lcook Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I just got back from the V/V 2 day training and I just wanted to give a quick report in case anyone is thinking of using this program. The training provided a lot of great info. However, I don't believe that the training is necessary. Here is why: - The slides that the instructor used had information retrieved completely from the book/manual. In fact, she would not provide the slides to the participants because she wanted us to get familiar with our book. The book is very clear and presented in a step by step format. - The most enlightening part of the whole training (for me) was watching the videos of actual sessions (these can be purchased on the website). Of course, I won't be purchasing them since I attended the training. However, we only watched part of the videos in class and I wish I had them to see more actual V/V sessions. If anyone is interested I can go through my notes and type some of the highlights. I'm attending the LiPS training next week. - Leslie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacqui in mo Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I have the V/V book and had tried some of it with my son and another little boy I was trying to help. I didn't get very far though. Did they talk about how to know who is most likely to benefit with this program? Do they have statistics on their success rate? It's been about a year since I read through the program so I'm a little rusty on some of the other questions I had at the time. Is it possible for the program to work if you are unable to devote large chunks of time to it? It seems that it is set up to be an intensive, several hour a day marathon. which I cannot do right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plink Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Leslie, Great synopsis. Thanks! Would you mind giving us a similar update on the LiPS training after you complete it? I have access to the videos and have been wondering if the training is over-kill or if it would add invaluable pieces to the program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofkids&pets Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Leslie, I would love it if you would post some highlights from your notes. I am interested in using the V/V program over the summer with my ds11, who has autism. I am trying to "teach" myself the program since I have the manual. I also plan on buying some of the other materials used to implement the program on the Gander Publishing website. I've heard from others that the whole kit has materials I really wouldn't need if I am using this in a home environment and it is quite expensive, so I am attempting to piecemeal this together. I appreciate any info you can provide. Thanks :D! ~Michelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcook Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) I have the V/V book and had tried some of it with my son and another little boy I was trying to help. I didn't get very far though. Did they talk about how to know who is most likely to benefit with this program? Do they have statistics on their success rate? It's been about a year since I read through the program so I'm a little rusty on some of the other questions I had at the time. Is it possible for the program to work if you are unable to devote large chunks of time to it? It seems that it is set up to be an intensive, several hour a day marathon. which I cannot do right now. The insturctor indicated that this program was for those individuals where language seems to go in one ear and out the other. These individuals may have very good reading/spelling skills, but when you start to ask them about what they read (or was read to them) they struggle. This also helps those children that don't follow oral instructions well. Check out chapter 4 in the V/V book - it gives good examples of who will benefit from this program. I don't recall her going into any documented statistics on their success rate. You can call Lindamood Bell and if they have any I'm sure they will discuss them with you. I've called several times and spoke at length with the folks there. They always seemed very eager to answer my questions. In fact, one time they called me back about a week later to see if I had more questions. Our instructor did indicated that in all her time with the company (I think she has been with them for 10+years) she has never had a child that she could not teach imaging to. How this translates to every day life and the success they have...well she didn't go into that. Very good question on the daily intensity and can you have success with working with the child for just an hour a day or an hour a week. The answer we were given is yes. I was in a class with SLPs, reading tutors, special ed teachers and I was the only mom. So, this was a question that came up because the teachers often only have 30 minutes a day or in the case of SLPs one hour a week. Of course, the program will take a lot longer to complete and she did indicate that two 30 minute sessions on different days was better than one hour long session. A little background on their 4 hour days... Lindamood-Bell didn't always do 4 hour per day. The creators are SLPs so they started out with much shorter times working with students. One day a parent across the country heard about the success kids were having with the program and asked if they could condense the amount of time for the whole program (she was hoping to fly out with her son and stay in temporary lodging). Lindamood/Bell decided to give it a shot and found that the child was able to handle it for 2 hours a day and still have energy. They increased the time and the child was still successful so they increased the time again... This was the start of the 4 hour days. The instructor stated that this works very well at the Learning Centers because kids are typically coming in during summer months or even being pulled out of school temporarily. They don't usually get the kids for a whole school year. I was a bit intimidated by the program given their intense sessions at the learning centers. Knowing the history and 'why' they do it at the learning centers has helped ease my concern. Edited January 22, 2012 by lcook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcook Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 Leslie, Great synopsis. Thanks! Would you mind giving us a similar update on the LiPS training after you complete it? I have access to the videos and have been wondering if the training is over-kill or if it would add invaluable pieces to the program. Certainly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merry gardens Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Thanks for sharing. