I know the general consensus is that it's okay to start AoPS after SM5..what about MM

[Halcyon]

I have been reading the boards, and it seems the general consensus is that it's fine to give AoPS Pre-A a go with a math-y child once said child has finished SM5B. What about MM5? The S&S are not identical. Has anyone successfully started AoPS Pre-A after completing MM5? We are using IP and CWP, if that matters.

[Halcyon]

anyone?

[Beth in SW WA]

Do you own the prealg text? Chapter 1 of aops prealg jumps right into the distributive property. Chapter 2 deals with exponents. Not sure how MM5 finishes out but you should have a handle on negative numbers before aops. Dd is solid in her prealg but I still don't think she's ready for the depth of aops prealg.

 

Feel free to start aops anytime. Just take it slow. If your ds enjoys that type of text (lots of words, no pictures) then you're golden.

 

Parents who use aops will be able to help you MUCH more than I have. I love the book. It's just not for dd at this point. :)

[wapiti]

My opinion: yes. Indeed, it was written to follow 5th grade math, so that makes sense. (There may be additional considerations that might be better discussed on the accelerated board - remember this thread?).

Oh yes, as Beth mentioned, you need negative numbers. MM5 includes addition and subtraction, but I must have taught dd multiplication and division before I had her do the placement test (which she had all correct). That didn't take long though.

[Halcyon]

Do you own the prealg text? Chapter 1 of aops prealg jumps right into the distributive property. Chapter 2 deals with exponents. Not sure how MM5 finishes out but you should have a handle on negative numbers before aops. Dd is solid in her prealg but I still don't think she's ready for the depth of aops prealg.

 

Feel free to start aops anytime. Just take it slow. If your ds enjoys that type of text (lots of words, no pictures) then you're golden.

 

Parents who use aops will be able to help you MUCH more than I have. I love the book. It's just not for dd at this point. :)

 

Yes, we own the text. We already have covered neg numbers, distributive and exponents. Certainly not the extent that AoPS will cover it (nor with their distinct discovery approach), but we've covered the basics.

 

Re the text-i think he'll be fine. He loves Henle, which is DENSE text LOL. I just wonder if AoPS approach will be a fit for him. I guess we'll try it and see!

[Halcyon]

My opinion: yes. Indeed, it was written to follow 5th grade math, so that makes sense. (There may be additional considerations that might be better discussed on the accelerated board - remember this thread?).

 

Dd10 started AoPS Prealgebra after MM5, and math-wise, I still feel she was well-prepared. The reasons I'm having her take a break from it by trying some Dolciani right now are unrelated to that. She has had her struggles with the AoPS format - some combination of personal learning preferences (the discovery method is not necessarily her thing) and maturity (or daydreaming, or something). She has come a long way, and I'm quite pleased - she has even finally learned how to write out her work in an orderly manner :D. Her first assignment in Dolciani's prealgebra went perfectly today. I might even have her do the AoPS exercises on the same topic (equations) and then possibly pick AoPS back up from there, where we left off, or stay with Dolciani - we'll see next week.

 

I think a different question is whether one might want to do MM6 (or something else sufficiently challenging) first anyway, before AoPS, simply to buy time, and that will depend entirely on the age and personality, etc., of the particular student. I have a similar question in my mind about ds8 for next year. Unlike dd, he tends to just "see" things with math that dd prefers to be told explicitly (they are so similar in some ways and yet soooo different!). He's in third grade but will be finishing MM5 by the end of the school year. He's an unusual kid, both for strengths and weaknesses. On the one hand, I think AoPS would be perfect for him - his name is written all over it, so to speak - but on the other hand, I don't want him to get in over his head in 4th grade, especially in a classroom. The wordiness alone might do him in, unless he learns almost entirely through the lesson problems (which is possible). MM6 is still an option for him - that would at least put off AoPS Prealgebra until 5th. At this point, I don't think that using AoPS after MM6 will ruin the discovery aspect. There are some basic topics (decimals and fractions) that will be more familiar to most students, but trust me, that's a welcome break in the book ;). MM6 does a good bit with ratios too, but that's a challenging area anyway, and I have no doubt there will be more to learn on that topic in AoPS. Ds8's teacher and I will have to have a chat about it - through an unusual turn of events, he will be able to continue with her as she will be changing levels.

 

Oh yes, as Beth mentioned, you need negative numbers. MM5 includes addition and subtraction, but I must have taught dd multiplication and division before I had her do the placement test (which she had all correct). That didn't take long though.

 

Thank you. I like your approach of using multiple texts--i will look at Dolciani. Are you using this one? And we may do portions of MM6 concurrently if I feel he needs extra work. Thanks for your input!

[....]

