More STEM higher ed. discussion!!

[MIch elle]

This is the rub. We have a college prep track and funnel EVERYONE into it except special ed students. :001_huh:

 

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Faith

 

 

Doesn't your area have a vocational/technical high school?

[snowbeltmom]

Wow. Your posts are eye opening. Hopefully your school is an exception overall. What surprises me is that there isn't any push to get it all changed - whether from the teachers' date=' the parents or even the students. They must realize, after graduation, how much they've missed and how ill prepared they are for college courses. I can't imagine how difficult it is for a graduate from there to manage in a STEM major. NCLB at it's finest. Ugh.[/quote']

Creekland's high school sounds very similar to our local school - very high GPA's with SAT scores in the low 500's for each subtopic. (A friend of my oldest had straight A's all four years of high school yet had a 24 ACT.)The school has the highest state rating possible and is listed in Newsweek's expanded list of top public high schools. The school does a great job of publicizing these accolades and most of the parents think the school is top-notch.

 

Curious after reading this thread, I got on the school's website to check out their pre-calc syllabus to see how it compares to my son's pre-calc class. The book title is not listed, but the teacher makes a point of stating that the students only have 85 days (block schedule) to review for the State tests in math and prepare for AP calc the following year. The class only covers 6 chapters in the pre-calc book. Maybe that explains why all the students, with the exception of one, received a score of "1" on the AP Calc exam the year I requested the scores;).

 

A friend of mine was commenting that her freshman son was really struggling in his college intro chemistry class. He never had the opportunity to take AP Chemistry in our high school because it was offered the same time period as his AP Physics B class. As a result, he entered college with only 4 months of high school chemistry. The school is not even offering AP Chemistry this year. I feel sorry for the kids who are capable of so much more than this school is providing.

[regentrude]

A friend of mine was commenting that her freshman son was really struggling in his college intro chemistry class. He never had the opportunity to take AP Chemistry in our high school because it was offered the same time period as his AP Physics B class. As a result, he entered college with only 4 months of high school chemistry. The school is not even offering AP Chemistry this year. I feel sorry for the kids who are capable of so much more than this school is providing.

 

I hear things like that from my college students all the time. Schools that do not offer any physics classes. Schools where the highest math is trigonometry. Schools where physics is taught by a biology teacher who is skipping whole chapters because she admittedly does not understand the material.

[creekland]

Wow. Your posts are eye opening. Hopefully your school is an exception overall. What surprises me is that there isn't any push to get it all changed - whether from the teachers' date=' the parents or even the students. They must realize, after graduation, how much they've missed and how ill prepared they are for college courses. I can't imagine how difficult it is for a graduate from there to manage in a STEM major. NCLB at it's finest. Ugh.[/quote']

 

Working here has been really eye-opening to me. I went to the 2nd best public high school in NY (at the time it was 2nd best as per test scores). Our school emphasized academics and did all it could to prepare us and track kids correctly according to their ability. It frustrates me academically to work where I do, but it's where we decided to live. It's also what got me interested in homeschooling...

 

Teachers, parents, and students are mostly local and have never had any experience with a GOOD school. They assume other areas simply have more talented kids. It's not true. We have kids who were just as capable as my peers and I were. They just don't have the opportunity nor the expectations to get there.

 

It is very difficult for a student from here to do well in a STEM major. Some do, but they usually have a tough time transitioning their freshman year. I've clued a few in (on the side) to doing more outside of class to have a better foundation. They appreciate the advice. Most aren't so motivated though. They feel if they are top kids in our school that they will be top wherever they go with no effort. They don't realize that a 1500 or even a 1700 SAT isn't a top score. Those come back and end up at community college.

 

Private schools don't require MA teacher tests. Could you teach at a Catholic or other private school?

 

 

Yes, I could, but there are few private schools around here. We're rural. There is one Catholic high school the next town over. That's where my guy takes the ACT and AP tests since our school doesn't offer them. In hindsight we could have had our kids go there, but we're not Catholic so never really considered it. Homeschooling worked for my older two. My youngest likes ps and is willing to work outside of school to augment his education. We'll see where it leads him.

 

 

That is VERY strange to have ALL freshman take alg. 1A & 1B. :confused:

 

:iagree: And I very much disagree with the policy. But with the book we use and the school policy, it's not going to change.

