Is vision therapy going to fix this?

[Misty]

Okay, so we are 3 weeks into our vision therapy with a wonderful doctor.. Thanks to OhE for giving me that final push into the VT's door!!

 

Anyway, I haven't seen any improvements yet, but it's still early. We are doing a lot of reflex integration exercises in the beginning because my daughter has a retained moro reflex.

 

My daughter is 8 and is still writing all her numbers in mirror image. And this week, I noticed she is also trying to write them from right to left. For example.. She was supposed to write the number 50. She wrote 05, but she wrote the 5 first and then the zero (right to left).. She also wrote the five backwards.. :confused1: It was a perfect mirror image of the number 50. She continued to write all the numbers she was writing in this exact fashion even though I kept correcting her.

 

Is vision therapy going to fix this? It seems like it could be significant dyslexia on top of the visual issues.. She writes letters backwards too, but not consistently like the numbers. Some letters are backwards and some aren't. She does still reverse when she is trying to read and she changes words, omits words, etc. She is still struggling with reading fluency. Will vision therapy be enough for her? When she did 3 months of public school last year, they said she was "at level" and not dyslexic. They did agree with her Asperger's and ADHD diagnoses after some of their own evaluations (she's been diagnosed since the age of 5 by a private psych). I don't know what to think!!

Edited November 6, 2011 by Misty

[PeterPan]

Misty, my dd didn't have the severe reversals you're dealing with, but here's what I would do in your shoes. One, I'd talk with your VT doc about it. I know they could oversell and make it sound like VT cures EVERYTHING. Nevertheless, you need to talk about it and have the reassurance of hearing some good answers. I think you have a long haul here. Not interminable, but not overnight either. You've got the retained primitive reflexes AND the basic vision issues AND processing AND... kwim? You've got layers, so it's going to take some time. You see what he says, but I would think you're going to see progress in terms of months. With us, I could look back as each month passed and see something was different. The first month, not so much so. But definitely by the end of the 2nd month. So give it time and keep talking with him.

 

Two, I think you're right to ask if there's more you should be doing. Has your dd expressed any interest in hands-on things? Someone asked about the Davis method a while back, and I was kind of surprised when I googled it. See I had read about it some time ago and thought it was quackery. This time though, watching the videos, something finally clicked in my mind. I think they're really onto that idea of the hands-on, the modeling, the claying, and the interaction between that and the VISUALIZATION of these kids in their minds. See, if you buy Freed's opinion in RightBrained Children in a Left-Brained World, ADHD/ADD kids are generally VSL. So you have this weird combo of *wanting* to use their visualization but not having the visual ability to. YET.

 

So what you're wanting to do is hatch that and let that side burst forth, kwim? So I think you're exactly right that you can pair the VT with lots of time to do hands-on things like the claying of the Davis method or even just sculpting. If you get the American Girl magazine, there were some really cute little figures in there that my dd made today out of what turns out to be a homemade fondant recipe. I just think it's no coincidence that these kids, who otherwise would be so prone to reversals given their wiring, are so drawn to hands-on things. It's a form of self-therapy. So google for some youtube videos of people doing the claying of the Davis method and see what you think. I think it might make a lot of sense to you and be something you could implement with her, if not formally then informally.

 

Sculpey is good, Model Magic, fondant (make cupcake toppers!). There's just lots of fun stuff to work with.

[Misty]

Thank you so much, OhE! I'll definitely look into the Davis method and all it entails. She is a very hands-on, visual child.. constantly trying to make things,, very crafty.. She has an excellent visual memory so I think she really would benefit from this and enjoy it too.. Thanks so much.. Can't wait to investigate and see what I can find out.. I've been avoiding this dyslexia issue for so long.. In denial, I think.. She does definitely need the vision therapy.. She has been evaluated by 3 different VT's and they all found the same problem areas.. so I am not questioning the VT... It is money well spent. But like you said.. I think we have many layers to peel back.. What a ride!!! Thanks again.

[laundrycrisis]

Misty, the first three months of DS1's VT was establishing a dominant hand and then learning to track from left to right in relation to that. Before that part of the therapy, it made no difference to him whether he was going right or left with either writing or reading. He had huge reversal issues. So yes it does help those.

