unschooling vs classical or other methods

[Jenny in GA]

Plenty of people on this forum do unschool their kids in atleast some of the subjects. They forego not only formal curriculum, but also formal kinds of outputs such as written reports, etc., the aim being to inculcate a love of learning and a love for the subject in the child.

 

For example, in Science and History I started out with a formal curriculum, sequence and plan. But when I realized my ds was just going through the motions instead of being excited about learning, I abandoned the specific scope and sequence I had planned out for him and instead we are following an interest led approach. The topics we choose are often "out of sequence", rather they grow organically from his interests.

 

 

This isn't really unschooling, though. I too don't use a formal curriculum for science, but I don't believe that makes me an "unschooler" by anyone's definition.

 

If you visit the biggest unschooling yahoo groups; or the most popular unschooling forums, or read a book written by an unschooling parent, or go to an unschooling conference, the things I described earlier (no chores, unlimited screen time, no requirements to read, etc) ARE what you will read/see/hear. Period.

 

And anyone who challenges it -- either by disagreeing, or even just saying, "Well, we unschool, but I do limit TV" will get jumped all over, by the moderator and others. They will be told they are hurting their children, that they are compromising unschooling, and -- like someone else here said -- that they need to change their perspective.

 

Jenny

[AnnaM]

If you visit the biggest unschooling yahoo groups; or the most popular unschooling forums, or read a book written by an unschooling parent, or go to an unschooling conference, the things I described earlier (no chores, unlimited screen time, no requirements to read, etc) ARE what you will read/see/hear. Period.

Jenny

 

This has been my experience too though someone who claims to unschool but still limits considers this to be radical unschooling. By a strict definition, however, the above seems to be the generally accepted definition. Unschooling seems to not only be a method of homeschooling but also a parenting philosophy.

[jplain]

This isn't really unschooling, though. I too don't use a formal curriculum for science, but I don't believe that makes me an "unschooler" by anyone's definition.

Yep. Most of the unschooler lists seem to agree that unschooling is all or nothing. Unschooling some subjects but not others is an oxymoron.

 

The more acceptable description for a mix-and-match approach is to say you're child-led in some subjects but not others.

 

I've several friends who started out as unschoolers with their preschoolers and Kindy-age kids. A few years have gone by, and all of them seem to be sidling away from that approach, though all of them are still very relaxed.

[....]

This isn't really unschooling, though. I too don't use a formal curriculum for science, but I don't believe that makes me an "unschooler" by anyone's definition.

 

If you visit the biggest unschooling yahoo groups; or the most popular unschooling forums, or read a book written by an unschooling parent, or go to an unschooling conference, the things I described earlier (no chores, unlimited screen time, no requirements to read, etc) ARE what you will read/see/hear. Period.

 

And anyone who challenges it -- either by disagreeing, or even just saying, "Well, we unschool, but I do limit TV" will get jumped all over, by the moderator and others. They will be told they are hurting their children, that they are compromising unschooling, and -- like someone else here said -- that they need to change their perspective.

 

Jenny

 

IMO, those groups are not unschooling. That's fine if they want to call themselves that. :glare: I'm not even sure they're homeschooling. Someone needs to take back the concept of unschooling.

 

Here is an article that talks about the history of unschooling, starting with John Holt. http://lifewithoutschool.typepad.com/lifewithoutschool/2007/09/what-is-unschoo.html

 

Here's a definition of unschooling:

 

..."unschooling" could be considered the process of learning by living, life schooling, or interest-led schooling, where the child learns as adults learn - by pursuing their interests, and seeing where those lead them." (quoted from http://christianunschooling.com/faq/ )

 

Everybody unschools to an extent.

 

I'm seeing a lot of articles on "interest-led learning" and I think that is probably closer to the original concept of unschooling than the radical unschooling. I think the real unschoolers are calling themselves relaxed homeschoolers or interest-led homeschoolers.

 

I think it's just nuts that people have taken unschooling...which was working with your kids in a way that did not look like school at home...and turned it into "play as much video games as you want" and "I can't say no to you" or whatever that everyone keeps mentioning.

 

FWIW, half of our schedule is interest-led homeschooling. We only have one TV in our house and it is N O T allowed to be on during the day. I also ask them (before we start school), "Dude, what's your plan?" And they'll come up with a project of some kind and tell me about it. My daughter's recent project has been creating mini-guide books on plants and pocket pets (That just cracks me up and I don't know why I think that's funny :lol: ).