 

Doesn't your area have a vocational/technical high school?

 

We don't. It's one BIG thing we need.

 

Creekland's high school sounds very similar to our local school - very high GPA's with SAT scores in the low 500's for each subtopic. (A friend of my oldest had straight A's all four years of high school yet had a 24 ACT.)The school has the highest state rating possible and is listed in Newsweek's expanded list of top public high schools. The school does a great job of publicizing these accolades and most of the parents think the school is top-notch.

 

Curious after reading this thread, I got on the school's website to check out their pre-calc syllabus to see how it compares to my son's pre-calc class. The book title is not listed, but the teacher makes a point of stating that the students only have 85 days (block schedule) to review for the State tests in math and prepare for AP calc the following year. The class only covers 6 chapters in the pre-calc book. Maybe that explains why all the students, with the exception of one, received a score of "1" on the AP Calc exam the year I requested the scores;).

 

A friend of mine was commenting that her freshman son was really struggling in his college intro chemistry class. He never had the opportunity to take AP Chemistry in our high school because it was offered the same time period as his AP Physics B class. As a result, he entered college with only 4 months of high school chemistry. The school is not even offering AP Chemistry this year. I feel sorry for the kids who are capable of so much more than this school is providing.

 

Low 500's? We don't even hit 500 for our average verbal or writing SAT subtests. We might hit 501 for math. We're below average for our state and we're on our 2nd year of failing to hit state standards (which are pretty low). Next year we have some sort of state takeover, but I'm not sure what that entails.

 

Our school dropped almost all AP tests (I think AP European is the only one we still offer) a few years back when our students would score 1s. We'd usually have a couple of 2s and if it was a good year a student would get a 3. A very rare year would have a 4 or 5, but those were the students who did more outside of class to help themselves. Now we have these college in the high school classes... where kids get college credit automatically (from schools who accept those credits). They don't actually know any more than before though. They just think they do.

 

I can't complain too much. The College Alg class is at least a "real" Alg class. Students who apply themselves and work to learn the algebra often bring their SAT scores up 100 points or so (yes, a 600 is considered a really good SAT score). When our kids aren't learning algebra in our "normal" classes, they need something before they hit college - esp if they want a STEM major.

 

I cringe when I see really capable kids who want to do great things get shafted by what our school offers. We have some who are getting all As or close to it and who want to be doctors - yet have 1500 SAT scores (all three sections). They have a tough road ahead.

[snowbeltmom]

I hear things like that from my college students all the time. Schools that do not offer any physics classes. Schools where the highest math is trigonometry. Schools where physics is taught by a biology teacher who is skipping whole chapters because she admittedly does not understand the material.

Yet colleges like Pitt will question a homeschooler's academic preparedness even with ACT scores in the 99%, but will have no reservations accepting public schooled students with far lower test scores because they have a certified "official" transcript.:confused:

[creekland]

Yet colleges like Pitt will question a homeschooler's academic preparedness even with ACT scores in the 99%, but will have no reservations accepting public schooled students with far lower test scores because they have a certified "official" transcript.:confused:

 

Well... few students from our school would ever make it into Pitt anyway and those few who do tend to be our top students.

 

When I was a little more naive and didn't quite have a tactful moment in the guidance office I mentioned that Pitt was one of our safety schools. One of the counselors looked at me in surprise and asked what I said, so I repeated it. Then they shook their head and said, "Wow. I've never heard of anyone considering Pitt (main campus) a safety school before."

 

It was still one of our safeties... but I don't say that out loud anymore there.

[LauraQ]

Regentrude;

I guess I meant "too hard" from a student's motivational stand point as in "here I am doing yet another messy org. chem. problem at 2AM but, this stuff is just so cool". That's what kept me in the game. Can there be a way to keep things fascinating?

 

I don't think the problem is with the material being uninteresting. I think the problem may well lie within the bored minds of the students who are incapable of getting excited about *anything* academic. I think some students do still love to learn, but not most. Perhaps it's always been that way, or perhaps it's new. In any case, I don't think it's necessarily the fault of the profs for not jumping through hoops to make org chem "fun and exciting" for their students.