I need help supplementing Classical Conversations. Prior experience not required.

[cheryl h]

I posted a similar question last week, got no replies, so I am trying again.

 

I have a rising 9th grader who is a very good writer, loves history, loves literature even more. As I look at the CC Challenge B curriculum, I do find it a bit weak in the history and literature areas, as well as "hands on" science. I would have done MFW AHL had we not enrolled in CC, but now I don't think I can afford it in addition to tuition/books. What other recomendations do you have that might be similar but less expensive? I also would love for it to already have a schedule if possible. It would be okay if it didn't have a ton of writing(some is ok), as she will have plenty of other writing within the CC program. My second thought was SWB History of the Ancient World, but I haven't heard of any accompaning lesson plan or coordinating literature lists. Some one on the board may have worked that out already, I don't know.

 

In addition, I would also love a good "light" science recommendation with some hands on stuff to make what she is doing at CC more complete. Challenge B science is awesome for science research, but not seeing the hands on part that I would like.

 

Like I stated in the thread title, Classical Conversations experience is not required for giving advice, just experience in general with supplementing something good to make it great for your specific kid. Thanks in advance.

:001_smile::bigear::001_smile:

[Heather in VA]

This was the problem we had when we tried CC. We signed up for Challenge B in 8th grade. We moved up to Challenge 1 and still it was very light compared to what we had already been doing. The problem we found was that supplementing was difficult since we were already giving a day up to go to CC in the first place. We chose to add Omnibus (I picked and chose books). I hadn't signed up for the science but I would have needed to supplement there if we had.

 

Here are some ideas depending on how you want to approach it.

 

Literature:

 

Lightning Literature has several options and packages for reading, writing and analysis. The 7th and 8th grade packs are a year long but not too intense so they could be added, and the high school ones are sold by semester so you could just choose to do one semester over a full year for supplementation.

 

You could also keep it less formal by just finding a book list and having her read them and then informally discuss. That would broaden her exposure without upping the work too much

 

History:

 

You are right that SWB's book does not have associated schedules etc. My oldest read through both Ancient and Medieval as supplements to our Omnibus studies. While she really enjoyed them she said the retention wasn't there like she gets when she really interacts with the materials.

 

You mentioned wanting to do MFW AHL... Could you just get the Notgrass part and then check out any books from the library? Or maybe get the MFW teacher's guide only and use the library from there - I read that you don't have to use Notgrass so maybe just buying part of it would be more financially doable but you'd still have want you wanted in the first place.

 

Science -

 

We use DIVE science. They have Earth Science, Physical Science, Biology, Chemistry and Physics. With the exception of Physics which is tied to Saxon, you can be very flexible with how you use this and how much you spend. The DVD itself is $50. That is all you absolutely have to spend. All the labs are done in the video so if you don't want to spend money on supplies you can do them virtually and still write up lab reports etc. They provide syllabuses (or syllabi - I'm never sure which) for additional reading in a variety of textbooks (Apologia and BJU being two) but also they provide Internet reading if you don't want to use a text.

 

I would encourage you to look into the future levels of CC for how you plan to supplement going forward. I have found that some people are quite surprised to find out they do need to supplement to make CC credits legitimate and end up scrambling to add more work. That doesn't mean CC is not worthwhile, just know that if you are finding it light now, you probably will throughout.

 

Heather

[amtmcm]

We supplemented Challenge B with Omnibus II & BJU Life Science (DD has 2 years of Intro Physics/Chem in 6th & 7th so she needed a Life Sci course).

[cheryl h]

This was the problem we had when we tried CC. We signed up for Challenge B in 8th grade. We moved up to Challenge 1 and still it was very light compared to what we had already been doing. The problem we found was that supplementing was difficult since we were already giving a day up to go to CC in the first place. We chose to add Omnibus (I picked and chose books). I hadn't signed up for the science but I would have needed to supplement there if we had.

 

Here are some ideas depending on how you want to approach it.

 

Literature:

 

Lightning Literature has several options and packages for reading, writing and analysis. The 7th and 8th grade packs are a year long but not too intense so they could be added, and the high school ones are sold by semester so you could just choose to do one semester over a full year for supplementation.

