PLL & ILL but want formal grammar terms MFW rec's

[joyfulhomeschooler]

Couldn't figure out a good title for this thread.

 

I want to use PLL & ILL, and am now feeling more confident about using it BUT I want my children to also know formal grammar. How would you go about this?

 

Someone recommended doing FLL and WWE during the school year and then spending summers on PLL. Would this work? It sounds good since I don't like completely stopping all school in the summer.

 

I thought that maybe I could do PLL paired with some fun mad libs to get what I wanted, but mad libs just doesn't go into enough detail for school.

 

What about PLL & ILL with some Winston grammar thrown in?

 

Or how about just using the grammar and writing we are using now and then doing serls books in the summer?

 

I am really wishing I had just stuck with MFW's rec's on LA.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

Just hoping I'll get some answers today. I remember someone mentioning Galore park. Would this be a good companion instead of one of the above to serls books? Or is it strictly a writing program?

[A home for their hearts]

I don't use MFW, so I can't help you there. I only used FLL for a brief time and didn't really like it.

 

What about Voyages in Enlish? I don't know if you would want grade one or two but you can see sample of them at the link above. I don't think you would really need the teacher's edition for this age. The student workbooks are around $17.

 

Just a suggestion!

[Donna A.]

Well, any of the ideas mentioned in your OP would "work".... until your student reaches burnout or you realize they just aren't getting it. :) Some other things to think about:

 

-- PLL/ILL are only scheduled so many days a week. You can use FLL (or whatever you like) on the other days, rather than doing one during the school year and the other during the summer. (Although I can see why using them in opposite seasons would work for you if you don't school year round.)

 

-- Writing Strands (or other composition, whatever you like) is also only scheduled a couple days a week. So the student is still getting language arts all five days, even if you add nothing. And then there's all the scheduled copywork, dictation, memorization, notebooking, etc. Grammar IS getting covered (in context); they just aren't learning the names of the parts of speech yet. These can be easily taught in middle school and the student should be able to catch on quickly. I promise. Did it with my own girls. ;) (Yes, we dabbled in "formal" grammar curriculum off and on over the years, but they never really "got it". It was a waste of time.)

 

-- Most composition programs that I've seen (including WS, and I assume WWE, too) involve some grammar review as you're using the grammar in written communication. Thus, you don't really need to do "grammar" every day. That's why MFW doesn't schedule PLL/ILL every day in the elementary years. The same thing is happening when you do language arts CM style.... they ARE learning formal grammar in context. The names of everything, along with diagramming or parsing sentences, can be learned quickly in middle school.

 

-- Have you seen the Table of Contents in both PLL and ILL? Formal grammar actually IS taught, along with composition skills. :001_smile: Additionally, Lost Classics Books now has teacher manuals available for these books.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

Well, any of the ideas mentioned in your OP would "work".... until your student reaches burnout or you realize they just aren't getting it. :) Some other things to think about:

 

-- PLL/ILL are only scheduled so many days a week. You can use FLL (or whatever you like) on the other days, rather than doing one during the school year and the other during the summer. (Although I can see why using them in opposite seasons would work for you if you don't school year round.)

 

-- Writing Strands (or other composition, whatever you like) is also only scheduled a couple days a week. So the student is still getting language arts all five days, even if you add nothing. And then there's all the scheduled copywork, dictation, memorization, notebooking, etc. Grammar IS getting covered (in context); they just aren't learning the names of the parts of speech yet. These can be easily taught in middle school and the student should be able to catch on quickly. I promise. Did it with my own girls. ;) (Yes, we dabbled in "formal" grammar curriculum off and on over the years, but they never really "got it". It was a waste of time.)

 

-- Most composition programs that I've seen (including WS, and I assume WWE, too) involve some grammar review as you're using the grammar in written communication. Thus, you don't really need to do "grammar" every day. That's why MFW doesn't schedule PLL/ILL every day in the elementary years. The same thing is happening when you do language arts CM style.... they ARE learning formal grammar in context. The names of everything, along with diagramming or parsing sentences, can be learned quickly in middle school.

 

-- Have you seen the Table of Contents in both PLL and ILL? Formal grammar actually IS taught, along with composition skills. :001_smile: Additionally, Lost Classics Books now has teacher manuals available for these books.

