Hunter, or anyone else, can you help me teach math?

[A home for their hearts]

I have finally decided that I just can not teach math. I am really holding my dc back in this subject. We are trying Miquon and Singapore this year, both approaches are foreign to me but I love have they are conceptually based. I'm ok at math but I have a really hard time teaching it. I thought using Miquon with C-Rods would help my dc but they are still struggling. I don't want to teach them using the tradition method but I feel like that is the only approach I can actually teach. Help! What should I do!?

[blondeviolin]

Do you have the HIG for Singapore? I've not seen the others, but the Standards HIG breaks down many concepts for the teacher.

 

For Miquon, the First Grade Diary will kind of give you a feel for how things are taught. Also, check out Education Unboxed videos.

 

You might also consider Math Mammoth, which is written to the student and fairly cheap.

 

Right Start is expensive, but is totally scripted.

[besroma]

I agree with everything blondeviolin said.

 

I would try Rosie's videos first, then try RightStart.

[A home for their hearts]

Do you have the HIG for Singapore? I've not seen the others, but the Standards HIG breaks down many concepts for the teacher.

 

For Miquon, the First Grade Diary will kind of give you a feel for how things are taught. Also, check out Education Unboxed videos.

 

You might also consider Math Mammoth, which is written to the student and fairly cheap.

 

Right Start is expensive, but is totally scripted.

I do have the HIG and sometimes it helps and sometimes it doesn't. The problem we are running into with singapore is since we didn't start at the beginning we are running into new ways of learning that are assumed the student already knows. For example, number bonds. Singapore it a really different way of thinking about math one my dc aren't used to so it's really stumps them. I placed them in 3A, I would hate to have to go all the way back to the beginning just so that they 'get' this new appoarch.

 

I do have the First Grade Diary, it has helped some but not a lot. I've also looked at Education Unboxed videos. All of this combined is just becoming too overwhelming for me!

 

We tried a RightStart a couple of years ago and we ran into the same problem, my dc just didn't get that approach to math.

[Jess4879]

 

You might also consider Math Mammoth, which is written to the student and fairly cheap.

 

 

:iagree:

 

We used a lot of supplemental units last year for my DD9 and finally switched over entirely this year. We are also using it with my 6 year old and they are both loving it. Math has never been my strong suit and I love that MM lays it all out, but doesn't overscript (like Saxon and RS -- not to say either is bad, but they drove both myself and my kids nuts - not a good fit here!) MM is very open and go and the lessons don't take forever to get through.

[WishboneDawn]

I have finally decided that I just can not teach math. I am really holding my dc back in this subject. We are trying Miquon and Singapore this year, both approaches are foreign to me but I love have they are conceptually based. I'm ok at math but I have a really hard time teaching it. I thought using Miquon with C-Rods would help my dc but they are still struggling. I don't want to teach them using the tradition method but I feel like that is the only approach I can actually teach. Help! What should I do!?

 

 

Why not teach them the traditional method? You know it, you're comfortable with it - that alone might help them. I'd try that before rushing to buy another program.

 

I may step on a few toes but I think teaching traditional algorithms before conceptual understanding isn't such a bad thing. For some kids, it can actually help them get the concepts, they need to see the algorithm working and be easy with it before all the stuff behind starts to make sense.

 

What's bad is when the traditional methods are taught with no attention paid to concepts but there's nothing wrong with the traditional methods in and of themselves.

[A home for their hearts]

:iagree:

 

We used a lot of supplemental units last year for my DD9 and finally switched over entirely this year. We are also using it with my 6 year old and they are both loving it. Math has never been my strong suit and I love that MM lays it all out, but doesn't overscript (like Saxon and RS -- not to say either is bad, but they drove both myself and my kids nuts - not a good fit here!) MM is very open and go and the lessons don't take forever to get through.

We tried MM and it just didn't work. I do have the blue series downloaded so maybe I will add in some sheets as supplemental. The thing that is frustrating me is that I can't find the unit on Fractions! I'm wondering if she left this unit out of the blue level?

 

Why not teach them the traditional method? You know it, you're comfortable with it - that alone might help them. I'd try that before rushing to buy another program.