I have been reading the boards, and it seems the general consensus is that it's fine to give AoPS Pre-A a go with a math-y child once said child has finished SM5B. What about MM5? The S&S are not identical. Has anyone successfully started AoPS Pre-A after completing MM5? We are using IP and CWP, if that matters.

 

Oh, sigh. I'm really in denial about this one. I do need to sit down and come up with a plan, though...don't I? :glare: My daughter is literally flying through Math Mammoth. Ugh. I'm actually having her take this week off from math.

 

I'm sorry if this seems like crazy rambling, but I'm trying to sort it out in my mind.

 

So, I've been thinking...we have several options.

 

1. I think we could complete MM5B and move into Pre-algebra. There's Lials's, Dolciani - those are supposed to be really good. You're already looking into AoPS. The Math Mammoth website has a list of what she thinks are good, solid pre-algebra programs. I might actually buy a good pre-algebra textbook anyway - probably Lial's - just in case someone is having problems, we have another source to search for answers.

 

2. I also think we could complete MM6B and probably move right into algebra. Most of pre-algebra is a review and I'm thinking it might be too much review. My oldest daughter is allergic to review of any kind. :tongue_smilie:

 

3. I'm actually considering moving back into Singapore after we run out of Math Mammoth. My daughter has used SM from the beginning and is really compatible with the SM/MM approach. The only problem with this idea...well, I'm not sure how you would jump ship if - suddenly - the kid didn't like it. The algebra, geometry, trig, etc is all integrated. Also, if something happened and my kids had to go back to ps, I think the school would have a really hard time trying to figure out "what math" they had. I need to spend some time looking through those books and weighing our options.

 

These are my thoughts so far... AoPS looks really neat, but I suspect my oldest daughter might be annoyed by it. I have a son who is 13 months younger - and AoPS is probably right down his alley. But, he doesn't even use a math curriculum, so I need to gauge (on my own) when he is ready for AoPS.

[Halcyon]

Oh, sigh. I'm really in denial about this one. I do need to sit down and come up with a plan, though...don't I? :glare: My daughter is literally flying through Math Mammoth. Ugh. I'm actually having her take this week off from math.

 

I'm sorry if this seems like crazy rambling, but I'm trying to sort it out in my mind.

 

So, I've been thinking...we have several options.

 

1. I think we could complete MM5B and move into Pre-algebra. There's Lials's, Dolciani - those are supposed to be really good. You're already looking into AoPS. The Math Mammoth website has a list of what she thinks are good, solid pre-algebra programs. I might actually buy a good pre-algebra textbook anyway - probably Lial's - just in case someone is having problems, we have another source to search for answers.

 

2. I also think we could complete MM6B and probably move right into algebra. Most of pre-algebra is a review and I'm thinking it might be too much review. My oldest daughter is allergic to review of any kind. :tongue_smilie:

 

3. I'm actually considering moving back into Singapore after we run out of Math Mammoth. My daughter has used SM from the beginning and is really compatible with the SM/MM approach. The only problem with this idea...well, I'm not sure how you would jump ship if - suddenly - the kid didn't like it. The algebra, geometry, trig, etc is all integrated. Also, if something happened and my kids had to go back to ps, I think the school would have a really hard time trying to figure out "what math" they had. I need to spend some time looking through those books and weighing our options.

 

These are my thoughts so far... AoPS looks really neat, but I suspect my oldest daughter might be annoyed by it. I have a son who is 13 months younger - and AoPS is probably right down his alley. But, he doesn't even use a math curriculum, so I need to gauge (on my own) when he is ready for AoPS.

 

I hear you.

 

I have Lial's Pre and Dolciani Pre coming in the mail. I own BCM and AoPS Pre so I will do a little comparison, along with screenshots, on my blog when I get them all. I think they're all absolutely solid. The question is more which one will my son be happiest using.

[wapiti]

2. I also think we could complete MM6B and probably move right into algebra. Most of pre-algebra is a review and I'm thinking it might be too much review. My oldest daughter is allergic to review of any kind. :tongue_smilie:

My two cents on this issue - the amount of review amongst "prealgebra" texts varies considerably. Depth varies, as does amount of conceptual teaching. For example, something like Lial's BCM will be much heavier on review and lighter on bridging into algebra than Lial's prealgebra. I think a good prealgebra will tie concepts together that were approached individually in elementary math, i.e., have lots of concepts at work in a problem. As you know, MM6 is not intended to be a prealgebra (at a minimum, it's missing the pythagorean theorem and square roots), though there is a good deal of overlap of some prealgebra topics. However, the prealgebras that I've seen - having just spent a weekend combing through the Dolciani - take things a bit further. All this to say, if you have a student who is moving along rapidly, and you wanted to avoid the overlap between MM6 and a prealgebra, I think you'd be better off doing the prealgebra. Alternatively, you could do MM6, and then skip any redundant lessons you come across in the prealgebra on a page-by-page basis. But I wouldn't skip using at least portions of a prealgebra text at some point - there are a few key topics that can't be missed, plus typically a lot more work with equations. As long as you stay flexible and on top of things, it'll be fine either way.

