Apologia's General and Physical Sciences

[Donna T.]

My current 7th grader used BJU Life Science this year. I think we are going to go with Apologia's Physical Science for 8th grade. Will this be a problem since he didn't do the General Science text for 7th grade? I think he has had a solid Science foundation laid in elementary and early logic stages. He is a HUGE self-learner but his passions are biology, astronomy, and botany. He also went through a chemistry phase and read alot of books for himself and memorized the Periodic Table.

 

I thought he would be fine to go into Physical Science but now I'm second guessing myself after reading some threads about how well General Science teaches them to study and gets them ready for Physical Science.

[Leslie in TN]

I can't be of much help because I was actually going to post a similar question. My dds finished most of BJU science 7 and I'm debating about whether to let them go ahead and do Apologia Physical for 8th or combine with their brother and do General instead.

 

Can anyone else help? :)

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

My ds did BJU Life then did Apologia Physical. No problems at all. He never felt he was 'missing' something.

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

My ds did BJU Life Science (7th) followed by Apologia Physical (8th). There were no problems with the *sequence*, but Apologia is incredibly weak in teacher support compared with BJU. We are going back to BJU for science in 9th and following their sequence thru high school.

I found BJU had teacher support because of the way the student books are written. They are designed to be used alongside an instructor. Apologia is written differently. If the student needs help the support Apologia offers is very child friendly and gets feed back quickly.

[Donna T.]

My ds did BJU Life Science (7th) followed by Apologia Physical (8th). There were no problems with the *sequence*, but Apologia is incredibly weak in teacher support compared with BJU. We are going back to BJU for science in 9th and following their sequence thru high school.

 

I want to stay with BJU but I'm concerned it may be too difficult to use in a home setting for HS. Really, that would be my preference but I've heard that the HS courses require a teacher who is strong in the field and alot of specialized equipment. We could probably swing purchasing the distance learning options for the HS courses. We just used the text with the activity book this year and it was fine.

 

Any thoughts? :001_smile:

[MorningGlory]

I think he has had a solid Science foundation laid in elementary and early logic stages. He is a HUGE self-learner but his passions are biology, astronomy, and botany. He also went through a chemistry phase and read alot of books for himself and memorized the Periodic Table.

This sounds like the type of kid who would do very well with the challenging detail of BJU science. Honestly, I think he might get bored with the Apologia...I know my son would. In fact, I'm pretty sure my ds would hate it. (I promised myself I wouldn't bash Apologia, so I'm stopping with that).

 

If you think you can swing the BJU dvd prices for HS, could you swing one more year and do Earth & Space next year for 8th?

 

We have done Life, Earth & Space, and Physical (finished the last lab today). I love them all and highly recommend them to kids who are science-driven.

 

Regrettably, my son's high school courses are going to use different texts for the most part (because of outsourcing and local group classes). But I would bet that the Biology, Chemistry, and Physics are just as good as the 3 I mentioned.

 

Have you and your son REALLY looked at the Apologia Physical? I wrote a long review once comparing Apologia and BJU. I'll include a snippet of it in the next post just to give an idea of the difference in detail.

[MorningGlory]

A snippet of a very long review I wrote once upon a time comparing Apologia and BJU:

 

I then compared one module from Apologia's Physical Science (Module #6 on the lithosphere) directly to the same material in the BJU Earth & Space Science text. Here are the results of that comparison:

 

• Apologia gives one module of material to the lithosphere (a total of 27 pages...including study guide and optional exercises in back). BJU gives an entire unit to the same topics. This unit includes 217 full color pages.
  
• Apologia has 4 experiments in this module...none of which give the student actual hands-on time with rocks, minerals, or fossils. BJU has 24 experiments for this unit. We have done several of them...including finding the specific gravity of rocks, performing streak and hardness tests with minerals, and examining a trilobite fossil and comparing it to other samples. It is true that we had to have a rock/mineral collection to perform these experiments but I ask you...HOW CAN YOU STUDY ROCKS WITHOUT STUDYING ROCKS????????????????
  
• Apologia has its usual "on your own" questions and study guide. BJU has the same type of study questions at the end of each section and a study guide at the end of each chapter. Plus BJU has 45 other non-experiment activities (just for this unit) like diagram studies and map reading and compare/contrast, etc. etc. These "applications" are one of the top strengths of the BJU program...I LOVE them.
  
• Apologia has NO pictures in this module...NONE...NADA (not even one of the different types of rocks...I mean, if you aren't going to have the students study them in real life...at least have a picture...for crying out loud). They do have 7 diagrams...again, not very professionally done. BJU has so many full-color pictures, maps, and diagrams that it would take me until tomorrow to count them...and that is just in this one unit.
  
