Help me - Spelling Wisdom or Spelling Through Copywork (Queens)

[ChrissySC]

Tell me what you think without worry of controversy or reprimand. I want to know your plus and minus evaluation.

 

I have to decide. I want to use copywork and a more CM approach to spelling. We are dreadfully tired of the spelling book exercises.

 

I am using Megawords Book 2, but I want to implement a copywork approach and broaden the coverage of words.

 

So, let me have it. Give me the nuts and bolts of your day with either one.

 

FYI, I am in love with Vocabu-lit and Vocabulary Bridges. They work very well here!

[ChrissySC]

:lurk5:

[Bula Mama]

I've used both and definitely prefer Spelling Wisdom. I like the selections of passages better that you can use with whatever notebook you want. I didn't really like the layout of the Queen book (have used several). It was hard to encourage good handwriting in the kind of cramped lines that were provided for writing on.

 

Queen is probably a tiny bit more open and go, however.

[Carrie-txmama2six]

Have you looked at Simply Spelling (Shoelace books)? They have one book for grades 3-12, or you can buy the books one year at a time. I prefer this book to Spelling Wisdom, although I still like Spelling Wisdom. Simply Spelling has you look at some of the harder words in a passage or separate a word into syllables each day. I also prefer their passages more than SW.

[ChrissySC]

I like the idea of continuing with the syllabic approach. Thank you for the comments. I will look at the Simply Spelling too.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

We have Spelling Wisdom, but haven't used it yet. We plan to finish AAS 6 this week and start SW on Monday. In some ways I think perhaps we should have started earlier--using Spelling Wisdom to replace the dictation in AAS. The selections in Spelling Wisdom are fantastic.

 

One great thing about Spelling Wisdom is the word index in the back. If dd is having trouble with a particular word I can look up dictations that include that word.

 

I haven't seen the Queen's book. I forget why I chose Spelling Wisdom over Simply Spelling. I remember they both looked good. Does Simply Spelling have an index of words?

[happyWImom]

Well, we haven't done any formal spelling until this year (we have used ETC & my dc are on ETC 6 & 7) so I wanted to ease into it.

 

Not to confuse you, but I got Kathryn Stout's "Natural Speller". http://www.amazon.com/Natural-Speller-Kathryn-L-Stout/dp/1891975005

 

It has tons of good info. I am using Queen's Spelling w/ Copywork, but incorporating some of the Natural Speller ideas. I like how they (Nat Speller) have you study a word and talk about root words, prefixes & suffixes. I have them do something with the word list each day, and copy the Queen's words into a separate notebook (after we've done all of the work in the Queen's book for that week)as well as write the rule in it, and have them add endings as suggested in Natural Speller. It is going really well, because the lessons are short, but very repetitive, and they are not just doing the copywork.

 

At the end of the week, prior to the test, I am having them do the words in SpellCity. My ds loves the computer, so it is fun for him, and gives him the extra spelling help he needs. Dd doesn't need it.

 

I haven't tried any other spelling programs, other than R&S and Abeka, but I think my dc weren't ready yet. Also, my dd doesn't like all of the busywork stuff that Abeka does.

 

Good luck!:001_smile:

[ChrissySC]

Tammi, you mentioned some things that are weighting heavily for me as well. I want to work with the patterns and the rules. I want a syllabic approach. I want copywork so that visually the word is imprinted as well as used.

 

The more that I look at the two, the more I realize that I would be changing them. I will have to sit down and create a logic stage vocabulary and spelling program through a mix of resources.

 

I did look at Simply Spelling. I really like this, and I think that I will buy just to be able to look at it and use it in the latter grades, 7-12. This does have the rules-based review/approach too. I believe that this with the Modern Speller may serve to provide enough copywork for spelling as well as actual lessons.

 

I suppose that I am thinking more aloud at this point. I just need more of a CM approach to this subject task. I love the notebook idea too, but then I am all about a notebook or journal when it comes to learning. :lol:

 

What do you all think?

[lorisuewho]

We have Spelling Wisdom, but haven't used it yet. We plan to finish AAS 6 this week and start SW on Monday. In some ways I think perhaps we should have started earlier--using Spelling Wisdom to replace the dictation in AAS. The selections in Spelling Wisdom are fantastic.

 

One great thing about Spelling Wisdom is the word index in the back. If dd is having trouble with a particular word I can look up dictations that include that word.

 

 

When in AAS do you think would have been an ideal time to start using Spelling Wisdom?

[Woodland Mist Academy]

When in AAS do you think would have been an ideal time to start using Spelling Wisdom?

 

I have Spelling Wisdom 2, and I haven't seen the first volume other than a few samples, so take this with a grain of salt. ;)

 

I would consider adding Spelling Wisdom 1 around AAS level 3 or 4. If I remember correctly, AAS 1 and 2 have dictation phrases of just a few words, not sentences. When the dictations switch to sentences-- around level 3-- I would switch as soon as I thought the student was ready. I would use the index in SW to find dictations with some of the words the student has learned.