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenbrdsly Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 My BIL went through Lindamood Bell at about age 8 or 9 and it is what finally taught him to read. (He has PDD). It involved a lawsuit with the school district, but my MIL was really pleased with the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacqui in mo Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Did they talk about Seeing Stars or are you going to be looking into that too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Thank you so much for posting. I love V&V, but don't have the time or $ to attend the training, although I do have an older edition of the TM. Your post made me feel so much better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest annieg Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 My son, currenting in 1st grade at PS, is getting Verbalizing/Visualizing therapy every day for 45 minutes. His special ed teacher, who trained in Lindamood Bell therapies, said that's what's recommended by Lindamood-Bell for use in the school settings. He's a bright boy, hyperlexic, with retelling and comprehension issues. They just started when he returned to school after Christmas break, and within 2 weeks, he was describing scenes from cartoons, asking what color something was that we were talking about, being more creative - truly, things both my husband and I noticed. We would have to take a loan out to send him privately, and drive 1.5hrs one way. I'd considered diong it at home, but didn't want to spend $ on yet another set of tools that I'd end up not using. Now? I think it's totally doable at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcook Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 Leslie, I would love it if you would post some highlights from your notes. I am interested in using the V/V program over the summer with my ds11, who has autism. I am trying to "teach" myself the program since I have the manual. I also plan on buying some of the other materials used to implement the program on the Gander Publishing website. I've heard from others that the whole kit has materials I really wouldn't need if I am using this in a home environment and it is quite expensive, so I am attempting to piecemeal this together. I appreciate any info you can provide. Thanks :D! ~Michelle Hi Michelle - As far as the materials go you can get by with just the Instruction manual and either the V/V Story books or the Imagine That Stories. I purchased the V/V Story books because they have all the grade levels, HOT questions as well as some instructor visualization questions. I would highly recommend at least one of the professional DVDs to see exactly what a session looks like. It was very helpful even with taking the class. If you want some extra hand holding you can also purchase the Picture to Picture Book and for even more hand holding the Sentence by Sentence Easel Books. If you don't purchase the Picture to Picture book you will need to find some simple, colorful pictures for the first 1-2 steps. The Sentence by Sentence book is created for a group environment (hence the price), but has more specific teacher lesson questions to help during your sessions. Additionally, you will have to have the structure cards and square felts, but these are easy to make at home. Some key highlights from the class: - Use the V/V language. Every question you ask should point back to the picture in the student's head. e.g. say "What are you picturing for....?" Don't say "What are you thinking for...?" This is very important for every session! - Errors are always handled in a positive, specific manner. Make sure you use the error handling described in the book. We spent a lot of time practicing error handling. The instructor indicated that if a child gets frusterated in V/V it is very hard to get them back into it. Thus, proper error handling keeps the student engaged and participating. - Use choice/contrast questions to get the child verbalizing what they are picturing. Avoid yes/no questions. The instructor kept saying that a perfect V/V session has the child doing most the talking. However, in the beginning the instructor may be asking lots of questions to get the child going. - We are looking for 75-80% accuracy before moving forward in V/V. Really everything the instructor covered seems to be in the book. The only other thing I would recommend is practicing some visualization yourself (especially the later steps). We got to do this in the class and it was very enlightening. - Leslie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcook Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 Did they talk about Seeing Stars or are you going to be looking into that too? We didn't talk too much about Seeing Stars in the V/V program. We did incorporate some of it in the LiPS training (just some additional steps to LiPS). I think a lot of learning centers have started combining the two and our instructor indicated that she wouldn't be surprised if the two programs are combined at some point. I have the Seeing Stars manual and I will use some of the tricks as I teach my son. I plan to move forward with Barton to ultimately teach my son reading. - Leslie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcook Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 Leslie, Great synopsis. Thanks! Would you mind giving us a similar update on the LiPS training after you complete it? I have access to the videos and have been wondering if the training is over-kill or if it would add invaluable pieces to the program. This is a harder question to answer. We were presented with sooo much information during the 3 day LiPS training that I felt like I was running a marathon the whole time. We spent A LOT of time practicing the steps with a partner and the instructor. This 'role playing' was to me the heart of the workshop and the most beneficial portion. I left knowing that I need additional practice discovering the movement of the sounds on myself before I attempt to teach this discovery to someone else. If you have the discipline to really spend the time practicing the steps yourself and watching the DVDs then the training may indeed by unnecessary. I