selling feature of the product - if you didn't like it, you could resell it and recoup a lot of your money. As people realize the new limitations of a used copy, the resale value will drop.

[shanvan]

I think their new policies are going to affect the overall resale value of TOG materials. For example, people who buy used copies will no longer have access to the archived pages in the book update charts unless they buy a yearly subscription for $85/year.

 

Also, they made a change a few months ago to their DE upgrade policy. Formerly, anyone who bought a print copy (new or used) could upgrade to DE for $35 (had to mail in their Loom disc). Now, only those who buy print copies new from TOG can upgrade to DE later for $35. For those people who buy used, you can upgrade one year plan for $35; if you want to upgrade any other used year plans to DE, it will cost the price of a new DE program. Unfortunately, I have bought used print copies in the past with the intention of upgrading to DE the second time I go through the cycle. I was counting on that $35. Now, the copies that I bought used are going to cost me a lot more in the long run. I'm bummed about that (and bummed that I apparently missed the grace period to upgrade all my copies back in August or September).

 

It's their company, and they can change their policies; as others have said, they have the right to make a profit. I'm not arguing that. However, the resale value of TOG products has been a great selling feature of the product - if you didn't like it, you could resell it and recoup a lot of your money. As people realize the new limitations of a used copy, the resale value will drop.

 

 

Very good points. I missed all the changes about upgrade to DE, so I'm stuck with 2 used print year plans too.

[melmichigan]

I can't agree with the wording here....I agree that they have a right to attempt to make a profit.

 

I don't quite understand what you mean, these are convenience materials, things that are already included in your year plan, either DE, or print, at least when speaking of the SAP, the others like mapaids and evaluations you purchased and have the rights to print. These are available if you don't want to print your own from DE, or make copies from your print.

 

As for the unlimited book updates, I can see where those who bought used print might look poorly upon it, but those of us who bought from the company are supporting the work that went into those updates. It isn't necessary to the use of the program, but now you aren't getting any freebies along with the used program. When you buy SL and they update the books, you buy another IG, I don't think this is any different. The big marketing advantage to DE is that you get all the free updates, you give up the right to sell your year plan for that right. Now we are just beginning to see that cascade down. Now you can't save money buying used and expect what others pay for.

[shanvan]

I don't quite understand what you mean, these are convenience materials, things that are already included in your year plan, either DE, or print, at least when speaking of the SAP, the others like mapaids and evaluations you purchased and have the rights to print. These are available if you don't want to print your own from DE, or make copies from your print.

 

 

All I meant is that no one can go into business thinking that they have a right to make a profit. It's not guaranteed. Many businesses fail b/c they can't make a profit. Your profit depends on your sales and other factors--it's not an automatic right you get just b/c you went into business. You can say they have a 'right' to price items as they see fit, but that doesn't mean people will pay that price. I'm being picky about wording, I know.

 

Yes, the items they are selling separately are convenience items. I do have the loom and, yes, I can print all that stuff, but it's a giant pain. For 2 of my print plans, which are used, I will now have to pay those astronomical prices if I want the SAP pages, which save me time. Yes, Sonlight has similar policies, and many people have stopped using Sonlight b/c of their policies. Of course TOG has a right to change their policies, put their prices up, whatever they want. Consumers have a right to shop elsewhere too. We'll have to see if it works in their favor or not. There are a lot of people out there with used year plans. As mentioned, this policy may affect re-sale value too.

[melmichigan]

 

 

All I meant is that no one can go into business thinking that they have a right to make a profit. It's not guaranteed. Many businesses fail b/c they can't make a profit. Your profit depends on your sales and other factors--it's not an automatic right you get just b/c you went into business. You can say they have a 'right' to price items as they see fit, but that doesn't mean people will pay that price. I'm being picky about wording, I know.

 

Yes, the items they are selling separately are convenience items. I do have the loom and, yes, I can print all that stuff, but it's a giant pain. For 2 of my print plans, which are used, I will now have to pay those astronomical prices if I want the SAP pages, which save me time. Yes, Sonlight has similar policies, and many people have stopped using Sonlight b/c of their policies. Of course TOG has a right to change their policies, put their prices up, whatever they want. Consumers have a right to shop elsewhere too. We'll have to see if it works in their favor or not. There are a lot of people out there with used year plans. As mentioned, this policy may affect re-sale value too.

 

 

Thanks for explaining what you ment. :).

 

There are a lot of changes coming to the year plans this year, eliminating the Norton Anthology will be big, and changes to Y1 are very significant. It will be interesting to see how those changes pan out for the company, and how they impact the used market. I actually like that the are moving more toward WTM with whole works.

[besroma]

Thanks for the updates. I had also planned to upgrade to DE on a used printed copy. Bummer.

 

I better upgrade the one I bought directly from them before something else changes!

[Guest]

Thanks for explaining what you ment. :).

 

There are a lot of changes coming to the year plans this year, eliminating the Norton Anthology will be big, and changes to Y1 are very significant. It will be interesting to see how those changes pan out for the company, and how they impact the used market. I actually like that the are moving more toward WTM with whole works.

 

 

Can you elaborate on what's changed in Y1? I stopped looking at TOG awhile back (I originally loved and swore we'd use it!) and I occasionally dream about using it. They've made SO many changes in the last few years, though, I'm curious to hear what they've changed now? I thought Y1 was just recently re-done? (like last 4-5 years?)

[besroma]

It looks like you can upgrade one "year-plan" to DE if purchased used:

 

http://www.tapestryofgrace.com/policies.php

 

 

[besroma]

 

 

Can you elaborate on what's changed in Y1? I stopped looking at TOG awhile back (I originally loved and swore we'd use it!) and I occasionally dream about using it. They've made SO many changes in the last few years, though, I'm curious to hear what they've changed now? I thought Y1 was just recently re-done? (like last 4-5 years?)

 

 

Until someone can elaborate, maybe this will help some:

 

http://tapestryofgrace.com/community/editiondifferences.php

[Guest]

Until someone can elaborate, maybe this will help some:

 

http://tapestryofgra...differences.php

 

 

That's very helpful! Thanks!

[melmichigan]

 

 

Can you elaborate on what's changed in Y1? I stopped looking at TOG awhile back (I originally loved and swore we'd use it!) and I occasionally dream about using it. They've made SO many changes in the last few years, though, I'm curious to hear what they've changed now? I thought Y1 was just recently re-done? (like last 4-5 years?)

 

The link in the above post helps explain. It's also been talked about in the monthly newsletters. I was actually considering moving away from TOG next year for U1-3, now I will wait until the new version comes out before I make a decision.

[AngelBee]

It looks like most of the changes are to Rhetoric level and to update out of print books.

[NASDAQ]

If TAG (which I do not use and I have no dog in this fight) can't make a profit, the company will collapse and go away, and there will be no TAG for anyone.