Is it possible to combine Charlotte Mason-style narrations & ASD?

[Chocolatemuffins]

We are in the early stages of getting a diagnosis of DS1 (6). I thought he was ADHD but it looks like there is actually some aspergers traits in there. The paeditrician actually thinks there is no ADHD and only aspergers :confused: We will hopefully get to the bottom of it once she has more reports back from people who have contact with him outside the home.

 

In the mean time, it may explain some of the problems I've been having with DS's school-work. He is high functioning and his reading is very good. But he hates narrations. I'm not fully Charlotte Mason but would like to incorporate some parts, especially narration. I think it would help him towards creative writing which he also finds a struggle. It would also help him with understanding people's emotions and feelings in stories.

 

He actually prefers workbooks to free-form study so I use Queen's Language Lessons. He does a bit better with a picture to narrate/talk about as there is something concrete to latch onto.

 

He loves listening to stories, but when I ask him what happened he just freezes. Even when I ask him specific questions he doesn't really like it. I also ask him what a character is feeling at certain points in a story and he often says he doesn't know.

 

Does anyone have any ideas for helping him improve this skill?

Edited November 16, 2011 by Chocolatemuffins

[lifesajourney]

:bigear:

[Stacy in NJ]

And, much patience. :D

 

If he's not interested or capable of talking about a character's feelings, I'd focus on just the facts. This happened first, then this happened, then this, and finally this happened. Keep it very basic initially. Be persistence in attempting to just get him talking, but allow a lot of flexibility in what he actually chooses to discuss/focus on. Once he's beginning to be more comfortable with simply talking about the story, then guide him towards the more relevant information and sequence with gentle questions. Once he's comfortable doing that with picture books move on to very short stories. Aseop's Fables are a terrific transition device.

 

 

 

We are in the early stages of getting a diagnosis of DS1 (6). I thought he was ADHD but it looks like there is actually some aspergers traits in there. The paeditrician actually thinks there is no ADHD and only aspergers :confused: We will hopefully get to the bottom of it once she has more reports back from people who have contact with him outside the home.

 

In the mean time, it may explain some of the problems I've been having with DS's school-work. He is high functioning and his reading is very good. But he hates narrations. I'm not fully Charlotte Mason but would like to incorporate some parts, especially narration. I think it would help him towards creative writing which he also finds a struggle. It would also help him with understanding people's emotions and feelings in stories.

 

He actually prefers workbooks to free-form study so I use Queen's Language Lessons. He does a bit better with a picture to narrate/talk about as there is something concrete to latch onto.

 

He loves listening to stories, but when I ask him what happened he just freezes. Even when I ask him specific questions he doesn't really like it. I also ask him what a character is feeling at certain points in a story and he often says he doesn't know.

 

Does anyone have any ideas for helping him improve this skill?

[nitascool]

My ds 10 had a very similar problem with narrations and summaries as you have described here. He has PDD-NOS, SPD and ADHD-combined. Charlotte Mason style doesn't work to well for him. I try to incorporate materials used in CM, book lists, nature studies, etc. But we have to do them in a much more structured way then what she suggested. Structure is key for him.

 

Here is how we have helped our son retell stories. First we focused on details of the story. At age six we knew it was an issue so we started sequencing half hour shows. We used stuff like Dora the Explorer which has three steps repeated often throughout the show to give him the idea of sequencing... plus we used sequencing workbooks. He needed each step broken down.

 

During school for History I did the narrations with him. He needed daily examples to finally catch what I was asking him to do. Once he learned sequences about mid-1st grade we began to analyze characters. I asked who are the characters and what are they doing. He was able to do this by end of second grade without prompts anymore.

 

Finally we did motives, things like, "Why did Billy get mad at his sister in the story?" We spent several years discussing why people did what they did. I told ds why his brother would get annoyed at him when he got to close, why the other kids teased him when he spouts out facts like a machine gun etc. We used movies and cartoons a lot to explain why characters behave the way they do. Now at 10 he can tell me most of the time why a character is doing x,y or z. But even still he has to be made aware of the behavior... he doesn't automatically see it.

