XP: Math after Singapore and How Rigorous Does it Have to Be?

[jcmi]

Dd (7th, 13) is finishing Singapore 6B this month. She used to be a struggling math student--we went through MUS and CLE before finding Singapore. She's a year behind because we went all the way back to Singapore 3B and worked from there.

 

Singapore changed her from a child who hated math and struggled greatly to a girl who LOVES math and is excelling.

 

However, I'm not sure where to go next year for 8th.

 

My options:

 

* Discovering Mathmatics seems to be the "natural" choice as a continuation of Singapore. I love the look of it and I know she would, too. However, I don't want to use this series through high school as it is "integrated math" rather than a standard sequence. I could use it for 8th, but I'm thinking it makes more sense to switch now to what we'll use through 12th.

 

* MUS would be a good fit....however, it feels really light compared to Singapore....especially the word problems. Math is dd's favorite subject now and she enjoys Sinapore so much; I love how she's able to approach problem solving. She looked at MUS and said, "It looks SO easy!" I hate for her to take a step backwards, if that makes sense. Is MUS rigorous enough to use through 12th?

 

* I have researched and ruled out TT, BJU, Saxon, and all of the programs like Jacobs, Foerster, etc.

 

Part 2 of this question is, "How rigorous is enough? How hard does it have to be?" Dd is very artsy---loves to write, draw, paint, etc. At this point she wants to be an elementary school teacher. I don't see her pursuing anything math/science related. Would MUS do the trick with the least amount of stress?

 

I also have a 5th grader with some language-related challenges, and MUS seems to be a great fit for him, too....but again, is it enough? The reviews seem to be split. Am I making too big a deal out of it?

 

Thanks for any input!

 

Jen

 

mom to 4: dd 13, ds 13 (CP and Asperger's), ds 11, and dd 7

[Candid]

How about I talk you into DM math? I have a 9th grader who is finishing up DM Additional Math (we used NEM prior to that but the NEM Additional Math is out of print).

 

I can remember when we got to the back of NEM 1 and I was astounded, amazed, and enthused about the integration of algebra to solve geometry problems. Much more challenging than any proof I had ever done in my high school geometry class, and it solved that whole thing with students who don't see the real world value to math (because the text and word problems made the real world value crystal clear).

 

But I guess it would help me to know what the objection to the integration is?

[jcmi]

OK, now you've got me curious to check it out :)

 

If I wasn't thinking about transcripts and college and the like, I'd continue with a Singapore-type program. But I've heard that integrated math isn't looked upon favorably on transcripts....

[chepyl]

I replied on your other post, but there are some.old threads discussing transcripts and listing integrated math. You can list by subject rather than year and list the topics covered rather than an integrated math program.

[EKS]

I would not use MUS for the upper levels if you are looking for a rigorous experience. I know you didn't mention that you would be interested in online lessons, but Derek Owens has been wonderful here, and his courses actually have some of the same elements as MUS, video lessons and a workbook style, for example, though his presentation is traditional.

[Candid]

OK, now you've got me curious to check it out :)

 

If I wasn't thinking about transcripts and college and the like, I'd continue with a Singapore-type program. But I've heard that integrated math isn't looked upon favorably on transcripts....

 

I've heard that too! My plan is to not put it on the transcript as "integrated mathematics." I've always said (remember my oldest is in 9th grade, so I'm like you still in future tense) that I plan to list the classes as "Singapore's New Elementary Mathematics 1" and so forth.

 

However you could just transform them to the standard course. You would use a subject driven transcript over a date driven. To help here's the FAQ page listening how they think the classes line up: http://www.singaporemath.com/FAQ_Secondary_Math_s/16.htm

 

Secondary 1: pre-algebra, some algebra 1 and geometry

Secondary 2: algebra 1 and geometry

Secondary 3: some algebra 2, geometry, some trigonometry

Secondary 4: some advanced topics and review

Additional Mathematics: first half is mostly pre-calculus including trigonometry, second half is mostly calculus.

 

So if she is able to do a level a year then you have:

8th: Algebra

9th: Geometry

10th: Algebra 2

11th: Trig and PreCalculus

12th: Introduction to Calculus and Additional Mathematical Topics

 

Now, I will say that with us and NEM that we finished year three over two months early and then did NEM 4A in about that same amount of time. NEM 4B is all review (prep for "O levels"), so I skipped that and went right the DM's Addional Mathematics. I made a mistake of filling in with something else at the end of NEM 3's year. While that was a good program, I should have gone ahead and finished 4A that year. This year I'm afraid my oldest may have to work past May 31st to finish DM Additional Math. I can live with that, but it would have been smarter the other way. I don't know if DM 4B is also review or if it is possible to do what we did with NEM which can move fast. But if that is the case, then your dd might be able to move faster and take a true AP Calculus class her last year because you will actually be able to do the three last levels in two years (this is how it would be done in Singapore where DM is done with the other two in some fashion.)

 

Either way I think the Singapore materials will present a strong math program on her transcript, and I hope help her to score well on standardized tests.

 

Which brings me to my last caveat, I know there is some magic place you are supposed to be at in math with the PSAT and SAT, I would double check that she is on schedule to have adequately covered that material on her pace.

 

Lately, I've realized my plan is dumb, at least for me, you see we got a year ahead before we began the secondary levels and so here I am with a ninth grader in Additional Mathematics. So I've really only got one Singapore math year to explain on my transcript. Next year and in following years I'll have classes more closely aligned with the US system. So I may be a bit of a hypocrite. :D

[jcmi]

OK, Candid, we must think alike!

 

This was helpful, though....I need to look at Singapore's website a bit more to see if I could write something like this on her transcripts:

 

9th: Singapore's Discovering Mathematics 2 (Geometry) A+ ;)

 

Any thoughts? Might this work?

 

And has anyone done DM through 12th? I've looked at DM 1 and it looks great....not a problem to teach. Does that continue or at some point will I regret my decision? :001_smile:

[Candid]

OK, Candid, we must think alike!

 

This was helpful, though....I need to look at Singapore's website a bit more to see if I could write something like this on her transcripts:

 

9th: Singapore's Discovering Mathematics 2 (Geometry) A+ ;)

 

Any thoughts? Might this work?

 

I like that even better than my plan!

 

And has anyone done DM through 12th? I've looked at DM 1 and it looks great....not a problem to teach. Does that continue or at some point will I regret my decision? :001_smile:

 

I used to be a staunch use NEM person because it was the "most." But I also hang out on the Singapore boards and Jenny has slowly convinced me that DM is a great program equally "most" and easier to teach and work with than NEM.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I used NEM for a couple years with my oldest. When I did his transcripts, I did put Integrated Math I and Integrated Math II. In the course descriptions, I put the topics covered in each one. No one questioned it. We eventually switched to AOPS after that because my boys were getting bogged down in NEM and I felt they needed accountability to someone else (who was not constantly on call for her sick mother.)

 

I don't think there would be a problem if you used the title Integrated Math.

[jcmi]

You guys are fantastic :001_smile:. I got great (and similar) responses on the middle school board, too.

 

I think I'll trust my instinct and stick with DM.

 

Unfortunately, it's quite pricey with the workbooks and 2 teacher guides per level.

 

Thoughts on the test bank? We didn't do tests throughout Singapore, but I want to from 8th-12th. It looks like DM only has tests quarterly unless you make your own from the test bank.

 

Thoughts?