• Breaking it down even further...Apologia has 1/2 a page on the 3 types of rocks...2 sentences on metamorphic rocks...one of which says something like "You are probably very familiar with the metamorphic rock, marble." HUH? BJU has an entire chapter on the 3 types of rocks...including a whole section on metamorphic rocks...again with several pictures and an application dedicated to just this type of rock.
  

Again, Donna, since you have already experienced the depth of BJU with Life Science, I think you are going to find that Apologia is really lacking in depth. It certainly has its place in the homeschool market, and I greatly appreciate the strides the author has made to making HS science possible at home. But for a science-oriented kid, I would suggest looking elsewhere. YMMV. ;)

[Donna T.]

A snippet of a very long review I wrote once upon a time comparing Apologia and BJU:

 

Again, Donna, since you have already experienced the depth of BJU with Life Science, I think you are going to find that Apologia is really lacking in depth. It certainly has its place in the homeschool market, and I greatly appreciate the strides the author has made to making HS science possible at home. But for a science-oriented kid, I would suggest looking elsewhere. YMMV. ;)

 

We have not looked at Apologia at all. I am planning to take him with me when we go to our summer convention. Hopefully we can visit the BJU table and talk to a rep. and maybe then I'll feel more comfortable about teaching it at home.

 

Thank you!

Edited May 19, 2012 by Donna T.

[Donna T.]

A snippet of a very long review I wrote once upon a time comparing Apologia and BJU:

 

 

That was VERY helpful! Thanks for taking the time to share it! That's just the kind of info. I needed.

 

Again, Donna, since you have already experienced the depth of BJU with Life Science, I think you are going to find that Apologia is really lacking in depth. It certainly has its place in the homeschool market, and I greatly appreciate the strides the author has made to making HS science possible at home. But for a science-oriented kid, I would suggest looking elsewhere. YMMV. ;)

 

:)

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Uh-oh. Apologia Physical Science is purchased and on the shelf for ds#2 next year. He thought General Science was a bit simplistic this year, and his big brother had serious complaints about the ease of Apologia Biology.

 

I have the feeling that ds#2 actually falls between Apologia and BJU in interest and ability, based on the snippet review (thanks for that, btw), so I should probably look for ways to supplement Apologia for him rather than bailing altogether.

 

Morning Glory, do you have your entire review posted anywhere? What were the major holes beyond rocks?

[Leslie in TN]

I have the feeling that ds#2 actually falls between Apologia and BJU in interest and ability, based on the snippet review (thanks for that, btw), so I should probably look for ways to supplement Apologia for him rather than bailing altogether.

 

That's the perfect way to describe my dc's as well.. what I have to consider is the amount of time available for actually teaching science. I certainly prefer BJU science by far, but unfortunately with our situation I need something that can be done independently, for the most part. So if the DVDs aren't an option, that's a big consideration when you're comparing these two programs.

[MorningGlory]

I have the feeling that ds#2 actually falls between Apologia and BJU in interest and ability

I have this very same problem in my house. Younger DS is a thinker/dreamer/reader type...smart and clever but not an intuitive science type. I still haven't decided if I will use BJU with him...I may try to adapt it in some way. But I do know I won't use Apologia's general or physical. He is working through Apologia's elementary zoology books right now...they are a different animal than the Wile books. I like them. :)

 

Tibbie, I would continue with your plan, but if you feel your son's enjoyment of science completely slipping away, then you might look for something else. And I will pm you the full review...but *please* take it with a grain of salt! ;)

[MorningGlory]

I have to consider is the amount of time available for actually teaching science

 

Good point! It does take a LOT of time.

 

Science and math are top priorities with my older son. He would prefer not to have any other subjects...lol! So we spend a lot of time on science every day. He lives and breathes it. We finished BJU's Physical yesterday, and son was sad. So was mom because I'm outsourcing biology next year. I have thoroughly enjoyed working one on one with this boy the past three years as he has progressed through BJU's middle school courses.

 

But again...not sure if I will do it with younger son. He would rather spend more time on history.

[Woodhaven]

Regarding the differences in BJU versus Apologia physical science books and Apologia being "weaker," keep in mind that the BJU text is considered part of its high school sequence, whereas the Apologia text is considered part of the middle school sequence. Naturally, the BJU will be written at a higher level than the Apologia. You're really comparing two totally different animals.

 

Agreeing with this! The Apologia text being compared here is for middle school, not high school.

[Donna T.]

Good point! It does take a LOT of time.

 

 

 

How much is a lot?? :001_smile: How much time does BJU take for a lesson at the high school level? I know it would probably vary, depending on what you are doing that day but I'd love to have a general idea.

 

We didn't spent alot of time on Science 7 this year. He did Science three or four days a week for 30 minutes or so.

[Donna T.]

