DB in NJ Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 She just doesn't get it, and she is beyond frustrated at this point! We've done Lial's, we've done Arithmetic & Algebra AGAIN. For Algebra, we've done Math-U-See and Teaching Textbooks. Every single time she gets frustrated and upset. She says she can't remember stuff (she knows her facts; just can't remember which operation to use, etc.). Right now, I have her going through the Keys to Algebra series, and today she was stuck on a very simple word problem in Book 3! I'm at a total loss and have no idea what to do for her. Would you find a tutor? Have her tested? Have her take a class at the cc? My oldest had a hard time with high school math too (he did better in geometry than algebra) and had to take a remedial algebra course at the community college. He passed....he said it was "easier" in a classroom. HELP!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I would try very hard to get a tutor rather than shifting curriculum again. If that doesn't work, I'd try the class -- it may be that someone else will have a method of explaining that will stick with her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB in NJ Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 I have absolutely no plans of changing curriculum. It is very obvious that there's a problem, I'm just not sure how to go about fixing it, but I know the curriculum is NOT the problem. Thank you! We have a friend from church who tutors math. I think I'll give her a call :) dd hates the idea, but she'll do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smilesonly Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 :grouphug::grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie in MN Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 You know, I think there are two really basic skills to double-check. One is math facts, which can start really holding kids back when they get to fractions and beyond. The other is the skill of thinking things thru. This often requires modeling, sitting beside them, showing by example how you approach something you can't remember how to do, or never knew how to do. I think it's a skill outside of the "math lesson," which only practices what you just learned, and often is promptly forgotten. Instead, kids need the ability to approach a random problem that could come from anywhere, and need to develop the skill of coaxing out the math memory. Often this involves just trying a few different things you know how to do, to see if any of them help. We parents often use this method when we correct their work and haven't done something in a long time. Too many kids I've worked with are afraid to just try something. To speed it up, I might stick tiny numbers into the equation to make it easier to do, and see if it works or not. I'll substitute 2, 3, and 4 for complex terms. I might even visualize 2 cubes, 3 cubes, and 4 cubes, performing the operations on them, to see where they end up. This way, when something doesn't work, it isn't because "I forgot the formula," but it's because I can see that it just doesn't work that way. When I try to explain this on various math threads, it sounds like it wastes time or is childish. But I really feel it's an overlooked skill. Real math, and real math understanding, needs to go outside of formulas to just get comfy working with the numbers, without fear, confident that you can just figure out what you are doing with the numbers. Kind of like a good cook jumping in fearlessly to figure out where a recipe went bad. And sometimes that is best learned by an adult sitting alongside the student and modeling how we approach something we haven't tried in a long time. Over and over :tongue_smilie: Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 To speed it up, I might stick tiny numbers into the equation to make it easier to do, and see if it works or not. I'll substitute 2, 3, and 4 for complex terms. I might even visualize 2 cubes, 3 cubes, and 4 cubes, performing the operations on them, to see where they end up. This way, when something doesn't work, it isn't because "I forgot the formula," but it's because I can see that it just doesn't work that way. This is a heck of a good point. I don't often explain it in class, because it can confuse. But I do use it while tutoring. If it doesn't work for a few simple values, it's likely invalid. Knowing that your memory is wrong is half the battle! For example -- let's say Joe Student forgets how to multiply fractions. He has two obnoxious algebraic fractions to multiply and forgets if he gets a common denominator or not. Joe says "Hmm. I know half of a half is a quarter. That means 1/2 times 1/2 is 1/4. It looks like I was supposed to multiply the numerators and denominators. Let's check again. Half of a quarter is an eighth. So 1/2 times 1/4 is 1/8. Yeah, it still fits, and come to think of it that algorithm sounds familiar." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freerange Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 This is a heck of a good point. I don't often explain it in class, because it can confuse. But I do use it while tutoring. If it doesn't work for a few simple values, it's likely invalid. Knowing that your memory is wrong is half the battle! For example -- let's say Joe Student forgets how to multiply fractions. He has two obnoxious algebraic fractions to multiply and forgets if he gets a common denominator or not. Joe says "Hmm. I know half of a half is a quarter. That means 1/2 times 1/2 is 1/4. It looks like I was supposed to multiply the numerators and denominators. Let's check again. Half of a quarter is an eighth. So 1/2 times 1/4 is 1/8. Yeah, it still fits, and come to think of it that algorithm sounds familiar." :iagree: How does she do with real world maths, out in the field, with not a text book in sight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) That is a good point about not understanding how to solve problems. This applies to other types of problems, not just math problems. I teach mine to: 1. Write down what you know (called the "givens") and assign them variable names. Make sure you include the units. Think about how to convert any relationships into math language ("and" means +, etc.). Draw a picture if possible. 2. Write down what you are looking for (called the "unknowns") and assign them variable names. Include the units. 