 

I may step on a few toes but I think teaching traditional algorithms before conceptual understanding isn't such a bad thing. For some kids, it can actually help them get the concepts, they need to see the algorithm working and be easy with it before all the stuff behind starts to make sense.

 

What's bad is when the traditional methods are taught with no attention paid to concepts but there's nothing wrong with the traditional methods in and of themselves.

 

Thanks for giving me the permission to teach the way I understand best! I think I am really confusing my dc though going back and forth. I just need to pick a method and stick with it!

 

WendyK, I think you are right, I do need to sit down and figure the lessons out before I teach it. My dc are actually doing better with Miquon than with Singapore, maybe I just need to drop Singapore. I added it in because I was afraid Miquon wasn't enough, but maybe I need to let it be enough.. I do have Kitchen Table Math, the first book. It hasn't been that big of a help to me yet, I wish there were more explenations in it then there are.

 

Are there any other books that would help me understand math?

 

 

Thanks everyone! You are all really appreciated!

[Walking-Iris]

I love Miquon and worked through the whole series with my oldest. You also would benefit from having the Lab Sheet Annotations.

 

MEP is free online and an inexpensive way to supplement Miquon. I balanced the conceptual of Miquon by giving my ds some inexpensive Kumon books for extra practice and drill. There's not enough practice in mIquon imo, so it needs supplement.

[Jess4879]

We tried MM and it just didn't work. I do have the blue series downloaded so maybe I will add in some sheets as supplemental. The thing that is frustrating me is that I can't find the unit on Fractions! I'm wondering if she left this unit out of the blue level?

 

You can email and ask. She is awesome and very helpful! Definitely go with what works though! We have been in this boat and had to experiment a bit too until we found what worked for us.

[Hunter]

Learning math can be like learning to bake bread. Can you imagine getting a lesson in fungi reproduction before even seeing a loaf of bread, or actually having seen dough rise? It would all go right over your head and be tortuously boring. To bake artisan wholegrain sourdough bread you need to understand the basics of yeast reproduction, but not to bake a regular loaf of white bread with an easy recipe. Cookbook recipes and cookbook math are useful things. Some people need to START with cookbooks, and for some that is as far as they need to go. Not everyone needs or wants to master artisan sourdough bread-making, and not everyone needs or wants to become a mathematician.

 

As well as dealing with conceptual learning, there is also the choice about how WIDE you want to teach math. I taught a pretty wide list of topics to my younger son, but a pretty narrow list to my older son. The list of topics I teach to my remedial students is ultra narrow. Professor B is a unique curriculum in that it is conceptual, but narrow. It's not so easy to teach, if you are a visual and/or workbook type of teacher. I struggle with it. I haven't found anything I'm certain enough of, to justify buying any more curriculum though, so I'm muddling through, for now.

 

If I had a captive audience, that I could daily force butt into chair, I'd probably be using Saxon right now. It's wider than I would like, but it fits my teaching style. I believe in teaching students to READ math books, and Saxon is a curriculum that students can learn to READ. As a young stupid mom back in the 90's, my 10 year old and I parked ourselves in chairs for a couple hours a day and we taught ourselves Algebra with Saxon Algebra 1 and 2 second editions, with no CDs or solution manuals. We READ the books. We did the problems. We checked our answers. We redid the ones we got wrong. We played around with some curricula, but always went back to Saxon. As for calculus, Saxon was the ONLY book I was able to use.

 

I really had a tough time figuring out what to do with my younger son. The more I accomplished with him, the more people told me he "deserved better". I was a BAD mom when I used Saxon and American School, they said. At times I tried to give him what he "deserved" but he learned less during those periods, and I was a mess. He learned the most when I was setting smaller goals and when we were studying religion and character more than academics.

 

And with my older, the decisions were easier, but the guilt was just as bad. My boys were raised in domestic abuse and taught that I was an expendable subspecies. At 14 my older son outweighed me by more than 100 pounds and thought I was religious idiot and fought me HARD about everything but math especially. He was willing to WORK hard though, so I let him work. I never got him through algebra 1 and he slickly got through community college without taking any math by taking advantage of a loophole he uncovered. At 26, he's been married for 2 years and continually wins enough bonuses working for a Fortune 500 company to have built a house and live comfortably. So, he's doing fine, having mastered basic math and basic accounting, and some very elementary algebra.