 

You could also keep it less formal by just finding a book list and having her read them and then informally discuss. That would broaden her exposure without upping the work too much

 

History:

 

You are right that SWB's book does not have associated schedules etc. My oldest read through both Ancient and Medieval as supplements to our Omnibus studies. While she really enjoyed them she said the retention wasn't there like she gets when she really interacts with the materials.

 

You mentioned wanting to do MFW AHL... Could you just get the Notgrass part and then check out any books from the library? Or maybe get the MFW teacher's guide only and use the library from there - I read that you don't have to use Notgrass so maybe just buying part of it would be more financially doable but you'd still have want you wanted in the first place.

 

Science -

 

We use DIVE science. They have Earth Science, Physical Science, Biology, Chemistry and Physics. With the exception of Physics which is tied to Saxon, you can be very flexible with how you use this and how much you spend. The DVD itself is $50. That is all you absolutely have to spend. All the labs are done in the video so if you don't want to spend money on supplies you can do them virtually and still write up lab reports etc. They provide syllabuses (or syllabi - I'm never sure which) for additional reading in a variety of textbooks (Apologia and BJU being two) but also they provide Internet reading if you don't want to use a text.

 

I would encourage you to look into the future levels of CC for how you plan to supplement going forward. I have found that some people are quite surprised to find out they do need to supplement to make CC credits legitimate and end up scrambling to add more work. That doesn't mean CC is not worthwhile, just know that if you are finding it light now, you probably will throughout.

 

Heather

 

 

Well, If it weren't for the Latin and Logic, I would have rather done Challenge I. However, dd hasn't done these and is new to CC so we chose Chall B, knowing we would have to do some tweeking. Our choice to enroll in CC was more based on what I needed in outside accountability, positive reinforcement, public speaking, group discussions, and logic that I am not able to do at home as well as I would like. Our goal is for her to do the local dual enrollment program when she turns 16, but anything we do up until then will count for nothing in the eyes of the dual enrollment district. She will be literally doing a full high school education and AA degree at once over a two year period, but for free so I don't complain too loudly about our homeschool credits not counting. My biggest goal is to have her as far along in math and writing skills as possible so that she can test into the 100 level college math and writing. I believe CC will be a very good resource to build those skills, and I can round out everything else as I see fit.

 

I am still hoping to piece together MFW AHL used, because I love that it includes Bible and Lit, and I need this to be an independant study for her. Thanks for the Dive science recommendation, I will look into that.

[cheryl h]

We have been using MOH. I am wondering if the high school activities and lit rec's for Vol. 1 would be enough?

[Heather in VA]

Well, If it weren't for the Latin and Logic, I would have rather done Challenge I. However, dd hasn't done these and is new to CC so we chose Chall B, knowing we would have to do some tweeking. Our choice to enroll in CC was more based on what I needed in outside accountability, positive reinforcement, public speaking, group discussions, and logic that I am not able to do at home as well as I would like. Our goal is for her to do the local dual enrollment program when she turns 16, but anything we do up until then will count for nothing in the eyes of the dual enrollment district. She will be literally doing a full high school education and AA degree at once over a two year period, but for free so I don't complain too loudly about our homeschool credits not counting. My biggest goal is to have her as far along in math and writing skills as possible so that she can test into the 100 level college math and writing. I believe CC will be a very good resource to build those skills, and I can round out everything else as I see fit.

 

I am still hoping to piece together MFW AHL used, because I love that it includes Bible and Lit, and I need this to be an independant study for her. Thanks for the Dive science recommendation, I will look into that.

 

That's good. It sounds like CC will do exactly what you are hoping it will. I ran into many who weren't prepared to need to tweak or supplement so it came as a big surprise.

 

As far as Latin/Logic - Challenge 1 starts with Henle from the beginning. Several kids in the group had no Latin experience and those who did Latin's No So Tough had struggled with it (it's an odd layout) but then were much better with Henle.