 

With the freezing up I think you might do best narrating for him. Read a story then retell it in your own words... I'd do this not just a few times, but 30 or 40 times or until he indicates to you that he understands. Then ask him to retell a story after he has seen/heard it mimicked many times. I would not even attempt motivational questions until he is older. So teach each step separately: Sequence, characters (names of), details, and then motives. Motives are abstract and need a lot of contextual information most Autistic 6 year olds have not yet notices.

 

Hope this helps.:001_smile:

[Critterfixer]

It is very difficult for my hFA son to do all of the steps required for narration. So we break it down into steps. I don't do a lot of CM style narration (Read-I'm lazy and don't like to rewrite something that was better told by the author.)

 

One thing that really helped my son with narration (and we still use this) is to read something more than once (two to four times) before even thinking about taking a narration on it. Not a CM thing, but let me tell you, it helps.

We might read once, then I might actually draw out the story in sequence by way of demonstration. The next day we might read it and do action/consequences. We might take copywork or dication from the reading the next day. Only after I've read the thing multiple times and taken it apart will we put things back together in a narration.

Currently I tend to stick to short pieces that tell a whole story in a few paragraphs at most. I try to use things that do not require a lot of back-story before I read. I stay away from emotions and focus more on action and consequence. Aesop's Fables are a great starting place.

[Walking-Iris]

My ds8 (pdd-nos/ocd/spd) has a lot of trouble with this as well. It's odd because he was tested by speech therapist as having auditory processing issues several years ago and now he is tested as having above average auditory processing. We go to speech mainly for pragmatic issues and he has just finished a pragmatics test that he scored below K level when he took it in Feb and now he's scored above 4th grade level this week. I attribute a lot of that jump to us starting cm style narrations more intensely and sotw this fall. But he still has a lot of trouble articulating what he is thinking---I know it's in there but getting those words out of his brain and into complete sentences is difficult. He just gets so frustrated and says "I just don't know!" Or he'll cry "you're not understanding me."

 

I just re-read and re-read and painstakingly talk him through it. I also let him write narrations. He can write out his thoughts perfectly. But then ask him to tell me what he just wrote (not read it-- but tell me) and oh boy. I've even talked to our speech therapist about it and we have decided to stop speech and do 3 month "piggybacking" therapy with her---where she will work with him on oral language skills and abstract math and vocabulary topics (some I provide and some she provides). This is something she does with adults who have had strokes and she says she's never done it with a child, but we're going to give it a go since my ds adores her.

 

But boy there's a lot of re-reading like critterfixer said---and reviewing that I begin to think we'll never get through it all in a year.

[Critterfixer]

Another reason to delay narration by a day or so (and reread) is that ASD children (and I'm talking about myself and my son as my frame of reference, so take it with a grain of salt!) process things differently. I've lost count of the number of times I've read or said something while my little boy seems to be miles away, only to have him repeat the information or make some association between what we read and something else DAYS later. It was in there, and in there good, but you couldn't get it out until it had played around in his mind for a while.

I'm the same way. Stuff can be gyrating around, but it might be a while before I can come up with a coherant analysis or organization of it. BTW, I see that as something of a strength, not a weakness.:D

 

As an example of my son doing that, after our SOTW work with Chin Shi Hong Di he was not able to give me a good narration, even after we worked with it for a while. I gave it up, not worth breaking my back over, and the NEXT WEEK I found a video on the clay army at the library. As soon as he saw the army in the first part of the movie, before they said anything other than where the soldiers were, he said, "Oh, this is about Chin Shi Hong Di."

Go figure. He'd internalized and I just didn't know it. Just because a child can't throw up the information on command doesn't mean they didn't get it.

[Chocolatemuffins]

Thanks guys! Loads of great ideas :)