s/o how do you know -- testing???

[mlktwins]

Hi all! I have 6.5 year old twin boys (fraternal) and they are both accelerated learners. From reading Deborah Ruf's book, one of them is likely a Level 2 or 3 and the other is probably a Level 4 or 5. Hence my reason for homeschooling them.

 

DH and I have talked about getting them tested. DH doesn't think it is necessary since we know they are advanced. I want to test them to see what I'm actually dealing with and see if there are any other issues I should know about. I'd also like to see if there is a better way I could be teaching them over the years.

 

My son that is probably a Level 4 or 5 has some mild sensory issues, is very intense and is a bit defiant towards me, DH and my dad. He is an angel for everyone else :tongue_smilie:. I believe he also has a photographic memory. His passion at the moment is playing monopoly. He has 5 or 6 different monopoly games (that do not have the same street names), has them all memorized very shortly after getting them, and has all the rents, mortgages, etc memorized. I don't even have to look at my cards when we play -- he just tells me what I owe him (I do check him on occasion and he is never wrong). He has at least 3 games going on at one time most of the time.

 

My other son is more quiet and reserved. He is smarter than he lets on, but every so often he comes up with something that just blows us away. He is not as interested in doing school as his brother is. I'm interested to see where he really is through testing.

 

Anyway, my question is about testing. I'm going to start researching this more and present the info to DH. I live in Northern VA around may colleges (am close to DC as well) and am wondering if I should take this route or go to a psychologist? What would the difference be between the two (except maybe price)?

 

Both my boys are advanced readers and read most instructions for their work by themselves and answer on their own (I'm always available if they need help though). How much of the various tests given are written? They have never completed a "bubble" type test although I'll be doing one with them in the Spring to submit to the county. Are any of the tests given at this age a "bubble" type test to test for IQ?

 

I'm not even sure if I'm making any sense. I am so out of my league here!!!! Any help/advice is much appreciated!!!

[2smartones]

For a 6 year old, you'd probably want to use the WISC-IV for IQ testing (because 6 is the youngest for that test, and it has higher ceilings than the WPPSI, which would be too easy for some 6 year olds and has fewer subtests). There would be no bubble responses (... at least, I don't remember there being any). If you wanted acheivement testing like WJ-III, there would be some writing, but still, it wouldn't be a bubble style test, and there would be a tester walking your child through it.

[HeatherInWI]

You could also wait until you feel that they're performing at at least 3rd grade level and then get the Iowa Test of Basic Skills (ITBS) with Cogat from BJU testing. The Cogat is a cognitive abilities test -- I can't remember whether it gives an I.Q. or gives something that can be converted (It's been a few years since I used it), but by having my daughter take that test a bit early, I was given a good idea of what her ability level really was.

[Staceyshoe]

We did the WISC and WJ at age 6 with a private psychologist who specializes in highly gifted children. It *was* expensive. We needed the info for ourselves as well as the application process for Davidson Young Scholars program. My main motivation was the DYS program, but the assessment was helpful in ways that I never would have even anticipated. It was worth every penny. (I had contacted all the local universities about testing with psych students. None would reveal the results since the students were in training so we couldn't go that route. Frankly, I've since learned from some forums that even many psychologists who supposedly specialize in giftedness do not know how to use the extended norms with the WISC. If you have a child at level 4 or 5, extended norms would probably be needed for an accurate IQ test. You may be facing ceiling issues and other testing issues that most psychologists aren't familiar with.)

[Iucounu]

Hi all! I have 6.5 year old twin boys (fraternal) and they are both accelerated learners. From reading Deborah Ruf's book, one of them is likely a Level 2 or 3 and the other is probably a Level 4 or 5. Hence my reason for homeschooling them.

You can't tell much from that book; its main use is to convince people in denial that their children may be gifted, which it sounds like isn't the case with you (which is good).

 

It sounds like you don't need to test them, either, unless you need access to programs or for some other reason, such as finding learning disabilities. IQ and achievement testing won't tell you the best way to teach them.

 

If you test, you should realize that you're just doing so just out of simple curiosity, which is of course enough of a justification. If you want accurate results, you should seek out an experienced, reputable tester of gifted children instead of cheap options at local colleges, etc. (tests administered by psych interns, that sort of thing).

[LisaKinVA]

A full evaluation from Johns Hopkins will run 1000-1500. That is where we took our son (we're in No.VA). It will be thorough, however depending upon your child it may not still be completely accurate.