 

Anyway, everyone unschools to an extent. My only regret on this matter is that the first two years of homeschooling, I was such a stringent box-checker that I didn't give my kids enough time to pursue things that interested them...or let them go off and come up with a project on their own. If it wasn't in my planner, we didn't have time (and I filled up that planner!). This resulted in my son really not liking schoolwork of any kind and I was always stressed out because I thought the boxes needed to be checked off by a certain time. Once I loosened the reigns (and started scheduling interest-led time for them or getting their input on what they wanted to study), I started seeing things like, "Mom, I want to be a map-maker when I grow up" :tongue_smilie: and stuff like that. There's a lot that control-freaks like me can take away from the unschooling world.

 

Anyway, I probably rambled off the subject. That's my opinion on that. :D It's time for another cup of coffee!

[Free]

Here's a definition of unschooling:

 

..."unschooling" could be considered the process of learning by living, life schooling, or interest-led schooling, where the child learns as adults learn - by pursuing their interests, and seeing where those lead them." (quoted from http://christianunschooling.com/faq/ )

 

Everybody unschools to an extent.

 

I'm seeing a lot of articles on "interest-led learning" and I think that is probably closer to the original concept of unschooling than the radical unschooling. I think the real unschoolers are calling themselves relaxed homeschoolers or interest-led homeschoolers.

 

I think it's just nuts that people have taken unschooling...which was working with your kids in a way that did not look like school at home...and turned it into "play as much video games as you want" and "I can't say no to you" or whatever that everyone keeps mentioning.

 

Absolutely :iagree:

Perhaps radical unschooling is a form at one end of the unschooling scale but by no means the only one. It is unfortunate that whenever the term unschooling comes up it is seen as equivalent to educational neglect, when in fact most forms of unschooling are anything but. Parents have to be many times more involved and have to use all their creativity to make unschooling work. In many cases it is in fact so much easier to just use a readymade curriculum than to design your own activities and projects. Unschooling can be hard work.

 

Some really great ideas in education have come from the unschooling philosophy. It does great disservice to all of the homeschooling community IMO to lump all of the unschooling world under one label and denounce it all as bad.

[WishboneDawn]

IMO, those groups are not unschooling. That's fine if they want to call themselves that. :glare: I'm not even sure they're homeschooling. Someone needs to take back the concept of unschooling.

 

Here is an article that talks about the history of unschooling, starting with John Holt. http://lifewithoutschool.typepad.com/lifewithoutschool/2007/09/what-is-unschoo.html

 

Here's a definition of unschooling:

 

..."unschooling" could be considered the process of learning by living, life schooling, or interest-led schooling, where the child learns as adults learn - by pursuing their interests, and seeing where those lead them." (quoted from http://christianunschooling.com/faq/ )

 

Everybody unschools to an extent.

 

I'm seeing a lot of articles on "interest-led learning" and I think that is probably closer to the original concept of unschooling than the radical unschooling. I think the real unschoolers are calling themselves relaxed homeschoolers or interest-led homeschoolers.

 

I think it's just nuts that people have taken unschooling...which was working with your kids in a way that did not look like school at home...and turned it into "play as much video games as you want" and "I can't say no to you" or whatever that everyone keeps mentioning.

 

FWIW, half of our schedule is interest-led homeschooling. We only have one TV in our house and it is N O T allowed to be on during the day. I also ask them (before we start school), "Dude, what's your plan?" And they'll come up with a project of some kind and tell me about it. My daughter's recent project has been creating mini-guide books on plants and pocket pets (That just cracks me up and I don't know why I think that's funny :lol: ).

 

Anyway, everyone unschools to an extent. My only regret on this matter is that the first two years of homeschooling, I was such a stringent box-checker that I didn't give my kids enough time to pursue things that interested them...or let them go off and come up with a project on their own. If it wasn't in my planner, we didn't have time (and I filled up that planner!). This resulted in my son really not liking schoolwork of any kind and I was always stressed out because I thought the boxes needed to be checked off by a certain time. Once I loosened the reigns (and started scheduling interest-led time for them or getting their input on what they wanted to study), I started seeing things like, "Mom, I want to be a map-maker when I grow up" :tongue_smilie: and stuff like that. There's a lot that control-freaks like me can take away from the unschooling world.

 

Anyway, I probably rambled off the subject. That's my opinion on that. :D It's time for another cup of coffee!

 

I think David Albert (And The Skylark Sings With Me) offers a great example of that kind of unschooling.