I found a thread that some may find interesting.

 

 

BJU or Apologia Biology?

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169113

[MorningGlory]

Regarding the differences in BJU versus Apologia physical science books and Apologia being "weaker," keep in mind that the BJU text is considered part of its high school sequence, whereas the Apologia text is considered part of the middle school sequence. Naturally, the BJU will be written at a higher level than the Apologia. You're really comparing two totally different animals.

 

Actually, this is not true. I was comparing Apologia's Physical Science (an 8th grade text) to BJU's Earth and Space (also an 8th grade text). Same exact grade designation.

[MorningGlory]

How much is a lot?? :001_smile: How much time does BJU take for a lesson at the high school level? I know it would probably vary, depending on what you are doing that day but I'd love to have a general idea.

 

We didn't spent alot of time on Science 7 this year. He did Science three or four days a week for 30 minutes or so.

 

I was referring to *my* time. We haven't used the DVDs for any of these 3 courses, so I spent a lot of time reading ahead, marking the TE, and planning/setting up labs...and then actually discussing and working with ds. My son probably spent 20-30 minutes a day (a bit more on lab days) 5 days a week on Earth and Space and 30-40 minutes a day (again more on lab days) 5 days a week on Physical. But again...we did NOT use the DVDs...I have no idea what the viewing time is for them.

[Paisley Hedgehog]

.

[Donna T.]

I was referring to *my* time. We haven't used the DVDs for any of these 3 courses, so I spent a lot of time reading ahead, marking the TE, and planning/setting up labs...and then actually discussing and working with ds. My son probably spent 20-30 minutes a day (a bit more on lab days) 5 days a week on Earth and Space and 30-40 minutes a day (again more on lab days) 5 days a week on Physical. But again...we did NOT use the DVDs...I have no idea what the viewing time is for them.

 

Thank you!

[ktgrok]

Actually, this is not true. I was comparing Apologia's Physical Science (an 8th grade text) to BJU's Earth and Space (also an 8th grade text). Same exact grade designation.

 

Well, if you think about it, a book that just does earth/space science would almost always have more info on geology than a book that covers a more broad area of topics, right?

[MorningGlory]

Well, if you think about it, a book that just does earth/space science would almost always have more info on geology than a book that covers a more broad area of topics, right?

 

You know, I think this might be the root of the problem. The Apologia text *is* trying to cover a lot of ground in one book. So the author is able to just barely touch on subjects. Plus he is trying to maintain that conversational tone, so a lot of his words are used to "converse" rather than to give detailed descriptions.

 

I am going to reiterate my position on the Apologia texts. They DO have a place in the homeschool market. But the original poster was asking about their use with a bright, science-driven fellow who had already experienced the depth of BJU. I thought HE might get bored with Apologia. That is the only reason that I went into such detail for Donna. I hope others might get some mileage out of it as well.

[Heather in WI]

Thank you for this thread & the replies! Oldest ds used Apologia General this year and thought it was "just ok". He wasn't excited about using Apologia again next year. (This is my child who reads math & science texts for fun.)

 

The new BJU Earth Science text looks amazing! Do you recommend buying the entire kit?

 

I see the DVDs aren't available for it because it is so new. I don't mind some teacher prep (I typically spend 1-2 hours every weekend prepping for the upcoming week as it is), but am a little nervous about what exactly I might be getting into. I do have two younger boys & a toddler. Also, did you buy a kit to go along with it (like the ones from Home Training Tools)?

[Donna T.]

I am going to reiterate my position on the Apologia texts. They DO have a place in the homeschool market. But the original poster was asking about their use with a bright, science-driven fellow who had already experienced the depth of BJU. I thought HE might get bored with Apologia. That is the only reason that I went into such detail for Donna. I hope others might get some mileage out of it as well.

 

I appreciate your responses. We are giving it alot of thought. My son wants to remain with BJU, but I continue to waiver. I posted a question about BJU Science on a yahoo group and the responses I've received have indicated the same thing... that it is difficult to teach BJU at home, even with the DVDs. I was all set to go the whole nine yards with BJU but now I'm rethinking it. I would get the DVDs anyways, so maybe I shouldn't be concerned.

 

My son is a huge self-learner, so I think he would enjoy the independent nature of Apologia. But, he will need more content. Shouldn't be hard to supplement it. Hmmm... still undecided.

 

If we use BJU Earth Science 8 next year would we be able to go into Apologia in 9th grade? He has not studied physics formally though he understands plenty. He has completed alot of reading on Chemistry and we have covered Chemistry pretty well in his curriculum in the past. So... I don't know if it's "enough" to go into Apologia's HS courses.