 

I don't want to push you but really look again at putting her in Challenge I. I don't think you'll be sorry. Remember too that Challenge 1 starts with physical science and many colleges these days don't consider that as high school credit. You'll need to do more than supplement science- you'll need to do your own, especially if put Challenge 1 off until 10th.

 

Heather

[Ginger]

My daugther is doing Challenge B this year (8th grade). I've supplemented with CLE Language Arts (she really still needs the grammar and spelling practice) and Notgrass America the Beautiful (basically just reading the text aloud and doing the map work). We also did a light Chemistry program with all 3 of my kids (RS4K). On the days when her workload has been heavier, she hsa just skipped the extras.

 

I really wanted to add in BJU science this year, but thought it would be too much. In hindsight, I wish I would have. Challenge B hasn't been as time consuming for her as A was.

[cheryl h]

That's good. It sounds like CC will do exactly what you are hoping it will. I ran into many who weren't prepared to need to tweak or supplement so it came as a big surprise.

 

As far as Latin/Logic - Challenge 1 starts with Henle from the beginning. Several kids in the group had no Latin experience and those who did Latin's No So Tough had struggled with it (it's an odd layout) but then were much better with Henle.

 

I don't want to push you but really look again at putting her in Challenge I. I don't think you'll be sorry. Remember too that Challenge 1 starts with physical science and many colleges these days don't consider that as high school credit. You'll need to do more than supplement science- you'll need to do your own, especially if put Challenge 1 off until 10th.

 

Heather

 

Heather, I absolutely hear what you are saying, and I did for a while feel like I was comprimising by putting her in B. However, by putting her in B in this community I am already bucking the system a bit by not putting her in A. All the kids going into Challenge I have done both A and B, and I think it's full anyway. I am at peace with the Chall B position. My dd will be finishing Physical Science this year, so this next year in B she will do a lot of research and I will supplement with something(though I don't know what yet). The following year when everyone in Chall I is doing Phys. Sci, I will just have her do something else too. I understand what you are getting at with credits, but in the local dual enrollment she would have to take all those requirements again anyway, but for college credit and for diploma. What ever we do the next two years will only be for dd's good, not for a transcript.

Edited March 21, 2012 by cheryl h
Clarification: by "her good" I mean "readiness", KWIM?

[amtmcm]

We have been using MOH. I am wondering if the high school activities and lit rec's for Vol. 1 would be enough?

 

Heather, I absolutely hear what you are saying, and I did for a while feel like I was comprimising by putting her in B. However, by putting her in B in this community I am already bucking the system a bit by not putting her in A. All the kids going into Challenge I have done both A and B, and I think it's full anyway. I am at peace with the Chall B position.....

 

The research skills learned in Challenge B are outstanding. Though the material is a bit light on content, it's excellent in skills training. My DD really enjoyed it! I was impressed with the gentle, fluid process of learning learning how to research a topic, put it on paper and present it through the Current Events and History of Science in the fall. And the Short Story and Mock Trial in the spring is fun and seems to be the favorites with most students.

 

I used MOH with my younger DD and we really enjoyed that too. It sounds like a good combo to use MOH with the High School recommendations alongside Challenge B. I hope it's a great year for your DD!

[cheryl h]

It seems that amidst the research component of Challenge B, there is a bit of a Chemistry bent. Is this a correct observation? I wonder if that's the way we should lean with supplementing? I really like the Apologia high school texts, but I am guessing to do that much research(Chall B) and the Chem text would be too much. Would doing a Chem text this next year, then Bio really be a problem? I also don't need to slam this dc with heavy science, just a solid foundation, as she is more of a liberal arts gal. I don't want to go too light either, in case she changes her mind. The RS4K Chem is a good possibility, too.

[Brenda in FL]

I'm really interested in this thread and will be back to comment when I have some time later - and a real keyboard!

[cheryl h]

bumping for more advice/exposure...you know...timing and all that.

[Brenda in FL]

I'll have a ninth grader in Challenge B next year. I decided that I had to supplement the science portion in order to get a high school credit. I'm leaning towards Conceptual Physics. I won't require him to do the written biographies for class, but I would like him to read up on the scientists do that he can participate somewhat in class.