 

I don't think radical unschooling is a horrible or unfortunate thing. Sometimes we need the radicals to push our ideas of what's normal and without them there would be little change. There was a lot of value that I learned in the years we did it that I still carry with me.

 

It's not what I or my husband want for our family now though. It's not what we enjoy and not what benefits the kids at this stage. One thrives with rigorous work and the other has some sort of learning or processing issue that impairs his learning in some areas if we aren't sitting down and actively addressing it. Radical unschooling, like every other choice in life has it's advantages but also it's disadvantages and you always have to keep that in perspective and weigh it against your family's needs and goals.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

This isn't really unschooling, though. I too don't use a formal curriculum for science, but I don't believe that makes me an "unschooler" by anyone's definition.

 

If you visit the biggest unschooling yahoo groups; or the most popular unschooling forums, or read a book written by an unschooling parent, or go to an unschooling conference, the things I described earlier (no chores, unlimited screen time, no requirements to read, etc) ARE what you will read/see/hear. Period.

 

And anyone who challenges it -- either by disagreeing, or even just saying, "Well, we unschool, but I do limit TV" will get jumped all over, by the moderator and others. They will be told they are hurting their children, that they are compromising unschooling, and -- like someone else here said -- that they need to change their perspective.

 

Jenny

 

:iagree: I have read the same nonsense on unschooling boards about not setting limits or having any expectations of children:( That is foolishness IMHO.

Edited October 27, 2011 by priscilla

[Walking-Iris]

We have always unschooled. I started out very much in the unschooling camp. But I guess I am more relaxed than unschooling because I do expect certain things to get done everyday and I do pick out most of our materials. I do believe that "unschooling" means different things to different people. For me it was just finding a lot of interesting materials, books, projects and not stressing about what I call "school requirements"---grades, tests, reading levels etc. Although we have played with those concepts---my son loves a big happy face 100% to be at the top of his math pages. :tongue_smilie:

 

Saying my son is in 3rd grade is so weird for me---it's more a way to communicate to others his age and useful for when people ask him or we do co-op and sports. But in reality the "grade level" of what we do fluctuates. He's probably behind or accelerated in different areas, maybe even in different topics among the subjects. But that's my definition of unschooling----I'm not grading him, giving him tests, or "holding him back" or anything that is a very bureaucratic ps way of thinking. We just try to learn everyday what is necessary and not an option (spelling, math, grammar etc--things I feel it would be way too risky to wait for a child to show interest in or learn on their own. What 8 year old just says "I'm ready to learn about prepositional phrases"?) and try to have fun with everything else, and not stress about the "shoulds"---that's my main gripe with ps and really structured homeschooling---the "shoulds".

 

Radical unschooling---unlimited tv or vid games, bedtime whenever, blah blah, never appealed to me. I absolutely cannot stand Sandra Dodd (sorry but there it is). I do try to live somewhat consensually with my kiddos. I respect their ideas about what to wear and what they want to play or how they want their room etc. (As long as it does get clean lol ). But they do have chores and a bedtime etc. I'm not going to force them to read a book just because it's in the "curriculum" either---they can read what they like. As long as they are reading. I pick our read alouds and that usually leads to them expanding their reading choices. And I do censor some things---if I don't feel that a book is very good (morally, educationally, whatever---my parental alarms are going off) then it's not checked out or in the house.

 

I do use some curriculum. I do have a structured time for math and lang. arts. and a few other things. I did pick SOTW as our history and I have picked out the science and a few other topics. I want my kids to be exposed to certain things, but where my unschooling heart comes into play is with following my children's lead. If SOTW isn't eliciting some interest (and it hasn't so much) then I shelve it and we do some Am. History (which my son likes better). If we don't do SOTW1 this year or at SWB suggested timeframe will the world end? Nope. I don't follow the homeschooling books or programs I use to the T...they're more like interesting resources I can dip into and use what I like and what I think would work or be fun. I don't like books that are scripted and tell me what to say and how to do it and when, and I don't stress about so-called grade levels.

 

And I know that I would be jumped on in unschooling boards for having those limits. But if you read Patrick Farenga, David Albert or Mary Griffith, you'll find that a lot of unschoolers do have limits---usually tailor made to their unique family situation. I've actually been disturbed with the radical unschooling trend in past years.

Edited October 27, 2011 by Walking-Iris

[veggiegal]

This was my experience of researching unschooling as well, which included loads of reading, and spending time "observing" unschoolers, both online and IRL. It was next to impossible to find anyone admitting that any part of it didn't work for them. Anyone who was brave enough to come into a forum looking for help with a problem related to unschooling was quickly educated on how the only problem was their perspective, that it was their own problem to solve by changing their perspective, and that it would be wrong for them to impose this wrong perspective on their kids. :001_huh: This was not at all unusual. I saw it over and over.