 

Math fears can ruin a homeschool. Math is a tool, not a religion or a savior. We each have our favorite tools to do the work we were designed to do. All some people need is some very basic cookbook math tools to get things done. And if we try to force more on them, we distract them from collecting and mastering the tools they really need.

 

My younger gifted son figured out all the concepts on his own, without being taught them. My average son didn't even need them. And when I wasn't stressing out about math, I had time to cook and clean and keep the domestic abuse a little more under control, so I could get those boys raised, financially independent, and safe.

 

My mother-in-law used to pat my younger son on the head, smile and say "pretty" when she saw what he was working on. You know, I think she had something there. Sometimes all those pages and pages and pages of math scrawl are little more than art. Not EVERYONE needs to fill up a sketchbook or learn advanced maths.

 

Our country is in the Cold War mindset again about maths and sciences. Not every child is meant to be a soldier to combat this current "threat". And not every mom is meant to teach to that "threat".

[Cynful]

Hunter, THANK YOU!! This was just what I needed today.

[A home for their hearts]

Learning math can be like learning to bake bread. Can you imagine getting a lesson in fungi reproduction before even seeing a loaf of bread, or actually having seen dough rise? It would all go right over your head and be tortuously boring. To bake artisan wholegrain sourdough bread you need to understand the basics of yeast reproduction, but not to bake a regular loaf of white bread with an easy recipe. Cookbook recipes and cookbook math are useful things. Some people need to START with cookbooks, and for some that is as far as they need to go. Not everyone needs or wants to master artisan sourdough bread-making, and not everyone needs or wants to become a mathematician.

 

As well as dealing with conceptual learning, there is also the choice about how WIDE you want to teach math. I taught a pretty wide list of topics to my younger son, but a pretty narrow list to my older son. The list of topics I teach to my remedial students is ultra narrow. Professor B is a unique curriculum in that it is conceptual, but narrow. It's not so easy to teach, if you are a visual and/or workbook type of teacher. I struggle with it. I haven't found anything I'm certain enough of, to justify buying any more curriculum though, so I'm muddling through, for now.

 

If I had a captive audience, that I could daily force butt into chair, I'd probably be using Saxon right now. It's wider than I would like, but it fits my teaching style. I believe in teaching students to READ math books, and Saxon is a curriculum that students can learn to READ. As a young stupid mom back in the 90's, my 10 year old and I parked ourselves in chairs for a couple hours a day and we taught ourselves Algebra with Saxon Algebra 1 and 2 second editions, with no CDs or solution manuals. We READ the books. We did the problems. We checked our answers. We redid the ones we got wrong. We played around with some curricula, but always went back to Saxon. As for calculus, Saxon was the ONLY book I was able to use.

 

I really had a tough time figuring out what to do with my younger son. The more I accomplished with him, the more people told me he "deserved better". I was a BAD mom when I used Saxon and American School, they said. At times I tried to give him what he "deserved" but he learned less during those periods, and I was a mess. He learned the most when I was setting smaller goals and when we were studying religion and character more than academics.

 

And with my older, the decisions were easier, but the guilt was just as bad. My boys were raised in domestic abuse and taught that I was an expendable subspecies. At 14 my older son outweighed me by more than 100 pounds and thought I was religious idiot and fought me HARD about everything but math especially. He was willing to WORK hard though, so I let him work. I never got him through algebra 1 and he slickly got through community college without taking any math by taking advantage of a loophole he uncovered. At 26, he's been married for 2 years and continually wins enough bonuses working for a Fortune 500 company to have built a house and live comfortably. So, he's doing fine, having mastered basic math and basic accounting, and some very elementary algebra.

 

Math fears can ruin a homeschool. Math is a tool, not a religion or a savior. We each have our favorite tools to do the work we were designed to do. All some people need is some very basic cookbook math tools to get things done. And if we try to force more on them, we distract them from collecting and mastering the tools they really need.

 

My younger gifted son figured out all the concepts on his own, without being taught them. My average son didn't even need them. And when I wasn't stressing out about math, I had time to cook and clean and keep the domestic abuse a little more under control, so I could get those boys raised, financially independent, and safe.