 

Obviously it depends on the student, but this would probably be 3rd or 4th grade.

 

Hope that helps.

[lorisuewho]

I have Spelling Wisdom 2, and I haven't seen the first volume other than a few samples, so take this with a grain of salt. ;)

 

I would consider adding Spelling Wisdom 1 around AAS level 3 or 4. If I remember correctly, AAS 1 and 2 have dictation phrases of just a few words, not sentences. When the dictations switch to sentences-- around level 3-- I would switch as soon as I thought the student was ready. I would use the index in SW to find dictations with some of the words the student has learned.

 

Obviously it depends on the student, but this would probably be 3rd or 4th grade.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Thank you :)

[happyWImom]

Tammi, you mentioned some things that are weighting heavily for me as well. I want to work with the patterns and the rules. I want a syllabic approach. I want copywork so that visually the word is imprinted as well as used.

 

The more that I look at the two, the more I realize that I would be changing them. I will have to sit down and create a logic stage vocabulary and spelling program through a mix of resources.

 

I did look at Simply Spelling. I really like this, and I think that I will buy just to be able to look at it and use it in the latter grades, 7-12. This does have the rules-based review/approach too. I believe that this with the Modern Speller may serve to provide enough copywork for spelling as well as actual lessons.

 

I suppose that I am thinking more aloud at this point. I just need more of a CM approach to this subject task. I love the notebook idea too, but then I am all about a notebook or journal when it comes to learning. :lol:

 

What do you all think?

 

After lots of trial & error with many different things, I think I am finally figuring out what will work for my dc. And while I like lots of aspects of certain curriculums,I know that almost nothing is going to work for us exactly as it's written. I always tweak, but I think it's okay.:001_smile:

 

So while I'm not familiar with Spelling Wisdom or Simply Spelling, I think combining is probably a good idea. I am so pro copywork, because it's been something we have done from the beginning, and my dc have done well with it. But adding the other stuff is more classical, and I have done that because of WTM & using FLL (which my dc are thriving on). Now I'm babbling, but you get the idea.

[happyWImom]

Tammi, you mentioned some things that are weighting heavily for me as well. I want to work with the patterns and the rules. I want a syllabic approach. I want copywork so that visually the word is imprinted as well as used.

 

The more that I look at the two, the more I realize that I would be changing them. I will have to sit down and create a logic stage vocabulary and spelling program through a mix of resources.

 

I did look at Simply Spelling. I really like this, and I think that I will buy just to be able to look at it and use it in the latter grades, 7-12. This does have the rules-based review/approach too. I believe that this with the Modern Speller may serve to provide enough copywork for spelling as well as actual lessons.

 

I suppose that I am thinking more aloud at this point. I just need more of a CM approach to this subject task. I love the notebook idea too, but then I am all about a notebook or journal when it comes to learning. :lol:

 

What do you all think?

 

After lots of trial & error with many different things, I think I am finally figuring out what will work for my dc. And while I like lots of aspects of certain curriculums,I know that almost nothing is going to work for us exactly as it's written. I always tweak, but I think it's okay.:001_smile:

 

So while I'm not familiar with Spelling Wisdom or Simply Spelling, I think combining is probably a good idea. I am so pro copywork, because it's been something we have done from the beginning, and my dc have done well with it. But adding the other stuff is more classical, and I have done that because of WTM & using FLL (which my dc are thriving on). Now I'm babbling, but you get the idea.

[ChrissySC]

After lots of trial & error with many different things, I think I am finally figuring out what will work for my dc. And while I like lots of aspects of certain curriculums,I know that almost nothing is going to work for us exactly as it's written. I always tweak, but I think it's okay.:001_smile:

 

So while I'm not familiar with Spelling Wisdom or Simply Spelling, I think combining is probably a good idea. I am so pro copywork, because it's been something we have done from the beginning, and my dc have done well with it. But adding the other stuff is more classical, and I have done that because of WTM & using FLL (which my dc are thriving on). Now I'm babbling, but you get the idea.

 

 

So, I think that I have it figured out. I want to focus on word immersion to increase vocabulary, reading, and spelling skills. I want to use visualization as a means to imprint the spelling and context of the words.

 

Daily copywork from the Modern Speller. I am going to start in Book 5 now. The words are rich and not remedial. I plan three times a week for this activity.

