MP package curriculum users: Can you answer some questions for me? (long)

[sarahv]

I am leaning toward using their material long term, and have some questions about how their material works.

 

Here is some background: I am a "follower" of LCC and CM style teaching. I really dislike having to fill out literature sheets for books read. I much prefer to just narrate. However, I look at Highland Latin School and find myself wanting my kids to be able to perform at that level educationally. So, those who use the curriculum packages, or just their LA materials even, can you tell me how you feel it went with your kids? I'm especially interested in those who did not start at the beginning.

 

Let me explain. My oldest kids are "going into" 2nd and 3rd grades. As I compare them to the MP LA materials, it is clear to me that they would not be able to handle the workload of MP's respective curriculum packages. In fact, I'd have to put them quite a ways back in order to have them working at their level. This is discouraging to me - but should it be? Level K is what I feel a 1st grader would normally be reading, and MP's 1st seems really advanced. Are your kids working at "grade level" in MP's curriculum?

 

As I look at the materials a little more closely, though, I can see how the literature guides seem to be language arts skills woven into the studying of the stories. Would you agree with this? I am concerned that if I keep on with a more relaxed CM approach that I am missing things. I mean, I use "this" spelling and "that" grammar, but I'm beginning to think that I should follow "the program" closer if I'm going to even be close to those amazing test scores that HLS's students have.

 

I'd love some comments from those who've used the materials. Have you used the language/literature/reading components of MP, and how do you feel it has been for your kids? Are they working at grade level? Are they able to do the work in a respectable amount of time? How time intensive is it for you? Especially with multiple kids? Do you feel that it is worth the extra effort and money for all those literature guides?

 

I hope this post is understandable. Thank you for reading and responding! I certainly appreciate your thoughts!!

 

Sarah

[Amy Jo]

I've only started using MP's materials, so I can't answer most of your questions. I decided we aren't going to use the literature guides. I might look at it for vocabulary, or even pull some ideas from it, but I'm not having the kids do the workbook. We will use the literature selections for the most part - I'll probably just pull from many resources to customize our study.

 

You might want to ask on MP's forums as well. Remember you aren't teaching a group like at Highlands Latin School - you are tutoring 1-on-1. I've seen Tanya say on the forum their packages are very advanced, and being 'behind' will still be a great education. (They read Homer in 7th, and start translating Latin in 8th!) Their guides are also only 33 weeks, so it would be easy to gradually catch up.

 

You mention test scores a lot - is that a big worry for you? What are your goals for your kids this year / in grammar school / overall? (That's what I (try) to come back to when I get confused.)

[4Hisglory]

We also are going to be using Memoria Press but haven't yet. I did glean from their forum (definitely check out their forum)that my 4th and 6th grade children can both do the 4th grade core with separate LA, math and spelling. They will both do Christian Studies II, Famous Men of Rome, Latin and the literature guides and books for level 4. I am using the literature guides because I feel that both of my dc will benefit from thnking critically while reading. I also hope they will read many other books for pure enjoyment outside of their assigned reading. I am buying the lesson plans but am doing some substituting. I may switch completely over next year, kind of waiting to see how this year goes.

[Clear Creek]

I am not sure how much help I will be since I haven't used it at the levels you are asking about (we are starting 3rd and 5th next month), but I will try to offer you some advice based on the 3rd grade TMs and what has been said on the MP forums. First, at the early levels your child should be able to slowly decode the books in the lit packages, but it is perfectly acceptable to take turns reading the selection or let your child read the first paragraph and you finish out the selection - the point is to practice reading aloud daily, not to torture or frustrate your child. And second, the lit workbooks are not meant to be completed in full - the TMs say to just do what you have time for and feel is necessary for the child, and up through at least the 3rd grade the child/class formulates an answer to one or two of the comprehension questions aloud, the teacher writes it on the board (using correct grammar and punctuation), and then the child copies it into the workbook. They are most definitely not supposed to go through the workbook and complete every page on their own; it is meant to be a guide to oral discussion and a chance to practice formulating/writing complete, correct sentences. And the classes at HLS don't ever get around to the extra activities, they are just there in case a homeschooling family has the time.

[Amy Jo]

First, at the early levels your child should be able to slowly decode the books in the lit packages, but it is perfectly acceptable to take turns reading the selection or let your child read the first paragraph and you finish out the selection - the point is to practice reading aloud daily, not to torture or frustrate your child.

 

I didn't know this - thank you very much for posting.

[mama25angels]

I will be doing the 3rd grade plans with a 4th grader next year and that is perfectly acceptable. We will do most of the lit. guides orally, we will do some writing just not as much as the guide calls for. I will also pick and choose the exercises he does. We will use Singapore math because that's what we've been using and it works for us for now.

[laughing lioness]

In fact, I'd have to put them quite a ways back in order to have them working at their level. This is discouraging to me - but should it be? NO. The point of an individualized education (homeschooling/ private tutoring)is to make it fit the individual. If you think your kiddo is behind due to a LD, that is a different issue, but for regular folks, just work at thier level. Everybody ebbs and flows at various ages and stages.