 

We will need to decide eventually whether to graduate after Challenge III or do an extra year of HS. If we decide to graduate after III then he won't get any physics unless I do Conceptual next year.

 

Some of the posts have me somewhat concerned about needing to supplement throughout the challenge program. CC certainly doesn't tell you that's necessary. :001_huh:

[amtmcm]

I'll have a ninth grader in Challenge B next year. I decided that I had to supplement the science portion in order to get a high school credit. I'm leaning towards Conceptual Physics. I won't require him to do the written biographies for class, but I would like him to read up on the scientists do that he can participate somewhat in class.

 

We will need to decide eventually whether to graduate after Challenge III or do an extra year of HS. If we decide to graduate after III then he won't get any physics unless I do Conceptual next year.

 

Some of the posts have me somewhat concerned about needing to supplement throughout the challenge program. CC certainly doesn't tell you that's necessary. :001_huh:

 

 

I wouldn't skip the scientist biographies. That's where a lot of the research skills are gained.

 

Science looks something like this (which you can read about in the catalog):

 

1st half fall History of Science (scientist biography research)

2nd half fall Science Fair Project

1st half spring Defeating Darwin

2nd half spring chemistry unit study

 

The spring science is minimal so it's very easy to supplement. We supplemented all year with BJU Life Science.

 

We used Conceptual Physics this year and the text is great, but we also tried to do the accompanying "Problem Solving Workbook" and the math was a killer. DD is only in geometry and just started a little trig last week, so she was not prepared for the math. But you'll have no problem if you just want to read Conceptual Physics, do a few experiments and get the concepts. DD and I both really liked reading the text.

[cheryl h]

I wouldn't skip the scientist biographies. That's where a lot of the research skills are gained.

 

Science looks something like this (which you can read about in the catalog):

 

1st half fall History of Science (scientist biography research)

2nd half fall Science Fair Project

1st half spring Defeating Darwin

2nd half spring chemistry unit study

 

The spring science is minimal so it's very easy to supplement. We supplemented all year with BJU Life Science.

 

We used Conceptual Physics this year and the text is great, but we also tried to do the accompanying "Problem Solving Workbook" and the math was a killer. DD is only in geometry and just started a little trig last week, so she was not prepared for the math. But you'll have no problem if you just want to read Conceptual Physics, do a few experiments and get the concepts. DD and I both really liked reading the text.

 

When you say supplemented, do you mean "we picked and chose a few chapters and activities", or do you mean "we were thorough, did all the chapters, quizes, tests, labs". I ask this because I have a really hard time picking and choosing, I want to do it ALL, to COMPLETION (sounds like a disease I know). I want to know if I can reasonably expect this child, who is a good writer, to be able to "DO" a whole other science curriculum at home. Is BJU Life Science a Bio course? I'm not familiar with it. I would like to do Apologia Bio or Chem.

[cheryl h]

I'll have a ninth grader in Challenge B next year. I decided that I had to supplement the science portion in order to get a high school credit. I'm leaning towards Conceptual Physics. I won't require him to do the written biographies for class, but I would like him to read up on the scientists do that he can participate somewhat in class.

 

We will need to decide eventually whether to graduate after Challenge III or do an extra year of HS. If we decide to graduate after III then he won't get any physics unless I do Conceptual next year.

 

Some of the posts have me somewhat concerned about needing to supplement throughout the challenge program. CC certainly doesn't tell you that's necessary. :001_huh:

 

Brenda, I had the same concerns at first too. Why should I have to fill in gaps if I pay $$$ for CC. However, I have landed at the place of peace in that 1) It's a tutoring service, not a school. So if I have to fill in a few holes, so be it. They are providing the things that I can't in accountability, positive reinforcement, group discussion, and on, and on. I can't do this homeschooling thing in isolation, my kids and I both need outside encouragement and accountability, and CC is our only option for that here. 2) ANY other school (including my own at home) will never be able to satisfy what I want 100%, and CC is a fabulous program.

 

So with that, I ordered the Henle Latin today so we can try to catch up to where she would have been had she did Chall A.

[Brenda in FL]

I wouldn't skip the scientist biographies. That's where a lot of the research skills are gained.