 

My mother-in-law used to pat my younger son on the head, smile and say "pretty" when she saw what he was working on. You know, I think she had something there. Sometimes all those pages and pages and pages of math scrawl are little more than art. Not EVERYONE needs to fill up a sketchbook or learn advanced maths.

 

Our country is in the Cold War mindset again about maths and sciences. Not every child is meant to be a soldier to combat this current "threat". And not every mom is meant to teach to that "threat".

 

 

Hunter, thank you so much for your wisdom, I knew you would calm my nerves. I have finally found a curriculum for spelling/reading that I can teach and my older two are actually learning from (LOE) but it doesn't seem to matter what math we use for math it's a struggle for all of us. We've hopped around so much I think we are all dizzy! I've never used Saxon, I've looked at samples but I've never made the jump. The main reason is because I fear it would be too much writing, especially for my ds11 who I believe to be dysgraphic. I like the idea of them being able to learn how to read a math book and actually learn from it. I'm afraid Miquon and Singapore may be confusing them even more. Sometimes they seem to get it with Miquon, but on days like today, they struggle. We were learning fractions with the C-rods and I could see the plane circling around their heads, I'm not sure if it landed. We put it up for today and will try again tomorrow.

[Walking-Iris]

Math was not my oldest son's strong subject and he struggled at times with Miquon. But I stuck with it and now he is flying through his math and for the most part working independently. Like I said above---you need to have Lab Sheet Annotations for Miquon. They explain the sheets and offer extra activities. I faithfully worked out every single extra activity in each section while we were doing those sheets. It stretched the lessons out and took them out of the realm of workbook for one thing, and it made concrete what was on the page. Fractions for example: you wouldn't rely on c-rods alone, but follow the advice in Annotations to construct fraction manipulatives. Miquon also builds on to itself. IMHO you're not expecting mastery with Miquon, you're building a conceptual foundation for deeper learning.

 

Also my ds is doing Saxon 5/4 this year and I haven't found it to be a lot of writing. I scan the page each morning and allow him to answer me orally if that's a possibility and I also allow him to just write the answer. Very few of the problems so far I he has had to write out the whole thing and show his work. We read or scan through the lesson together and then he does all the work on his own. I'm just there for help if he needs it. So far this year he has only asked help clarifying directions. But the math he's done completely on his own with few mistakes. It had always been my plan to use Miquon with supplement and then to move into Saxon. I really feel that Miquon helped him understand the conceptual and prepare to be independent. I did every problem, every day with him in those early grades.

 

We try to read as much from the Living Math booklists as possible and I've started letting him self pace with the Key To books. Add a simple logic style activity book and some games and real world practice and that is as much math as I feel is necessary. My Kinder i plan to follow the same outline, although I'm going to supplement him with MEP online.

 

I'm a big advocate of finding a math program spine plus main supplement and sticking with it. Jumping around will cause confusion.

 

 

[A home for their hearts]

Math was not my oldest son's strong subject and he struggled at times with Miquon. But I stuck with it and now he is flying through his math and for the most part working independently. Like I said above---you need to have Lab Sheet Annotations for Miquon. They explain the sheets and offer extra activities. I faithfully worked out every single extra activity in each section while we were doing those sheets. It stretched the lessons out and took them out of the realm of workbook for one thing, and it made concrete what was on the page. Fractions for example: you wouldn't rely on c-rods alone, but follow the advice in Annotations to construct fraction manipulatives. Miquon also builds on to itself. IMHO you're not expecting mastery with Miquon, you're building a conceptual foundation for deeper learning.

 

Also my ds is doing Saxon 5/4 this year and I haven't found it to be a lot of writing. I scan the page each morning and allow him to answer me orally if that's a possibility and I also allow him to just write the answer. Very few of the problems so far I he has had to write out the whole thing and show his work. We read or scan through the lesson together and then he does all the work on his own. I'm just there for help if he needs it. So far this year he has only asked help clarifying directions. But the math he's done completely on his own with few mistakes. It had always been my plan to use Miquon with supplement and then to move into Saxon. I really feel that Miquon helped him understand the conceptual and prepare to be independent. I did every problem, every day with him in those early grades.