 

Level K is what I feel a 1st grader would normally be reading, and MP's 1st seems really advanced. Are your kids working at "grade level" in MP's curriculum? We'll be using parts of Core 6 for our rising 5th and 7th graders so it depends on your kid.

K/1rst grade is dicey because kids learn to de-code/ read at different ages. I've had an early reader that went from phonics to reading The Secret Garden and Heidi. My 9 yo has been able to read for 2 yrs. but something "clicked" this summer and she is reading everything in sight.

 

As I look at the materials a little more closely, though, I can see how the literature guides seem to be language arts skills woven into the studying of the stories. Would you agree with this? I am concerned that if I keep on with a more relaxed CM approach that I am missing things. I mean, I use "this" spelling and "that" grammar, but I'm beginning to think that I should follow "the program" closer if I'm going to even be close to those amazing test scores that HLS's students have.

I think it depends on how you approach "English". English is really a whole slew of stuff; literature, grammar, spelling, reading comprehension, writing (and therefore logic skills), etc. I think CM addresses these things. For me, however, as a global random thinker I appreciate and work better with a program like MP that is logical and sequential. The more I have going on, the more often I "lose" things/pieces of what I am doing- does that make sense? Iow, I think for folks who are very internally logic and sequential, using a methodology like CM, which is less externally structured, works. For those of us who are less internally structured (not that I don't have structure, but my structure is more like a venn diagram-lol) then external structure helps me get through stuff more efficiently. What I'm saying is that it's more about the teacher than the student, which ultimatly is about the student.

I've visited Highlands and talked with some of the good folks there- LOVE HLS! -they have created an incredible culture. While I use them as a reference,lots of their materials, learn from their mag, etc, I can't re-create what they have going on in my little house on the Praire---just be careful that you don't idealize something somewhere else and get so discouraged you give up on your real vision.

 

I'd love some comments from those who've used the materials. Have you used the language/literature/reading components of MP, and how do you feel it has been for your kids?

I used the Ancient lit guides for (now)ds 17, 3 yrs ago for ancient lit (beta guide). They were fantastic. We loved working through them, they drew out material we wouldn't have picked up and we both have very fond memories of that study.

 

Are they working at grade level? Are they able to do the work in a respectable amount of time? How time intensive is it for you? Especially with multiple kids? Do you feel that it is worth the extra effort and money for all those literature guides?

I do have the lit guides for Core 6 and we are looking forward to using some of them. The more familiar books (to us) we won't be using (Anne of Green Gables) becasue we do TONS of read alouds and all of my kids have excellent comprehension and always score around 100% on "english" portions of exams. We will be using the guides to ancient lit and medieval. I do think it's worth the time and money for some of them.

 

I have a current review and give-away of MP Core on my blog (incl.some lit guides;))

[sarahv]

First, at the early levels your child should be able to slowly decode the books in the lit packages, but it is perfectly acceptable to take turns reading the selection or let your child read the first paragraph and you finish out the selection - the point is to practice reading aloud daily, not to torture or frustrate your child. And second, the lit workbooks are not meant to be completed in full - the TMs say to just do what you have time for and feel is necessary for the child, and up through at least the 3rd grade the child/class formulates an answer to one or two of the comprehension questions aloud, the teacher writes it on the board (using correct grammar and punctuation), and then the child copies it into the workbook. They are most definitely not supposed to go through the workbook and complete every page on their own; it is meant to be a guide to oral discussion and a chance to practice formulating/writing complete, correct sentences. And the classes at HLS don't ever get around to the extra activities, they are just there in case a homeschooling family has the time.

 

I double the thank you for bringing this to light. Now I can see that my kids are not so "behind". I did think it was funny that the literature choices seemed harder than the read-alouds for the chosen grades.

 

I'm getting a much better, more realistic view of working the LA materials now. I thank you all for your input! I think that I may choose to start with the literature in 1st and 2nd and pick and choose to work up to the 3rd by the end of the year. It's doable, I think.

 

If you have the literature workbooks, did you buy the teacher's editions of them? Were they helpful?

[sarahv]

I think it depends on how you approach "English". English is really a whole slew of stuff; literature, grammar, spelling, reading comprehension, writing (and therefore logic skills), etc. I think CM addresses these things. For me, however, as a global random thinker I appreciate and work better with a program like MP that is logical and sequential. The more I have going on, the more often I "lose" things/pieces of what I am doing- does that make sense? Iow, I think for folks who are very internally logic and sequential, using a methodology like CM, which is less externally structured, works. For those of us who are less internally structured (not that I don't have structure, but my structure is more like a venn diagram-lol) then external structure helps me get through stuff more efficiently. What I'm saying is that it's more about the teacher than the student, which ultimatly is about the student.

Thank you for this comment, especially (you're other comments were helpful, too). I think that I agree with you. I love CM, but find that AO and other CM influenced materials are just not structured enough--and as I look at the MP materials, I see CM, just in a more structured way. I think I need that if I'm going to get where I want to go.

 

I appreciate those who have responded with ideas that the materials can be used how you want. I need to be reminded of that. It's easy to be see material and be overwhelmed with not being able to accomplish all of it.