"A homogenous mixture is where..."

[Michele B]

Please help me explain to dd11 why this is "clunky." Yes, "clunky" is the only way I am able to describe it at the moment. My mind is a blank! :scared: I offered other ways to phrase the idea, but I cannot explain why it is "not preferred." Is someone willing and able to give me a quick way to explain what I am trying to explain?

 

(I told her we needed to change it, and she said, "okay, fine, 'A homogeous mixture is when...'")

:blink:

Edited February 24, 2012 by Michele B

[Cosmos]

Tell her that a linking verb can be followed by a predicate adjective or a predicate nominative:

 

(predicate adjectives)

A homogenous mixture is delicious.

A homogenous mixture is fearsome.

 

(predicate nominatives)

A homogenous mixture is a combination of . . .

A homogenous mixture is a chemistry term meaning . . .

 

It appears that she is trying to follow a linking verb with a subordinating clause. This is somewhat common in informal spoken English ("The reason is because . . ."), but it is not correct.

 

If you've done diagramming, ask her how she would diagram it. She won't be able to do it!

[Michele B]

Ah! Thank you!:thumbup1:

[Haiku]

Tell her that a linking verb can be followed by a predicate adjective or a predicate nominative:

 

Yay! SWB wins again!

 

Tara

[Iucounu]

I second Cosmos's explanation. In such cases I often use "one in which".

[Cosmos]

It appears that she is trying to follow a linking verb with a subordinating clause. This is somewhat common in informal spoken English ("The reason is because . . ."), but it is not correct.

 

 

Actually, on reflecting further, I think my explanation was mistaken.

 

A subordinating clause CAN act as a noun in English sentences, so theoretically the "where . . ." clause could act as a predicate nominative, as in these sentences:

 

The kitchen is where I cook.

The stairway is where the murder happened.

 

In those sentences, however, the subordinating clause that begins "where" describes a place, a location. In each one, the sentence could be rewritten with the word "place" inserted:

 

The kitchen is the place where I cook.

The stairway is the place where the murder happened.

 

In the OP's sentence (or her dd's sentence, I should say), the subject is "a homogeneous mixture." It's conceivable that could indicate a place or location, as in this sentence:

 

The homogeneous mixture is (the place) where the evil wizard added the drops of poison.

 

I suspect, however, that the dd was not using it in that way.

 

Interesting question! It was fun to think it through.

[8filltheheart]

Please help me explain to dd11 why this is "clunky." Yes, "clunky" is the only way I can able to describe it at the moment. My mind is a blank! :scared: I offered other ways to phrase the idea, but I cannot explain why it is "not preferred." Is someone willing and able to give me a quick way to explain what I am trying to explain?

 

(I told her we needed to change it, and she said, "okay, fine, 'A homogeous mixture is when...'")

:blink:

 

I think the issue is simply that "is" is passive. A homogenous mixture "forms" when....... just sounds better to my ear.

[usetoschool]

or "A mixture is homogenous when..." or "A mixture is homogenous if..."

[Michele B]

Thanks, ladies! Thanks for coming to the rescue!

 

"In which" didn't even occur to me!

 

:cheers2:

[Michele B]

or "A mixture is homogenous when..." or "A mixture is homogenous if..."

 

 

I like it! :)

[Classical Katharine]

A p.n. restates the subject, more or less; a predicate adjective modifies/describes the subject. To have a noun subject, "mixture," and a linking verb, then "where"--which is an adverb--leaves "where" in a syntactical position where we'd expect a p.n. restatement or p.a. description of the noun, and little old "where," which is supposed to tell us "where," isn't very good at the job unless it's part of a phrase which actually talks about physical location, in which it does just fine (e.g. "the patio is where the water damage occurred").

 

I do think that the reason it's even done, informally, is that the entire "where and everything after it" section is in fact in a broad way a restatement of the noun subject. We just have syntactical conventions that mean that "where" is not the preferred way to pull something like this off unless we actually mean physical "where." That to me is the main problem here--"where" is about location, "where" is about "place where," while the sentence is about what something is, not where it is. So "where" isn't the right word.

[Colleen in NS]

In the OP's sentence (or her dd's sentence, I should say), the subject is "a homogeneous mixture." It's conceivable that could indicate a place or location, as in this sentence:

 

The homogeneous mixture is (the place) where the evil wizard added the drops of poison.

 

I suspect, however, that the dd was not using it in that way.

 

Yes, what was the whole sentence, OP (clunkiness and all)? We still may be able to show her a concrete grammar problem that she can understand.

 

p.s. I was thinking that if your daughter was trying to *define* "homogeneous mixture" in her sentence, she should look it up in the dictionary or in a science dictionary. That might help her be concise, too.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Colleen in NS