 

.

 

This "cult" mindset is a big part of why I no longer call myself an unschooler. Not being able to question things without being told the problem is with you, the questioner, is the EXACT OPPOSITE of the mindset I want to support/instill in my children.

[Walking-Iris]

I think I understand what you're saying. I don't say we're unschoolers either---after all it's JUST homeschooling right? Whether you're unschooling, charlotte mason, Thomas Jefferson, classical, k12 online, Waldorf, Enki,---whatever it may be that works---it's just homeschooling.

 

But I've noticed that if I say we're unschooling then others seem to have an attitude that makes presumptions about my family that are not true. Mainly from the radical unschooling "trend"---if you will. So using that word is becoming a term of divisiveness in some places....which is unfortunate.

 

I stopped posting on some unschooling groups mainly because I didn't like being attacked if it was known my kids weren't allowed to do/watch/read/listen to xyz or if I expected them to do/learn/watch/read xyz.

 

I know there are a load of people out there unschooling who feel the same---which I guess is why it's called "relaxed"---we're calm and relaxed about it all. :lol:

 

Anything to an extreme is not healthy.

Edited October 29, 2011 by Walking-Iris

[PenKase]

We have always unschooled. I started out very much in the unschooling camp. But I guess I am more relaxed than unschooling because I do expect certain things to get done everyday and I do pick out most of our materials. I do believe that "unschooling" means different things to different people. For me it was just finding a lot of interesting materials, books, projects and not stressing about what I call "school requirements"---grades, tests, reading levels etc. Although we have played with those concepts---my son loves a big happy face 100% to be at the top of his math pages. :tongue_smilie:

 

Saying my son is in 3rd grade is so weird for me---it's more a way to communicate to others his age and useful for when people ask him or we do co-op and sports. But in reality the "grade level" of what we do fluctuates. He's probably behind or accelerated in different areas, maybe even in different topics among the subjects. But that's my definition of unschooling----I'm not grading him, giving him tests, or "holding him back" or anything that is a very bureaucratic ps way of thinking. We just try to learn everyday what is necessary and not an option (spelling, math, grammar etc--things I feel it would be way too risky to wait for a child to show interest in or learn on their own. What 8 year old just says "I'm ready to learn about prepositional phrases"?) and try to have fun with everything else, and not stress about the "shoulds"---that's my main gripe with ps and really structured homeschooling---the "shoulds".

 

Radical unschooling---unlimited tv or vid games, bedtime whenever, blah blah, never appealed to me. I absolutely cannot stand Sandra Dodd (sorry but there it is). I do try to live somewhat consensually with my kiddos. I respect their ideas about what to wear and what they want to play or how they want their room etc. (As long as it does get clean lol ). But they do have chores and a bedtime etc. I'm not going to force them to read a book just because it's in the "curriculum" either---they can read what they like. As long as they are reading. I pick our read alouds and that usually leads to them expanding their reading choices. And I do censor some things---if I don't feel that a book is very good (morally, educationally, whatever---my parental alarms are going off) then it's not checked out or in the house.

 

I do use some curriculum. I do have a structured time for math and lang. arts. and a few other things. I did pick SOTW as our history and I have picked out the science and a few other topics. I want my kids to be exposed to certain things, but where my unschooling heart comes into play is with following my children's lead. If SOTW isn't eliciting some interest (and it hasn't so much) then I shelve it and we do some Am. History (which my son likes better). If we don't do SOTW1 this year or at SWB suggested timeframe will the world end? Nope. I don't follow the homeschooling books or programs I use to the T...they're more like interesting resources I can dip into and use what I like and what I think would work or be fun. I don't like books that are scripted and tell me what to say and how to do it and when, and I don't stress about so-called grade levels.

 

And I know that I would be jumped on in unschooling boards for having those limits. But if you read Patrick Farenga, David Albert or Mary Griffith, you'll find that a lot of unschoolers do have limits---usually tailor made to their unique family situation. I've actually been disturbed with the radical unschooling trend in past years.

 

I love this. Very well said.