would NOT recommend the 1 day LiPs training. The one day training is just an overview and you don't get hardly anytime practicing. Which, again, the constant practice we had with the LiPs steps was the most beneficial component. The instructor even indicated that everyone who has taken the 1 day LiPs with her left wanting more. I plan to use Barton after I complete just a portion of LiPs. If you are doing just a part of LiPs to get you going with Susan Barton then the steps needed to move to Barton were covered during the first 1.5 days of the class. The last 1.5 days covered later steps that I won't be using. However, they were still benefical since I got more practice with areas I will use (since the program builds on itself). We also covered quite a bit of error handling scenarios on the third day (everyone in the class had some trouble with this). I wish I had a clear answer for you. If you have any specific questions regarding the class let me know. - Leslie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineMama Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Leslie, can you tell me more about the differences between LiPS and seeing Stars. My son is currently doing LiPS w/ his SLP. They have mentioned and considered Seeing Stars but everyone is still thinking LiPS is the best fit for him. Can you tell me what the extra steps Seeing Stars adds? What children benefit most from adding those extra steps? Are the steps during all the lessons or at the end? our SLP does 2 hours a week and I work at home with my son under their guidance 3 days a week. It's a lot of work but going really well so far. I am super pleased -- after almost 5 months we are seeing significant improvement. The one thing that Lindamood Bell people said when contacted about our son is that his age (10) meant Seeing Stars would be a better match. My son definitely isn't one that comprehension is an issue for. He has both "phonological" (auditory) and visual dyslexia. Gah. . . I hate those words because they mean different things to different people but his auditory processing issue is relative to sounds and not hearing differences between several of them. I will wait to say more until you have time to answer. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merry gardens Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) Leslie, can you tell me more about the differences between LiPS and seeing Stars. My son is currently doing LiPS w/ his SLP. They have mentioned and considered Seeing Stars but everyone is still thinking LiPS is the best fit for him. Can you tell me what the extra steps Seeing Stars adds? What children benefit most from adding those extra steps? Are the steps during all the lessons or at the end? our SLP does 2 hours a week and I work at home with my son under their guidance 3 days a week. It's a lot of work but going really well so far. I am super pleased -- after almost 5 months we are seeing significant improvement. The one thing that Lindamood Bell people said when contacted about our son is that his age (10) meant Seeing Stars would be a better match. My son definitely isn't one that comprehension is an issue for. He has both "phonological" (auditory) and visual dyslexia. Gah. . . I hate those words because they mean different things to different people but his auditory processing issue is relative to sounds and not hearing differences between several of them. I will wait to say more until you have time to answer. LOL I'm not Leslie and I didn't do the training, but I can answer since I did portions of both at home. LiPS and Seeing Stars are entirely different programs that have only a slight overlap. Seeing Stars does cover some phonological training, but some children don't have enough phonological awareness to start with SS. LiPS works with auditory processing much more intensely than Seeing Stars. The early focus on LiPS is recognizing the sounds of letters within words by discovering how the mouth, lips, voice box etc. make the various sounds. It teaches them to detect the difference from similar sounds. Seeing Stars doesn't do that, (although someone who knows both programs, such as trained slp or reading specialist familiar with LiPS techniques could potentially mix in some of it in if there wasn't too much confusion between sounds.) The focus on Seeing Stars is on sight memory for words (and common chunks found in larger words) in one's head and learning to read them rapidly. It teaches the child to quickly read common words by sight however it doesn't teach reading simply by teaching sight words. Seeing Stars is enough for some people, and LiPS is enough for some people, but they work on different skills. If your child has problems with both hearing the sounds of letters within words (auditory) and on sight memory for words, (part of the visual aspects) both programs might be helpful. Neither is exactly an Orton-Gillingham program, and if your child has dyslexia, then an O-G program may be worth exploring. And if your child has done LiPS, he's probably wouldn't have to start at the very lowest level of an O-G program. At least at the time when I looked into this, LiPS was well researched and documented to help with phonological awareness problems. It's really a unique program and no other reading program I've seen teaches all that it does. LiPS was developed by a slp, Phyllis Lindamood. According to the SS manual, Nanci Bell (who worked with her and eventually became her business partner in Lindamood-Bell) developed Seeing Stars after she discovered that some of the children she had helped teach to read using LiPS still were reading slowly and spelling poorly. As far as LMB clinic people trying to direct you to Seeing Stars instead of LiPS, I had that same experience on the phone with a LMB clinic when my son was eight (and I found it annoying.:glare:) LiPS required more training and expertise from a tutor. Call me a skeptic, but Seeing Stars is a much easier program to learn to teach, and learning sight words can show faster results without solving all underlying problems, so I'm suspicious when they push SS over LiPS. Maybe not every child needs LiPS, but if a child needs LiPS because he lacks some of the very basic foundations of phonological awareness, then Seeing Stars will not substitute for it. The programs do compliment each other, and there is a slight bit of overlap, but they work on different skills. Edited February 6, 2012 by merry gardens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.