 

Also, as an aside, the MM prealgebra worksheets are nice, but I don't think they can substitute for a good text. I think they're good for situations where you need a smitch of extra practice on a particular topic, or a quick review.

 

(for more "average" students who don't fly through math at light speed, I'd still do both MM6 and then a prealgebra, probably one that doesn't spend too much time on review. That would be very solid preparation for algebra.)

Edited May 26, 2015 by wapiti

[Jenmomof3]

I'm so glad this thread is here. I've just started researching and trying to plan this out for next year. I thought I'd add my tentative plans to the list.

 

My ds finished SM5B about a month ago. I've switched him over to MM as I didn't feel SM6 was meaty enough. I've had him do the MM5B integers unit (since it wasn't covered in SM) and am now moving him on to MM6A & B. Once he's done with that, we'll use a pre-algebra (probably AoPS) to cover anything we've missed; we'll just skip what we've already covered. So, the year after, when he starts 6th grade, we'll be able to move right into algebra. Like I said I'm still looking at all the samples, so this may change, but for the moment that's the plan.

[....]

I'm so glad this thread is here.

 

Me, too. I feel so clueless. Just when I thought I had this homeschooling thing figured out...

[Spy Car]

For those with young'uns I am struck (as I begin working through in AoPS Prealgebra myself) how many of the concepts like the Distributive Property were beautifully introduced in easy-to-understand and internalize ways in the Miquon Math-lab materials.

 

I have showed some of the introductory chapter in AoPS to my 7 year old and he got it right away. Not that at AoPS is a good choice for second graders, just that I continue to be impressed how using Miquon as part of a "math mix" (in our case along with Singapore) prepares children for advanced study.

 

Sorry to go "off-topic."

 

Bill

[....]

For those with young'uns I am struck (as I begin working through in AoPS Prealgebra myself) how many of the concepts like the Distributive Property were beautifully introduced in easy-to-understand and internalize ways in the Miquon Math-lab materials.

 

I have showed some of the introductory chapter in AoPS to my 7 year old and he got it right away. Not that at AoPS is a good choice for second graders, just that I continue to be impressed how using Miquon as part of a "math mix" (in our case along with Singapore) prepares children for advanced study.

 

Sorry to go "off-topic."

 

Bill

 

I have been looking through pre-algebra samples (I think it was DM) and I saw topics covered in Miquon. Miquon has been priceless in our homeschool. :thumbup1: I just wish it kept going a little further. My Miquon-Dude (the 9 yro) will probably end up using AoPS Pre-Algebra later.

[Beth in SW WA]

I hear you.

 

I have Lial's Pre and Dolciani Pre coming in the mail. I own BCM and AoPS Pre so I will do a little comparison, along with screenshots, on my blog when I get them all. I think they're all absolutely solid. The question is more which one will my son be happiest using.

 

Sounds like you are wanting to do a prealg program before/in addition to/instead of aops prealg. The formats of those traditional programs are vastly different from aops. What is your ultimate goal for your son's math? Do you want a traditional sequence in case he goes to high school? Are you wanting him ready for math competitions?

 

A traditional alg series (like Larson which my older dc used) is great for transitioning to a rigorous school program. My dd8 will attempt Larsons at some point in the next couple years since my goal is for her to go to high school. Possibly even take math outside the home during the middle school years.

 

Just curious what your goals are.

 

 

Also, as an aside, the MM prealgebra worksheets are nice, but I don't think they can substitute for a good text.

 

:iagree:

[Beth in SW WA]

My two cents on this issue - the amount of review amongst "prealgebra" texts varies considerably. Depth varies, as does amount of conceptual teaching.

 

:iagree:

Dd8 is finishing up a light prealg program now (TT) and it doesn't hold a candle to the CD prealg text. Since she is young & prefers a visual formal it is ideal to use TT. Short, sweet lessons. Lots of review. Bells & whistles. She gets prealg elsewhere in the week. I use some pages of the Aufmann/ CD text with her as well. Lots of Khan Academy. SM to keep decimals/percents fresh.

 

No two prealg programs are created equally.

 

ETA: Nevermind, Halcyon. I see you answered many of these questions in the other thread on the logic board. :)

Edited January 18, 2012 by Beth in SW WA
clarify