 

We try to read as much from the Living Math booklists as possible and I've started letting him self pace with the Key To books. Add a simple logic style activity book and some games and real world practice and that is as much math as I feel is necessary. My Kinder i plan to follow the same outline, although I'm going to supplement him with MEP online.

 

I'm a big advocate of finding a math program spine plus main supplement and sticking with it. Jumping around will cause confusion.

 

I do have the Lab Sheet Annotations. Sometimes it helps me, other times I want to throw the book across the room. I reall wish they gave the answers to all the pages. I do do the activities with them first before moving on to a worksheet. One problem we had yesterday was with the snowman fractions. Page H-8, has 9 snowmen on it, it says 1/4 of the snowmen have wigs, so 2 out of the 8 have wigs, you have to put legs on 1/4 of the snowmen. Well, this really throw my dc off, because they learned that 1/4 means 1 out of 4 so how would that apply to 8? There was no explanation for this in the Lab Sheet Annotations, or the first grade diary, and no answers marked in LSA. I understood it, but I couldn't figure out how to explain it to my dc. I was also confused as to how it went from learning, I guess, simple fractions, to a fraction where the numbers don't match up with the pictures. does that make sense? I looked all through the fraction section and couldn't find and explanations for this or how to teach it. this is the part where my lack on math knowledge and lack of explanations in the book can send the book airborne!

 

I don't want to keep bouncing aroudn so I am determined to work through Miquon. Maybe I need to start posting questions here and let people help me!

 

Glad to hear Saxon has gone well for you. Maybe once we've finished with Miquon we will move unto Saxon.

[Walking-Iris]

I remember that exercise. You teach/show your children how to divide those snowmen into equal sets. If they understand that fractional parts *have* to be equal, then it can be done. So for 1/4 of 8 you have them actually circle those snowmen into 4 equal groups. So there would be two snowmen in each circle. You also explain that the "bottom number tells how many groups we have" 4 and "the top number tells how many we are talking about." there are 2 in 1 group. So we have 4 equal groups of snowmen, and we want 1 of them. How many are in one group? 2 There's no need to make it a purely mental math exercise or to use the words numerator/ denominator yet. If they can't begin to make equal groups out of them then back off and work on that skill.

 

If 1/4 of the snowmen have legs---that would still be two snowmen with legs. You're counting snowmen, not legs. If you had 8 snowmen and 1/2 of them had hats for example. You would show your child how to divide that group into 2 equal parts---so there would be 4 snowmen in each circle. 1/2 of 8 would be 4. 1/8 of 8 would be 1.

 

Miquon builds on this concept of fractions because it helps them multiply and divide. I would suggest getting countables---little toys etc and showing them how to divide those into various equal fractional groups. Make yourself some fraction circles, use FractionStax or a fraction board game, use Key To fractions with your older kids. Eventually the goal will be that they can tell you 1/4 x 8 is 2 quickly because they have worked with actually dividing real objects. That will help them understand multiplication and division.

 

I understand. There were times I was frustrated with the Lab book, but I persevered and changed things if I needed too. The beauty of Miquon is integrating everything to show the connections. Fractions is not a separate thing from mult or division or adding or subtracting; it's all inter-connected.

[A home for their hearts]

I remember that exercise. You teach/show your children how to divide those snowmen into equal sets. If they understand that fractional parts *have* to be equal, then it can be done. So for 1/4 of 8 you have them actually circle those snowmen into 4 equal groups. So there would be two snowmen in each circle. You also explain that the "bottom number tells how many groups we have" 4 and "the top number tells how many we are talking about." there are 2 in 1 group. So we have 4 equal groups of snowmen, and we want 1 of them. How many are in one group? 2 There's no need to make it a purely mental math exercise or to use the words numerator/ denominator yet. If they can't begin to make equal groups out of them then back off and work on that skill.

 

If 1/4 of the snowmen have legs---that would still be two snowmen with legs. You're counting snowmen, not legs. If you had 8 snowmen and 1/2 of them had hats for example. You would show your child how to divide that group into 2 equal parts---so there would be 4 snowmen in each circle. 1/2 of 8 would be 4. 1/8 of 8 would be 1.