[PeterPan]

Well good! I remember how helpful it was to me when someone finally pointed out that those things she craves ARE therapy. Sort of validates it and gives you a reason to spend more on it or make more time for it.

 

If you haven't tried Sculpey, it's amazing. There's a basic level she can start with. You can find it at Michael's or anywhere and use the 40% off coupon. We get white, because you can paint it with acrylic paints after baking. Dd finally this year started doing a bit more with making an armature (wire frame) and using nicer paints, different types of mediums, etc. I wouldn't say it's something she does every day, but she did it a LOT when she was little. She'd sculpt things we were reading about in history or just whatever interested her (dogs, cupcakes, volcanoes, ballerinas, King Friday the 13th, hehe). The videos I saw of the Davis method seem to take that to the next level, letting them sculpt and handle their LETTERS and words. I think it's just marvelous. It will make a lot of sense. I don't know if the weight matters for that. I'd probably be inclined to try Model Magic, as it would air dry and not be fragile. But if the weight matters, figure out what they're saying to use.

 

My dd also did a lot of making clothes for dolls. She would just look at the doll and cut fabric and roughly stitch it together. You never know what will happen if you give them some supplies like that, kwim?

 

If you want to turn this into a Christmas present, you might look for a silpat mat for her and some tools to go with the Sculpey. She's old enough to use them. I got my dd a pasta roller one year at Joann's during their Black Friday sale, and she enjoys that a lot. Oh, the Silpat is just because I don't like the mess. That way she can lay it down anywhere, work, and just roll it up to put away. We don't need one more thing to clean, lol. Then just get a basket or bin to store everything in. The Sculpey comes in a waxy box and doesn't naturally airdry, so it's ok to stay in the original container. There are also some neat books on working with polymer clay she might enjoy (how to make characters, figures, etc.). Not that she'll want to slow down and look at the steps, hehe, but it's still fun to look at.

[JessicaLady]

I'm not sure what your child's dx is but we, just by coincidence, started VT at the same time we began Physical Therapy. Listem to me! 'We', but you know what I mean. PT has also been working on integrating several of these retained primitive reflexes. Many of his activities also have a visual motor component in addition to doing things w/ interactive metronome. I've found the combined treatment to be SUCH a gift. I NEVER thought he had issues w gross motor because he was always so strong.

 

However, he was always clumsy, we had the 'daily spilling of the milk', etc. I assumed was a vision issue but I happened to mention during one of his OT visits and they suggested a PT eval as well.

 

I just wanted to mention this because I had never heard that children could retain these reflexes and then I find out they're related to both vision and gross motor development.

 

Jessica

 

ps....I do apologize for going a bit off topic and being quite wordy. I'm just so passionate about our special kids and want to share something that we have benefitted from.

[PeterPan]

Jessica, so you have a PT doing IM with you? Very interesting. It's one of the things we've looked at but not gotten done...

[Misty]

Thanks Jessica.. We have already done IM.. We did it as part of our behavior therapy program on and off for over a year. I really like IM for these special kids. And yes, there is definitely what appears to be a gross motor issue with my daughter that probably stems from her visual issues and retained reflex.. She is clumsy and one of those kids who is just "all over the place" when standing next to you. She can't be still or stay off of things or stop knocking things over.. Constantly moving.. She did OT for almost a year when she was 5, but they mainly focused on fine motor as that was very delayed at the time. I've never thought of a PT eval for her.. If we've done OT, IM, and VT, would we need PT too?

[PeterPan]

Misty, I'm surprised the OT didn't catch the retained primitive reflexes ages ago. Was it an OT that specializes in SPD?

 

If it's any consolation, my dd's ability to walk without whomping into things improved DRAMATICALLY with VT. :)

[wapiti]

Thanks Jessica.. We have already done IM.. We did it as part of our behavior therapy program on and off for over a year. I really like IM for these special kids. And yes, there is definitely what appears to be a gross motor issue with my daughter that probably stems from her visual issues and retained reflex.. She is clumsy and one of those kids who is just "all over the place" when standing next to you. She can't be still or stay off of things or stop knocking things over.. Constantly moving.. She did OT for almost a year when she was 5, but they mainly focused on fine motor as that was very delayed at the time. I've never thought of a PT eval for her.. If we've done OT, IM, and VT, would we need PT too?