 

I spent the better part of August meticulously planning and then inputting those plans into a massive Excel spreadsheet. It looked so pretty!!! We were all set to go for the year. But I felt stressed and overwhelmed; my plans seemed too restrictive and contrived. Enter September. We had both sets of grandparents set to visit that month. Last year, I tried homeschooling around their visits, but the energy shift was such that it almost made it impossible. I decided to start our homeschooling year in October and spend September doing interest-led things, utilizing grandparent expertise, and seriously thinking about which path to take regarding our homeschooling. We had a great month, learning tons, none of it coming from curriculum already carefully hand picked and read to go. There is a saying that circles around here, "can't see the forest for the trees." This is how I felt. There were so many little parts, details to be taken care of, that I just couldn't make sense of where any of it was going.

 

October came (and almost gone) and we are still in full interest-led swing. I do set limits (no tv other than educational videos) and my girls have daily chores/responsibilities. We do literature and math daily. They get to have a say into what they want to learn but have to discuss and clear it with me. All other "subjects" are getting folded into content. Each morning they write in their homeschool journals and set their learning pace for the day. They also get time to work on their projects a few times a week (dh and I both found it imperative to include project-based learning into our homeschooling). From our daily literature readings we spring off to learn about varied topics that may have risen from the readings. I keep my own homeschool journal, writing about our days as they happen and jotting down things they have questions and wonderings about to follow up on (or not). DH gets an earful every day about the day's happenings. This may all sound all pink and rosy, but I assure you that our days are not always flawlessly optimistic and without incident. We've hit some snags, naturally, BUT we are all much, much, more relaxed and I am truly enjoying learning along with my girls. Previously, I was too caught up on doing the next thing and box checking to be involved with what they were learning. Being more relaxed has prompted me to follow some of my own interests to share with them.

 

I don't know where we'll end up, but we're enjoying the ride.

[Walking-Iris]

I love this. Very well said.

 

I spent the better part of August meticulously planning and then inputting those plans into a massive Excel spreadsheet. It looked so pretty!!! We were all set to go for the year. But I felt stressed and overwhelmed; my plans seemed too restrictive and contrived. Enter September. We had both sets of grandparents set to visit that month. Last year, I tried homeschooling around their visits, but the energy shift was such that it almost made it impossible. I decided to start our homeschooling year in October and spend September doing interest-led things, utilizing grandparent expertise, and seriously thinking about which path to take regarding our homeschooling. We had a great month, learning tons, none of it coming from curriculum already carefully hand picked and read to go. There is a saying that circles around here, "can't see the forest for the trees." This is how I felt. There were so many little parts, details to be taken care of, that I just couldn't make sense of where any of it was going.

 

October came (and almost gone) and we are still in full interest-led swing. I do set limits (no tv other than educational videos) and my girls have daily chores/responsibilities. We do literature and math daily. They get to have a say into what they want to learn but have to discuss and clear it with me. All other "subjects" are getting folded into content. Each morning they write in their homeschool journals and set their learning pace for the day. They also get time to work on their projects a few times a week (dh and I both found it imperative to include project-based learning into our homeschooling). From our daily literature readings we spring off to learn about varied topics that may have risen from the readings. I keep my own homeschool journal, writing about our days as they happen and jotting down things they have questions and wonderings about to follow up on (or not). DH gets an earful every day about the day's happenings. This may all sound all pink and rosy, but I assure you that our days are not always flawlessly optimistic and without incident. We've hit some snags, naturally, BUT we are all much, much, more relaxed and I am truly enjoying learning along with my girls. Previously, I was too caught up on doing the next thing and box checking to be involved with what they were learning. Being more relaxed has prompted me to follow some of my own interests to share with them.

 

I don't know where we'll end up, but we're enjoying the ride.

 

:iagree: This is exactly the image of unschooling I have in mind. Where I think the radical trend fails in in specific situations. If my son is having an attitude (which he does at times) about doing math that morning, then too bad, it has to get done. Because I feel it necessary for my kids to know how to read, and write, and "do" math. So just because he may want to spend his morning watching Spongebob doesn't mean that's okay with me. I don't believe kids are inherently lazy, and I do believe that kids naturally want to learn. But they need motivation, guidance and discipline. They need a roadmap to a destination and that's are job as parents. But they also need the time to go off the path occasionally to explore something that catches their interest.

 

But if he has an interesting thing going on, I'll let him be. For example, he read James and the Giant Peach in one sitting and started at a time that we usually do some morning math, grammar and a few other things. But he said he really wanted to finish his book---so I let him and it took him most of the morning and early afternoon with two breaks to finish the book. I wasn't going to say "bookmark it and let's do xyz because that is what I have in a planner."