 

One specific question... has anyone seen how Google Earth is incorporated into BJU Earth Science course? I think that may be new to the newly released edition but I don't know for sure. I read a brief blurb about it somewhere and shared that info. with my son. That got him really excited. Now that I think about it, we have a complete set of an older edition of BJU Earth and Space. Maybe I should dig that out. I glanced at it awhile back and it looked extremely detailed.

 

Another option is Rainbow Science. Susan gave it a good review but I can't find the review.

Edited May 21, 2012 by Donna T.

[MorningGlory]

The new BJU Earth Science text looks amazing! Do you recommend buying the entire kit?

 

I don't mind some teacher prep (I typically spend 1-2 hours every weekend prepping for the upcoming week as it is), but am a little nervous about what exactly I might be getting into. I do have two younger boys & a toddler. Also, did you buy a kit to go along with it (like the ones from Home Training Tools)?

 

Wow...I just looked at the new edition. It appears that BJU has taken the lab work out of the student text and made a separate manual for it (with separate TE for lab)...and then made one student text instead of 2. The price has increased quite a bit, too, I think. I bet this price turns a lot away...

 

Anyway, what you should buy depends on what you want to do. You would definitely need the student text & TE. The teacher's edition will help you discuss the material. Then if you want to do the labs (which is the meat of the program, imho), then you will need the lab manual & lab TE. Finally, you need to decide if you want to try BJU's tests. They are *very* difficult, but so well done. They usually include lots of kinds of items (multiple choice, true/false, short answer, etc.) and also some kind of graph or diagram for the student to interpret. I LOVE this last part...great practice for standardized tests. If they are too difficult, you could make them open book...they would still be a challenge! Or you could not buy them and write your own tests or just not test at all. My son was at the point where he needed the challenge and goal of taking the BJU tests so I purchased them. If you choose all of the above, then you should buy the whole kit.

 

I did NOT buy the whole lab materials kit from Home Science Tools. Instead I got the lab manual from BJU first and then went through it carefully to choose which labs I knew we would and could complete. Then I only purchased materials for those labs. There were a lot of labs to choose from in the prior edition; I would think this new edition is no different. There is no way to do them all! (At least not in our house...toddler here, too)

 

Your younger boys would enjoy some of the labs (if you go this route). Especially the rocket and rocks! :D But I know how difficult it is to work around a toddler. My daughter gets to watch one show on TV (Little Bear!) so we always work on science/math like crazed people when she is absorbed in that. lol!

 

You could also choose to supplement the Apologia text...this would be an easier route. Since your son enjoys reading science, you could easily find great books for him to read on the side as he works through the Apologia. The only downside to this is missing out on the great labs in BJU.

 

HTH!

[MorningGlory]

I appreciate your responses. We are giving it alot of thought. My son wants to remain with BJU, but I continue to waiver. I posted a question about BJU Science on a yahoo group and the responses I've received have indicated the same thing... that it is difficult to teach BJU at home, even with the DVDs. I was all set to go the whole nine yards with BJU but now I'm rethinking it. I would get the DVDs anyways, so maybe I shouldn't be concerned.

I would think the DVDs would make it much easier to teach. But I've never seen them, so I cannot say for sure. I did use BJU's online program with younger son for 4th grade English a couple of years ago. I thought the lessons were very well done. It was a breath of fresh air to have someone else teach him grammar and writing! lol! But he did get tired of the daily grind of watching the lesson.

 

If we use BJU Earth Science 8 next year would we be able to go into Apologia in 9th grade?

Well, if you use BJU Earth in 8th, you might decide to use BJU Physical in 9th! ;) The Physical Science is truly an ICP course (Integrated Chemistry and Physics). It is very, very thorough. But yes, your son should have no problem going into Apologia's biology if you do a year of Earth now. Plus, you might branch out of BJU/Apologia altogether. There are other great choices for HS...like Spectrum Chemistry and Hewitt's Conceptual Physics.

 

One specific question... has anyone seen how Google Earth is incorporated into BJU Earth Science course? I think that may be new to the newly released edition but I don't know for sure. I read a brief blurb about it somewhere and shared that info. with my son. That got him really excited. Now that I think about it, we have a complete set of an older edition of BJU Earth and Space. Maybe I should dig that out. I glanced at it awhile back and it looked extremely detailed.

 

Oh! My son would have LOVED this!! We did use Google Earth a bit when we were looking at local soil types, but not like he would have liked to. The older edition just briefly touches on gps models and such.

 

Another option is Rainbow Science. Susan gave it a good review but I can't find the review.

A good option...but you just have one more year of middle with this son, right? You would have to condense or choose one part of the program (it is a 2 year program).

[Heather in WI]

Thank you, Morning Glory. You've been very helpful! :)

 

Donna, my son is fascinated by Google Earth. I am really interested in hearing more about this!