 

Miquon builds on this concept of fractions because it helps them multiply and divide. I would suggest getting countables---little toys etc and showing them how to divide those into various equal fractional groups. Make yourself some fraction circles, use FractionStax or a fraction board game, use Key To fractions with your older kids. Eventually the goal will be that they can tell you 1/4 x 8 is 2 quickly because they have worked with actually dividing real objects. That will help them understand multiplication and division.

 

I understand. There were times I was frustrated with the Lab book, but I persevered and changed things if I needed too. The beauty of Miquon is integrating everything to show the connections. Fractions is not a separate thing from mult or division or adding or subtracting; it's all inter-connected.

 

Thanks you for this, it really helped. I think this is why I struggle with Miquon, it assumes that they teacher knows math well enough to teach it without much explanation. I love the idea of Miquon, I just don't know if I can make it work for my family.

[blondeviolin]

I remember that exercise. You teach/show your children how to divide those snowmen into equal sets. If they understand that fractional parts *have* to be equal, then it can be done. So for 1/4 of 8 you have them actually circle those snowmen into 4 equal groups. So there would be two snowmen in each circle. You also explain that the "bottom number tells how many groups we have" 4 and "the top number tells how many we are talking about." there are 2 in 1 group. So we have 4 equal groups of snowmen, and we want 1 of them. How many are in one group? 2 There's no need to make it a purely mental math exercise or to use the words numerator/ denominator yet. If they can't begin to make equal groups out of them then back off and work on that skill.

 

If 1/4 of the snowmen have legs---that would still be two snowmen with legs. You're counting snowmen, not legs. If you had 8 snowmen and 1/2 of them had hats for example. You would show your child how to divide that group into 2 equal parts---so there would be 4 snowmen in each circle. 1/2 of 8 would be 4. 1/8 of 8 would be 1.

 

Miquon builds on this concept of fractions because it helps them multiply and divide. I would suggest getting countables---little toys etc and showing them how to divide those into various equal fractional groups. Make yourself some fraction circles, use FractionStax or a fraction board game, use Key To fractions with your older kids. Eventually the goal will be that they can tell you 1/4 x 8 is 2 quickly because they have worked with actually dividing real objects. That will help them understand multiplication and division.

 

I understand. There were times I was frustrated with the Lab book, but I persevered and changed things if I needed too. The beauty of Miquon is integrating everything to show the connections. Fractions is not a separate thing from mult or division or adding or subtracting; it's all inter-connected.

 

Sometimes with these problems I had my child the sheet and see how THEY puzzle through it. It's designed as a math lab and this kind of puzzling through helps them own the conceptual solution they find.

 

PP gave one good way of completing it. My oldest, though, reasoned that 1 out of 4 had wigs. And because there were 2 fours in 8, then it was 1 two times, which was 2. Her method (splitting her number into fours and taking 1 out of each group) was mathematically sound.

 

She loved those fraction books, but hated hen I tried to direct her on what she should do.

[Hunter]

Thanks you for this, it really helped. I think this is why I struggle with Miquon, it assumes that they teacher knows math well enough to teach it without much explanation. I love the idea of Miquon, I just don't know if I can make it work for my family.

 

Another curriculum to look at is the Amish Study Time Arithmetic. It is workbooks, so it is less writing for students. The reading is less than Saxon. Even though people complain that Saxon is not conceptual, that just isn't true. It just isn't ultra-conceptual. The reason the reading is so long in Saxon is that is IS explaining concepts. Study Time in comparison has a box at the top with a rule. Study Time was developed to be used by teenaged teachers with an 8th grade education.

 

I've known some students to do well with PACES math. The ungraded workbooks make it easier to have a child be a little behind schedule, if you need to, without rubbing their face in it. Again these were specifically developed for untrained teachers.

 

Both Study Time and PACES have a narrower scope than some other more popular curricula, but again are not as narrow as I prefer my spine to be.

 

I've been looking at Math on the Level for a couple years, but just cannot afford it. It's pretty teacher intensive and doesn't come with nearly enough problems, though. So you would have to collect problems elsewhere. Supposedly Kitchen Table math is similar with more hands on, and much cheaper.