5th grade WTM history coordinated w/SOTW1 ??

[2_girls_mommy]

I am just starting to read and research about logic stage (which starts next year!) so forgive me if my questions are silly.

 

Reading another thread about history got me thinking about it. My plan has been to do WTM history w/odd next year for logic stage, and use SOTW 1 with my then 3rd grader.

 

Has anybody done this? Do you have any tips? Do you have the older child listen and re read SOTW vol. 1 then look that up in the encyclopedia and go from there (which wouldn't be much different from what we are doing) or do you have the older child go spread by spread through the Kingfisher and do SOTW separately w/the 3rd grader?

 

We have Famous Men of Rome, and I am considering Famous Men of Greece as well. Any thing else we should buy? What do I use for mapwork?

 

 

I wouldn't mind having something planned out, but will be spending lots on science next year and since I have the SOTW and FM and Kingfisher, it would keep costs down if I could stick with what I have.

 

On the flip side, is there a plan somewhere that would coordinate what I do have that is inexpensive and would not require me to buy much else?

 

Thanks for any help or insight you can give.

[redsquirrel]

I think lots of people do this. They have the grammar child working at grammar level and the logic child working at the logic level.

 

I had my 5th grader in his second round of Ancient history and my k/1st in his first. The younger did SOTW with the AG, lots of activities and extra reading. The 5th grader did Ancient history as per TWTM. He did weekly readings, narrations and outlines.

 

My boys like to be doing the same thing at the same time. They just do. So, I used SOTW table of contents to give my 5th grader direction. I did not use SOTW 1 with him. That was for two reasons. One is that it is for grammar stage children and really would be written at too low a level for him. The second reason was that he had already been through SOTW 1 in first grade. Now, did he listen in? Probably. He also did all the activities with his brother because they are totally fun. But, he had his own reading etc to do.

 

This year, we are in the second year of the 4 year cycle. Both are doing Medieval history. The younger is using SOTW2 and the elder has his own readings, narrations and outlines.

 

It is very simple.

[2_girls_mommy]

We also will be starting our 2nd cycle, and have used SOTW from the beginning. My dd went through vol. 1 in 1st as well. I plan on keeping them on the same cycle as I have from the beginning. I guess I just need more details on TWTM logic history, and how to keep them together. They would not really be together if I am doing projects and readins with dd1 on chapter 1 of SOTW and dd9 is doing the first spread in KHE, kwim? I guess I need more direction on the day to day.

 

I think my main question on that was do you do it as written (using the kingfisher spread by spread starting at the beginning) or use SOTW as the guideline of what to cover each week, using the readings from the top of the A.G. for the pages for the logic stagers' readings? It sounds like you do the latter? That makes sense, although some things would be left out.

 

Do you have a system for your other readings besides the encyclopedia that is working?

 

What are you using for map work?

[Chris in VA]

I didn't teach my dd's 5th grade, but had I not sent her to ps, the plan was to use the AG readings in Kingfisher, then let her choose a topic to do further research on each week (or more likely each 2 weeks or week and a half). For map work, we were going to use the AG maps and just add in some extra work--like, have her label the countries, rivers, and bodies of water, and make a key on the map.

 

I think going ahead and reading SOTW together and then assigning the KF pages to your eldest (and have her write down facts as in WTM), and then having her do some further research on topics of her choice from the week, would work very well. She could, for example, pick one of the topics in the "inbetween" pages of the KF to explore further that week. She could sit in on some of the projects, too. Seems relatively straightforward.

[2_girls_mommy]

Yes, that seems to make the most sense.... I just started thinking about it today. Probably overthinking.

 

I think doing the SOTW readings together, then the KHE readings from the A.G. makes the most sense. Then they really are together. And they can do projects together which is just fun. Then I just have to figure out how to schedule the outlines and narrations that will be due, etc. I haven't reread the history notebook section yet.

 

Logic stage just seems like such a jump. I have such a routine going from the last 4 yrs, kwim?

 

I am still not convinced on the mapwork. I like your idea of using the SOTW maps but adding more work. I hadn't thought of that yet. Thanks.

 

Any more ideas?

[....]

Thanks for starting this thread. I think I might use SOTW next year, too. If you do a thread search about using SOTW for the logic stage, there are a bunch of threads about it. It sounds like many people have done this.

 

It is really weird to switch gears out of the grammar stage, isn't it? I don't want them to be in perpetual grammar stage until 9th grade, tho. :tongue_smilie: I'm planning to be very confused throughout the next school year.

[redsquirrel]

We also will be starting our 2nd cycle, and have used SOTW from the beginning. My dd went through vol. 1 in 1st as well. I plan on keeping them on the same cycle as I have from the beginning. I guess I just need more details on TWTM logic history, and how to keep them together. They would not really be together if I am doing projects and readins with dd1 on chapter 1 of SOTW and dd9 is doing the first spread in KHE, kwim? I guess I need more direction on the day to day.

 

I think my main question on that was do you do it as written (using the kingfisher spread by spread starting at the beginning) or use SOTW as the guideline of what to cover each week, using the readings from the top of the A.G. for the pages for the logic stagers' readings? It sounds like you do the latter? That makes sense, although some things would be left out.

 

Do you have a system for your other readings besides the encyclopedia that is working?

 

What are you using for map work?

 

 

I am not sure who you are asking but I will answer, lol.

 

I did not use SOTW for my logic stage child. It is to simplistic, esp vol 1. SWB has said that 1 and 2 are too narrative for the logic stage child and should not be used for outlining. Volume 3 is a maybe and 4 should be able to be outlined.