3. Think about how to link the givens to the "unknowns", how to make a path from one to the other, how to get from one to the other. Try to think about any formulas you know that include both, or any common sense ways of getting from the givens to the unknowns. You might have to work backwards. 4. If you are missing information, reread the problem and see if you missed anything. There might be a relationship between something or something that is common sense that they didn't actually state in the problem. 5. Convert your units so they all match. 6. Solve the problem. (Usually involves juggling the formula around so that the unknown is alone on the left-hand side and then plugging in your givens.) 7. Reread the problem to make sure what you did makes sense and to find out what units the answer must be in. 8. Convert the units of the answer to the ones asked for. An example: Jo had 3 inches of twizzler. Together, Jo and Susie had a foot of twizzler. How many feet of twizzler did Susie have? (Make sure she knows that in problems like this, it is assumed that nobody has anything in their pockets and that you are dealing with a frozen moment in time - in other words, nobody has had time to eat anything or give anything away or be given anything more.) 1. J = the amount of twizzler Jo has T = the amount of twizzler they both have J = 3" T = 1' = 12" Picture: |---| ..J... |------------| ......T........... 2. S = the amount of twizzler Susie has S=? 3. J+S=T 6. S=T-J S=12"-3" S=9" 7. S must be in feet and my answer for S is in inches, therefore I must convert. 8. 9" x 1'/12" = 9" '/12" (inches cancel) = 9/12 ' Simplify: 9/12 = 3/4 Answer: 3/4' This problem used a formula (a relationship) to solve a problem. This works for other problems, like: "Where did I put my car keys?" 1. What do I know? I had them when I drove in the driveway. 2. I need them now to go to the grocerystore. 3. So, path between the two: What happened after I drove in the driveway? I'm missing all that information. 7. Think back. I know I didn't leave the keys in the car because I've looked there. The phone was ringing when I walked into the house and I was in a hurry to answer it. I ripped off my mittens and dug the phone out of my purse. I was holding the keys when I did that. I wasn't holding the keys when I answered the phone. Therefore, the keys might be with my mittens. Go find the mittens. No keys. Hmm... What else might have happened? They might have fallen on the floor. Look on floor. No keys. Where else might they have fallen? Shoes under mittens. Maybe they fell into a shoe? Empty shoes. Voila! Keys in Dad's boot. 8. Take keys to car so can go to store. The key problem used "guess and check" to solve the problem. Some problems can be solved by drawing a picture, working backwards, analyzing the units, or solving a simplified for first. HTH Nan Edited January 10, 2012 by Nan in Mass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy in Australia Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Have you looked at Khan Academy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacy in NJ Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I believe most CC's in NJ use the Accuplacer. You can purchase a prep book from amazon. I'd consider just preping with the book possibly with a tutor then allowing her to take the CC exam and a class - wherever they place her. http://www.amazon.com/Bob-Millers-Math-Accuplacer-REA/dp/0738606731/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1326202851&sr=8-3 I have absolutely no plans of changing curriculum. It is very obvious that there's a problem, I'm just not sure how to go about fixing it, but I know the curriculum is NOT the problem. Thank you! We have a friend from church who tutors math. I think I'll give her a call :) dd hates the idea, but she'll do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB in NJ Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 Thank you all. I feel better, like I'm at least on the right track here. Yesterday when she was so frustrated with the word problems, I did exactly as you guys described here. I sat next to her, talking through the problems, writing down what we know, what we don't know, etc. We drew pictures and diagrams and substituted easier numbers and units. We talked a little bit about it this morning, and she agreed that she just needs to have a good attitude and not close her mind to the ability to learn math. She also knows we'll be sitting together working through each problem together. I do think we need to do more review of the basic facts every day just to keep them fresh in her mind. She *knows* her facts but I think she gets so frustrated and preoccupied with her "I hate math" mantra that she can't think of anything at all! I'll let you know how it goes :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB in NJ Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 Today was a much better day! Her attitude was fantastic, she didn't feel "dumb", and she did very well with the word problems. I think maybe she had a case of "christmasvacationisoverandiain'tdiggingmath"-itis yesterday :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 We had a bad case of ChristmasvacationoverandnowIrememberhowmuchIhateFrenchgrammaritis yesterday, too, the two of us. No, I don't remember what an article is. Ug. Coming back from vacation is so hard. Nan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiramisu Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Donna, in your first post you mentioned the possibility of getting your dd tested. I would consider that possibility. It could be extremely helpful to you and your dd to explore whether there may be an underlying issue and if there's something you can do about it, not to mention getting accommodations for the future. Kids can be very bright but still have an area of struggle that indicates a specific issue. I've just been through this with my 16 yo, and I'm so thankful I followed up on these long term concerns. It's something I would not have been able to figure out without testing, and the information we got may really help her in the future. And, IMO, it can never hurt. Since you live nearby, pm me if you are interested in details, possibilities of where to go, etc. All the best, Kelli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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