 

1. Read the passage aloud for the day.

2. Pronounce each word. Have the child repeat the word.

3. Have the child read the passage aloud.

4. Copy each word to paper.

5. Copy each word and break into syllables.

6. Copy the passage for the day.Check the passage caefully as it is being written to correct any errors immediately.

7. Read the passage from the spelling journal (the copied version).

8. Read each word from the spelling journal.

9. Pronounce each syllable of the word.

10. Say and spell each word aloud.

 

Total time = 15 minutes

 

This alone would serve any natural speller, or any average speller well. I have a terrible speller! (I want to blame my rich southern accent that contains a minor tint of country bumpkin though.:lol:)

 

While the Modern Speller will serve well to manage the eye-to-hand scenarios, I still need to concentrate on the sound more deeply and with a little more guidance.

 

Simply Spelling is unique in that it lays out more for you to focus on the patterns and sounds. A lesson is intended for the week. However, you will only take a few minutes to discuss the points for the day and identify them in the passage. One lesson each week.

 

1. Read the passage aloud from the daily lesson.

2. Complete the daily activity in the spelling journal and or copy the rule.

 

Total time = 15 minutes

 

 

 

Now, the question is .... should I add Spelling Wisdom? Should I use it as a point of actual studied dictation? The passages would be fantastic resources for grammar too. Thus far, my focus is on spelling through visualization and vocalization in isolation. Can I find a reason to add Spelling Wisdom that might be academically enriching to language arts?

[CMmomma]

I LOVE the idea of Spelling Wisdom. After using many things from Queens, I would say the spelling is the one thing I do not care for. To me, once you have a strong foundation in phonics, spelling should then take a "real world" approach. After all, the reason you learn to spell is to aid you in reading literature and writing great pieces. Spelling Wisdom does a great job in using passages from literature and other famous works. We go over words that my dd doesn't understand and use it as a vocab lesson as well. I just love that it's simple. And I think spelling is something learned naturally anyway. I have tried the workbook approach and it's not nearly as effective (for us) as understanding words in their context. Spelling Wisdom forces a child to pay strict attention to the whole context....spelling, vocab, punctuation, and the concept taught. I think it's brilliant! It's so much more than a simple spelling program. I would stress again that having a strong foundation in phonics would be worthwhile before beginning spelling wisdom.

[ChrissySC]

Thanks you for the detail. I truly appreciate it. It would seem that it is worthwhile in the context that you metnioned. I like how you are using it for demonstrative puprose. Phonics does have a good foundation after the last 2 years of work that she has done. It would catch anything that has been missed too.

 

Keep your thoughts coming! Thanks everyone for helping me think this through and use resources outside of their box!

[happyWImom]

Now, the question is .... should I add Spelling Wisdom? Should I use it as a point of actual studied dictation? The passages would be fantastic resources for grammar too. Thus far, my focus is on spelling through visualization and vocalization in isolation. Can I find a reason to add Spelling Wisdom that might be academically enriching to language arts?

 

Remember, I don't really know much about Spelling Wisdom! I looked at the samples, and it does look good. I don't remember if you said what other things you are using for LA. Since we are using FLL & WWE, I feel we are getting enough copywork (in addition to other stuff I have them copy) and dictation, so I'm not sure I would add it. Unless-I could get it for a really good price, could afford it, and wanted it "on-hand". I've done that with other things, and added them in and been really glad I did!

 

Not much help, I know....

[ChrissySC]

Remember, I don't really know much about Spelling Wisdom! I looked at the samples, and it does look good. I don't remember if you said what other things you are using for LA. Since we are using FLL & WWE, I feel we are getting enough copywork (in addition to other stuff I have them copy) and dictation, so I'm not sure I would add it. Unless-I could get it for a really good price, could afford it, and wanted it "on-hand". I've done that with other things, and added them in and been really glad I did!

 

Not much help, I know....

 

LOL, R&S for the grammar, Writing Strands and Writer's Express for a more formal approach to writing, Vocabu-lit and Vocabulary Bridges ....

 

I have not found FLL and WWE to fit well with my teaching style, unfortunately. I am an academic, and thus more straightforward processes with immediate results that can be evaluated on objectives, or subjectives, seem to fit me better. :lol: I have used the traditional narration approach as outlined prior to the workbooks and presented in '98.

 

Ah, the woes of individualsim. I want a shrink-wrapped kid or one-size-fits-all. <giggle>

 

Tammi, I don't know any more than you do either, but thank you for being here! I enjoy not having to talk to myself.

[happyWImom]

LOL, R&S for the grammar, Writing Strands and Writer's Express for a more formal approach to writing, Vocabu-lit and Vocabulary Bridges ....

 

I have not found FLL and WWE to fit well with my teaching style, unfortunately. I am an academic, and thus more straightforward processes with immediate results that can be evaluated on objectives, or subjectives, seem to fit me better. :lol: I have used the traditional narration approach as outlined prior to the workbooks and presented in '98.