 

We try to say we don't school year round, but really it always turns into that :) with maybe a few weeks break here and there. You think it would be burnout then?

 

I know my children would be fine waiting until middle school years to get the "formal" rammar I am talking about. I do realize as well that PLL & ILL it is being covered in content, which is why I like it so much I think ;) But for testing I worry about them not knowing the parts of speech & such. Is this a silly worry? You've been there. .How did your dc do on testing without knowing these things until later?

[Bula Mama]

Why don't you add something like Grammar-Land with these worksheets: http://dontneednoeducation.blogspot.com/search?q=Grammar-Land+Worksheets&x=0&y=0

 

or The Sentence Family if you're concerned?

 

I don't know where you are for your kids to be tested and what the requirements might be, but I didn't get taught ANY formal grammar until 6th grade in public school.

[Donna A.]

We try to say we don't school year round, but really it always turns into that :) with maybe a few weeks break here and there. You think it would be burnout then?

 

I know my children would be fine waiting until middle school years to get the "formal" rammar I am talking about. I do realize as well that PLL & ILL it is being covered in content, which is why I like it so much I think ;) But for testing I worry about them not knowing the parts of speech & such. Is this a silly worry? You've been there. .How did your dc do on testing without knowing these things until later?

 

We don't have to do standardized testing here, so it's not something I have to worry about. :001_smile: I did give them the CAT test one year, though, and both my girls excelled in all areas of language arts. Their weaknesses are in math. :glare:

 

If I lived in a state where we had to test, but I really, really wanted to use PLL and ILL, I think I would add a simple inexpensive workbook that covers the basics. Rod & Staff sells what they call "remedial" English worksheets that would do the job. http://www.rodandstaffbooks.com/list/Rod_and_Staff_Remedial_English/

 

Daily Grams, Spectrum... anything like that would be enough for test prep without burnout and wasting a lot of time and money on something that they'll eventually get, anyway. And when I say "burnout", I'm referring to long term over several years, not just within a few months' time. So much of grammar is repeated year after year after year..... :tongue_smilie:

 

I guess I'm saying that with all the other language arts built into MFW, and especially if you use PLL/ILL, I think that simply supplementing with some light teaching of the basics will be enough even if you have to test. It doesn't require a "full" grammar program. Make sense?

[joyfulhomeschooler]

Why don't you add something like Grammar-Land with these worksheets: http://dontneednoeducation.blogspot.com/search?q=Grammar-Land+Worksheets&x=0&y=0

 

or The Sentence Family if you're concerned?

 

I don't know where you are for your kids to be tested and what the requirements might be, but I didn't get taught ANY formal grammar until 6th grade in public school.

 

We are in Oregon and grammar is on the testing as far as I know.

 

I love the looks of the grammar land dowload. Are you the one that made the workseets or is this someone elses blog? I thought I remembered you being a PLL user. Are you still using that? Do I hve you mixed up with someone else?

[alisoncooks]

I want to use PLL & ILL, and am now feeling more confident about using it BUT I want my children to also know formal grammar. How would you go about this?

 

Please excuse my thread-jacking...but are PLL and ILL *not* considered formal grammar? What do they fall under? I've seen them under MFW's recs and have planned on using them (possibly in conjunction w/ FLL/WWE)...

 

Thanks!

[joyfulhomeschooler]

Please excuse my thread-jacking...but are PLL and ILL *not* considered formal grammar? What do they fall under? I've seen them under MFW's recs and have planned on using them (possibly in conjunction w/ FLL/WWE)...

 

Thanks!

 

They do teach formal grammar just in context instead of abstractly. FLL teaches the parts of speech, and diagramming. You don't find that in PLL or ILL. That being said though, I love PLL and ILL and that is why I am trying to use them. I just have to have the confidence to do it. They are a great reccomendations in my opinion. You can find ILL on google books and read through the whole thing to see what it covers.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

We are in Oregon and grammar is on the testing as far as I know.

 

I love the looks of the grammar land dowload. Are you the one that made the workseets or is this someone elses blog? I thought I remembered you being a PLL user. Are you still using that? Do I hve you mixed up with someone else?

 

I see now that you aren't the one who made theses worksheets, thanks for pointing me towards them though. Now if only I could get them to print out. Grr.