 

Science looks something like this (which you can read about in the catalog):

 

1st half fall History of Science (scientist biography research)

2nd half fall Science Fair Project

1st half spring Defeating Darwin

2nd half spring chemistry unit study

 

The spring science is minimal so it's very easy to supplement. We supplemented all year with BJU Life Science.

 

We used Conceptual Physics this year and the text is great, but we also tried to do the accompanying "Problem Solving Workbook" and the math was a killer. DD is only in geometry and just started a little trig last week, so she was not prepared for the math. But you'll have no problem if you just want to read Conceptual Physics, do a few experiments and get the concepts. DD and I both really liked reading the text.

 

Are the research skills any different from the skills used for the biology reports in Ch A? I may have to reconsider.

 

Thanks for the science summary and your experience with Conceptual Physics.

[amtmcm]

When you say supplemented, do you mean "we picked and chose a few chapters and activities", or do you mean "we were thorough, did all the chapters, quizes, tests, labs". I ask this because I have a really hard time picking and choosing, I want to do it ALL, to COMPLETION (sounds like a disease I know). I want to know if I can reasonably expect this child, who is a good writer, to be able to "DO" a whole other science curriculum at home. Is BJU Life Science a Bio course? I'm not familiar with it. I would like to do Apologia Bio or Chem.

 

I guess I shouldn't say "supplemented." We completed ALL of BJU Life Science - every chapter, EVERY Student Activity sheet (there's about 3-4 per chapter), every test and every lab (1 hands on each week and the rest on DVD).

 

BJU Life Science is an extremely rigorous middle school text. I've taught Apologia Biology at co-op for two years and the labs in BJU Life Science are often more in depth.

 

Since you'd like to do Apologia Biology, I don't think it would be a problem. Apologia Chem has a lot of math so it might be tougher.

[amtmcm]

Are the research skills any different from the skills used for the biology reports in Ch A? I may have to reconsider.

 

 

We've done Challenge B & I, but not A, so I'm not really sure.

 

The History of Science in Challenge B teaches the student how to outline, write note cards, write a narrative essay and builds up to writing an expository essay. This might be more practice of the same skills learned in Challenge A, but my impression is that it's a bit more in depth.

[G5052]

Brenda, I had the same concerns at first too. Why should I have to fill in gaps if I pay $$$ for CC. However, I have landed at the place of peace in that 1) It's a tutoring service, not a school. So if I have to fill in a few holes, so be it. They are providing the things that I can't in accountability, positive reinforcement, group discussion, and on, and on. I can't do this homeschooling thing in isolation, my kids and I both need outside encouragement and accountability, and CC is our only option for that here. 2) ANY other school (including my own at home) will never be able to satisfy what I want 100%, and CC is a fabulous program.

 

So with that, I ordered the Henle Latin today so we can try to catch up to where she would have been had she did Chall A.

 

Most parents don't look at it this way, but I consider myself still very much in charge. I read every book cover-to-cover, and go over the assignments at both the beginning of the week and end of the week before they're turned in. Where expectations are lacking for my student, I expect more reading, more writing, etc. etc. So where I've been disappointed with it, we didn't lose. I kept the level high even if only at home. The class interactions and unique classes have been worthwhile for us. Next year I'll have only one in Challenge, but I don't regret the years we've used it.

 

IMHO where people go wrong is where the parents don't remain involved.

[i.love.lucy]

Most parents don't look at it this way, but I consider myself still very much in charge. I read every book cover-to-cover, and go over the assignments at both the beginning of the week and end of the week before they're turned in. Where expectations are lacking for my student, I expect more reading, more writing, etc. etc. So where I've been disappointed with it, we didn't lose. I kept the level high even if only at home. The class interactions and unique classes have been worthwhile for us. Next year I'll have only one in Challenge, but I don't regret the years we've used it.

 

IMHO where people go wrong is where the parents don't remain involved.

:iagree:Thank you for this!!! I am Directing Ch A this coming year and I would love all the parents of the kids in my class to keep this attitude!! Tutoring program, yes, full school, uh...no. You are still very much in control and should be involved every step of the way.