 

My son started playing games (throwing out wrong answers to see if he could get a laugh or a reaction). Our evaluator sensed this and asked more difficult questions, which our son answered without hesitation. Although she couldn't officially "count" the answers for official purposes, she did note in the eval that the FSIQ was probably artificially lowered by our son's gaming, and that it was quite evident that when given more difficult challenges he easily rose to those challenges. She also noticed his writing difficulties (as it was discovered in one of the assessments).

 

You have to beware of those silent-introverted types, sometimes they wind up being the smartest of them all. I knew my dd was bright, but I didn't think there was any way she could be "smarter" or "as smart" as my oldest. However, her introspection and insight puts her on a totally different plane than her older brother. She sees connections immediately, and has a much deeper understanding at a young age than our oldest did. Her gifts (other than highly developed fine motor skills) just weren't as showy. She didn't talk. She THOUGHT. Her grasp of language, music and art just flows naturally. She gets math intuitively... and as an added bonus, does her work without complaint and pours over books for hours. I don't know if she has a 'higher IQ" or not, and it really doesn't matter. She's just a different TYPE of gifted than her older brother.

[Crimson Wife]

You have to beware of those silent-introverted types, sometimes they wind up being the smartest of them all. I knew my dd was bright, but I didn't think there was any way she could be "smarter" or "as smart" as my oldest. However, her introspection and insight puts her on a totally different plane than her older brother. She sees connections immediately, and has a much deeper understanding at a young age than our oldest did. Her gifts (other than highly developed fine motor skills) just weren't as showy. She didn't talk. She THOUGHT. Her grasp of language, music and art just flows naturally. She gets math intuitively... and as an added bonus, does her work without complaint and pours over books for hours. I don't know if she has a 'higher IQ" or not, and it really doesn't matter. She's just a different TYPE of gifted than her older brother.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

This is what was so frustrating filling out paperwork about DS that asks for specific examples of early signs of giftedness. Oldest DD was easy- she was Little Miss Show-Off, highly verbal and highly social. She was the one at 18 mos. old showing off her letter recognition skills while waiting in line with me at the DMV :rolleyes:

 

DS, by contrast, was a late talker and Mr. Independent. So I had to write down things like "he could stack a tower of blocks 6 high at 12 months", "he figured out the multi-step process to work our DVD player at age 2", "he can build with Legos better than his sister who is 3 years older". Hopefully, that will be good enough to get him into the GDC study because otherwise I don't see how we'll have the budget for a formal IQ test.

 

DYS will accept the EXPLORE plus a portfolio so it's not absolutely necessary to shell out hundreds of dollars each for formal IQ and individual achievement testing.

[Sun]

We did the WISC and WJ at age 6 with a private psychologist who specializes in highly gifted children. It *was* expensive. We needed the info for ourselves as well as the application process for Davidson Young Scholars program. My main motivation was the DYS program, but the assessment was helpful in ways that I never would have even anticipated. It was worth every penny. (I had contacted all the local universities about testing with psych students. None would reveal the results since the students were in training so we couldn't go that route. Frankly, I've since learned from some forums that even many psychologists who supposedly specialize in giftedness do not know how to use the extended norms with the WISC. If you have a child at level 4 or 5, extended norms would probably be needed for an accurate IQ test. You may be facing ceiling issues and other testing issues that most psychologists aren't familiar with.)

 

:iagree: If you suspect your child may be level 4 or 5, then he may be approaching or in DYS range. Getting access to Davidson and its network of families was--by far--the biggest advantage of getting testing for us. There are other benefits--the testing results did help us figure out some of the things we were seeing--but for us, everything else pales in comparison to the community of local Davidson families we've met and become friend with. Especially as homeschoolers, having that network has been invaluable.

 

Do be sure to find a tester who specializes in highly gifted kids, though. You need someone who will at least somewhat "get" your kids, both for the actual testing and for the interpretation of the results.

[Iucounu]

Entry to DYS is not really a great reason to test, since most children won't qualify-- nor will most gifted children, since due to the bell curve gifted children will tend to cluster at the bottom of any particular range. And in a particular situation DYS may also be of little to no benefit. For someone without a lot of money, spending $1000+ more, over other cheaper testing options to satisfy curiosity, just to increase the chance of entry may not be the wisest choice. DYS seems to be mentioned as a peculiar sort of status symbol many times here and elsewhere, but the practical benefits are going to vary widely.

[Crimson Wife]

The EXPLORE is inexpensive (we paid $70), accepted by DYS, and useful as practice for the ACT. I think the scores are far more helpful to me in planning purposes in our HS than the IQ score was.

 

The downside is that the EXPLORE is not available everywhere. We had to travel to Reno, NV for it because there were not any CA testing sites. I have heard through the grapevine that families can arrange for individual testing through the Belin-Blank Center in IA but you'd need to find a proctor whom BB will accept.