 

WTM logic stage history has 6 steps.

1. read a section of an encyclopedia and make a list of 6-8 facts that the student finds interesting. Give the student free choice of those facts

 

2. Find the country on a globe and in an atlas

 

3 Timeline work. Use dates from the encyclopedia for the timeline

 

4 Have student go to the library and pick a book on one of the facts she found interesting. Read the book

 

5. Write a narration of the reading. It should be about 6-8 complete sentences

 

6. Pick a section of the reading of about 250 words. Have the student make a one point outline of the reading

 

Steps 1-3 can be done on the same day. Steps 4&5 can be done on another day. Step 6 is it's own day. At least that was the way I did it. YMMV. I did not have my student go to the library. It just wasn't convenient for us. Instead I picked a reading based on whatever was in the encyclopedia. I used the K12 book "Human Odyssey", the Oxford "The World in Ancient Times" series, some biographies I purchased etc. I bought the K12 book, and the Oxford books were at my library.

 

I did not use Kingfisher for year 1, but I am using it for year 2. I will use something different for year 3&4. For year 1 I used "Kingfisher Book of the Ancient World". I would look in the SOTW table of contents and find a 2 page spread in the Book of the Ancient World and have my son read that for his list of 6 facts. These are to be written in complete sentences etc. Then he found it on a globe and put it on the timeline. Later in the week I gave him a reading from Human Odyssey or something else. Generally it was something he could read in one sitting, but occasionally it was longer. He would write a narration of 6-8 sentences and we would talk about it. The third history session of the week involved outlining. I would pick a section from what he had already read and have him create a one point outline. For the first few weeks I sat with him while he did it. I even had him read me each paragraph outloud and then state what the main topic was. After a few weeks of that, he was ready to do it on his own.

 

If you read in TWTM pages 278-283 has all of this laid out. It is the subchapter titled "How To Do It".

 

So, I do use SOTW with my grammar stage child, but not my logic stage child. He may listen in when I do reading with my younger and participate in activities, but he doesn't use SOTW for his study. I use SOTW TOC to determine what I do each week. That is really all.

[....]

I did not use SOTW for my logic stage child. It is to simplistic, esp vol 1. SWB has said that 1 and 2 are too narrative for the logic stage child and should not be used for outlining. Volume 3 is a maybe and 4 should be able to be outlined.

 

You don't think SOTW 1 could be adapted to logic stage history?

 

Darn its. :glare:

 

Edited to say: What do you think about her other history books? Are those too difficult for logic stage?

Edited November 2, 2011 by starrbuck12

[2_girls_mommy]

I guess I am not being clear. Wouldn't be the first time:tongue_smilie:

 

I am editing because that was a big ramble. Thank you red squirrel for being so specific. It is really going to be helpful. I think I am getting an idea now. What do you do for maps? Is using the globe enough for you?

 

I may do that and use the SOTW maps w/extra filling in.

Edited November 2, 2011 by 2_girls_mommy

[redsquirrel]

You don't think SOTW 1 could be adapted to logic stage history?

 

Darn its. :glare:

 

Edited to say: What do you think about her other history books? Are those too difficult for logic stage?

 

It is my opinion, and SWB has said, SOTW1 and 2 are not appropriate for outlining. Other people do use it. So, you have to make that decision for yourself. If a student had not done the 4 year history cycle before SOTW might make good weekly reading in addition to other reading. But I don't think it would suffice for all the reading. Again, you have to decide that for your own student. SWB's other history books are for high school students at minimum. But, again, you have to decide that for yourself. I plan to use them in high school.

 

I guess I am not being clear. Wouldn't be the first time:tongue_smilie:

 

I am editing because that was a big ramble. Thank you red squirrel for being so specific. It is really going to be helpful. I think I am getting an idea now. What do you do for maps? Is using the globe enough for you?

 

I may do that and use the SOTW maps w/extra filling in.

 

I happen to have bought Pandia Press History Odyssey and I am doing the map work from that this year. Last year we just looked on a globe and in an atlas. I found that to be sufficient. I will go back to doing that next year. He already has 4 years of mapwork in the grammar stage. I don't really see the need for him to do more than show me he can find places.

[2_girls_mommy]

I agree about the other SWB history books. I checked out the Ancient one and it is not light reading. I will save it for high school too.

 

I have not researched many of the books redsquirrel listed for logic history. I will be starting with those. It would be nice not to have to search for her readings for next year, and to just have them on shelf. I will still get library books for my younger, but I will have the SOTW A.G. to guide me there.

[redsquirrel]

It would be nice not to have to search for her readings for next year, and to just have them on shelf.

 

I know, I know. Trust me, I know.

 

But, looking back at last year, it wasn't that hard, really. I would look at the TOC of SOTW, find a corresponding spread in Kingfisher and look in the index of Human Odyssey for the reading. I spent about as much time on it as it takes to write out that sentence. Every now and again, the spread in Kingfisher would be a repeat. No biggie. Either we would skip the 6-8 facts for that week or I would use another encyclopedia.

 

Human Odyssey didn't have much on Egypt. It has chapter after chapter about Sumer though. So, we did more reading about Egypt from The World In Ancient Times. A Usborne book on Egypt would have been fine as well. Just make sure you are matching up the period of time in Egyptian history. You come back to Egypt a couple times in Ancient history because Egypt goes on and on and on and is so important.