 

If the OT only addressed fine motor (which may be more of a "downstream" symptom of a bigger problem with the nervous system), you might consider OT for SPD. Addressing gross motor issues (and presumably the reflex issue) typically would precede work on fine motor.

[Misty]

I was frustrated with our OT.. I kept asking her to work on sensory issues, but she insisted that dd's fine motor delay and ADHD were her main issues.. She did do *some* sensory activities and "body in space" type stuff.. But after dd learned to write her name and attend to a lesson for so many minutes, she said we could stop coming. It's been over 2 years since we stopped going.. do you think I should have another OT eval done?

[Misty]

Misty, the first three months of DS1's VT was establishing a dominant hand and then learning to track from left to right in relation to that. Before that part of the therapy, it made no difference to him whether he was going right or left with either writing or reading. He had huge reversal issues. So yes it does help those.

 

Thanks.. this is helpful.. I originally thought her issues were mild and we wouldn't be in VT for more than 4 months.. the VT has predicted 24 sessions, I think it was.. I don't know about that now.. I'm going to show her how dd writes her numbers when we go to therapy this week. She had her write single digit numbers for the evaluation.. So she couldn't have seen her write from right to left because she was only writing one number at a time! I don't know if this is significant information in the whole big picture of VT.. Don't know if it changes "the plan" from what we will already be doing.. But I'll mention it to the dr anyway.

[Misty]

Misty, I'm surprised the OT didn't catch the retained primitive reflexes ages ago. Was it an OT that specializes in SPD?

 

I don't think so.. Just a regular OT that our insurance sent us to. I didn't realize there were specialty OT's! And I had no idea that an OT could check for retained reflexes!! I'm starting to feel like we didn't have a great OT!:glare:

 

If it's any consolation, my dd's ability to walk without whomping into things improved DRAMATICALLY with VT. :)

 

That's good to know.. I am sooooo hoping and praying that she improves in so many areas with this VT.. she really has a lot of issues.

[JessicaLady]

Thanks Jessica.. We have already done IM.. We did it as part of our behavior therapy program on and off for over a year. I really like IM for these special kids. And yes, there is definitely what appears to be a gross motor issue with my daughter that probably stems from her visual issues and retained reflex.. She is clumsy and one of those kids who is just "all over the place" when standing next to you. She can't be still or stay off of things or stop knocking things over.. Constantly moving.. She did OT for almost a year when she was 5, but they mainly focused on fine motor as that was very delayed at the time. I've never thought of a PT eval for her.. If we've done OT, IM, and VT, would we need PT too?

 

I say if you have insurance, do a PT eval. It's definitely worth looking into. We've been in ST and OT for 5 yrs. My initial reason(s) for bringing up PT w/ OT were: continued clumsiness and toe walking. All the sensory techniques weren't working and.....PT found that he actually now has weakened muscles and anatomically cannot walk heal to toe. Jasper has always been very unaware of his body in relation to others/objects but has really improved. For the last year or so OT has moved away from sensory (although still adresses on a smaller scale) and moved onto more fine motor skills (zipping, buttoning, writing, etc).

 

What's so interesting is when I tell the PT what we've been working on in VT and she says 'oh, then we'll try this today and see how he does'. And sure enough, he has improved. One of these is throwing a bean bag at a target. This is only something he does there but was improved by exercises he was doing w/ his vision therapist.

 

It's a lot to keep up with all these therapies. However, I'd rather suffer through it now that to be 10yrs down the road saying "I wish I'd.....". The idea that chilren retaing these reflexes and they all exhibit them in such similar was is so surprising to me. I sometimes get upset that PT was only initiated b/c of me and they should know my son by now. On the other hand, I'm really thankful that things are starting to come together.

 

Jessica

[JessicaLady]

Jessica, so you have a PT doing IM with you? Very interesting. It's one of the things we've looked at but not gotten done...

 

 

Yes. I hadn't heard of it in this capacity before. I thought was mostly w/ something like ABA, but I wasn't sure. She showed me what it was about and I have to tell you I don't think I could tolerate it myself. It is EXTREMELY frustrating and ultimately draining. That is one of the exercises she does with him. Her goal will be to work up to 1,000 reps. I think he's around 400 now.

 

J