 

Ah, the woes of individualsim. I want a shrink-wrapped kid or one-size-fits-all. <giggle>

 

Tammi, I don't know any more than you do either, but thank you for being here! I enjoy not having to talk to myself.

 

I want the one-size-fits-all kid, too!!! We've gone through soooo much curriculum that would have worked better for me and my teaching style. Or certain all-in-one curricula that was too easy for my dc in some areas & too advanced in others. Oh, well.

 

A word of encouragement for you, though: At least you (we) are still searching, researching and striving to find the best fit for our dc!! Because I want mine to enjoy learning (as best as they can) and get as much as they can out of it. Otherwise, I would have purchased a strictly workbook type curriculum or done an all online one that didn't involve me much at all, or engage their imaginations. Whew-that's my little speach for the day!:D

 

And I've enjoyed talking with you, Chrissy & hearing your views on things!

[Carrie-txmama2six]

I do not think you need to add Spelling Wisdom to Simply Spelling. I use WWE for writing which has the regular dictation and Simply Spelling for studied dictation. They write the passage 4 days and test on the fifth. I use it more CM in that they do not have to hold the entire passage in their mind and then write it. I break it up where needed. I also use R&S spelling for all the rules. R&S has two dictation sentences each week with their spelling tests too. I have them re-write any misspelled words on any of their work, and I let them ask me how to spell anything they need help with during their school work so they do not get in the habit of seeing words misspelled. This combination has really helped my dc who struggle with spelling. Hope this helps!

[CMmomma]

 

Ah, the woes of individualsim. I want a shrink-wrapped kid or one-size-fits-all. <giggle>

 

 

:iagree:I am an advocate of kids having the primary responsibility for their own education to a large extent. I like Charlotte Mason style curriculums for this reason. They are responsible for thinking outside of the box instead of filling in the blank when they make think totally different from the person writing the question. Narration and dictation are also great tools for having a child think about what you are trying to teach them. You supply the material for study but the child finds the way that it clicks best with them. They may write it several times, or just study it, or make a drawing about the material to help them remember etc. I have been reluctant to try FLL or anything like that due to the scripted teacher's manuals. Not a great reason I know, but I feel boxed in and I know my kids will too. I take learning as a journey. :)

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I do not think you need to add Spelling Wisdom to Simply Spelling.

 

:iagree: I would use one or the other.

[happyWImom]

:iagree:I am an advocate of kids having the primary responsibility for their own education to a large extent. I like Charlotte Mason style curriculums for this reason. They are responsible for thinking outside of the box instead of filling in the blank when they make think totally different from the person writing the question. Narration and dictation are also great tools for having a child think about what you are trying to teach them. You supply the material for study but the child finds the way that it clicks best with them. They may write it several times, or just study it, or make a drawing about the material to help them remember etc. I have been reluctant to try FLL or anything like that due to the scripted teacher's manuals. Not a great reason I know, but I feel boxed in and I know my kids will too. I take learning as a journey. :)

 

I didn't think FLL would work for us, either (and I still have had them use Queen's LL along with)but they both really like the interaction with me-the oral stuff. And I have been so impressed with their ability to memorize the poetry! My ds has memorized poems I haven't even gone over with him yet-it's just been by listening to me do it with dd! I do have them do enrichment things that aren't always in FLL (my tweaking again) and dd really likes doing illustrations in her notebook, and we have a separate sketchbook with her poems, as well as a sketchbook with grammar rules & illustrations. For instance, for noun, she is to come up with a handful of common nouns, draw a picture of it & write the word underneath. Then, on another page, she is to write sentences (that she makes up) with common nouns, and she writes the nouns in blue pencil. Then, when we've gotten to verbs, adverbs, adj.,etc.... she does the same. So, I am using FLL as a spine, so to speak, but then they are having to think on their own & use their imaginations for the other parts.

[ChrissySC]

I believe that many of the CM methods have worked well here because she thinks that she teaches herself. This another of those infamous goals - to have her grow and be able to teach herself anything. It is a fact that the kids often fail in college because the do not have the tools to learn. Being able to read, think, and work the information at hand is very important.

 

 

And while I do not remember the poster in the thread that mentioned editing a child's work, this is a great point. We teach them to spell or to write what they hear. This is stressed so much early in their education that they do not get to the point of writing the word how they "think" it should be spelled. Forming a visual memory, an aspect of CM spelling techniques, is what is missing in our spelling course. To further extend the poster's comment, the same is true for sentence structure, paragrpah building, and grammar, i.e. capitalization, punctuation, etc.

 

 

Perhaps any piece of work versus Spelling Wisdom would be a great adaption to see the style and structure for writing? Anyone have a great resource that would be as purposeful? One that does not have dictation as its base maybe? If I am going to use Simply Spelling with the Modern Speller for visually teaching spelling, perhaps I should find a resource or method to back up the straightforward approach to grammar (R&S)?