Guest Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) After homeschooling for three years on my own I enrolled my kids in k12 this year with our local virtual school. There are some things I like about K12, but I am not liking their 4th grade math very much right now. I have had issues with their math curriculum not teaching a subject very well, and I had to teach it the way I learned on the side which kind of defeats using K12 at all. My ds recently learned how to do the order of operations....do parenthases work first, mult/div from left to right, add/subtract from left to right. This he understood and picked up on right away. Well...the most recent lesson is on the distributive property. The lesson did not teach him how to do this very well AT ALL. So, I was trying to work it and explain it better to him on my own...again. His workbook is asking him problems like: Find missing number 2 x (4+5) = 2 x 4 + 2 x ? 8 x (9-3) = ? - 24 30-24 = ? x (5 - 4) Use the Distributive property to multiply 56 x 8 = (50-6) x 8 =50x8 + 6 x 8 = ? + ? = ? I understand all of this, but my ds is really struggling. He has always done so good in math before, and thought he was smart. But he is really starting to hate math and feel he is no good in the subject. He has recently be begging me to quit K12, and go back to using Teaching Textbooks (otherwise we would use MUS). So, I chatted with Teaching Textbooks this morning. I asked them when they introduced these topics. They said they didnt even start introducing the order of operations or the distributive property until TT 7:eek:!!!!!! Am I right in thinking this is a really advanced topic for a fourth grader:confused:? It might be ok if they did a better job explaining it, but they really didn't offer much explanation. The didn't explain long mult/div very well either and I had to do that completely on my own or he never would have got it. I am about to withraw from K12 and go back to my old homeschool materials that I am missing so much right now! Can you tell I am frustrated:banghead:? Edited October 13, 2011 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnrmom Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Ds did this at the end if 4th grade public school, and MM has it as review in the beginning of 5A. Khan Academy has a video about order of operations that was helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 You might try this free sample page from MM that explains multiplying in parts (without actually calling it the distributive property) There's this prealgebra video on the distributive property, but it's probably too advanced (still, it's just a video, can't hurt). I haven't looked to see whether khan has anything on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I think the distributive property can be taught once multiplication is known. The problems you're showing are ones that would generally be done by order of operations. They're using them for the distributive property to show that the distributive property works... "Look... 3(6+2) = 18 + 6 and we get the same answer we would have by order of operations!" You have to be comfortable with the distributive property for algebra: 3(x+2) can't be simplified without it. It's just tough for kids (or any student) to see why they're having you use the distributive property when you can simplify by order of ops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I guess our problem is just the way they explained it :(. K12's new math is really bad at explaining things. It is an online lesson, and then they are suppose to do the workbook page. He understands the order of operations....he just didn't understand the way they explained how to do the distributive property. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) You might try this free sample page from MM that explains multiplying in parts (without actually calling it the distributive property) That page is easy, and my ds understands that. The lesson he was on was just asking more complicated problems than that. I think that another problem is that they went from not doing this at all....to immediately solving HUGE equations. That math mammoth page breaks it down into the first little step in the distributive property. That math mammoth page also give several examples.....his k12 lesson only gave two, and they were HUGE problems to begin with. They didn't break it down into a simpler problem like math mammoth did. Edited October 13, 2011 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Then, I'd probably try to link up the simple example that he understands with the more complicated stuff that he's struggling with, probably on the white board. There's a sample page on the distributive property in the MM prealgebra worksheet pages also (the worksheets are about practice rather than instruction, but maybe the examples would help? At least it's more practice) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justLisa Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 This is probably not helping at all, but I absolutely cannot stand K12 math. I remember looking at the 1st grade just thinking it was strange and all over the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 This is probably not helping at all, but I absolutely cannot stand K12 math. I remember looking at the 1st grade just thinking it was strange and all over the place. Actually it does help. I have never disliked a curriculum so much. The worst thing is that they teach these new concepts in ONE lesson, and then move on immediately to something else the next lesson with almost no review at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veggiegal Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Have you looked at Hands On Equations? At this age, most kids do better with the concrete representations. (To be honest, I'm not sure that ever quite goes away for some people. When I tutor math, some students just don't get algebra until we break out the alge-tiles.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheres Toto Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I've always been very good at math including algebra and I don't understand this problem: 2x (9-3) = ? - 24 2x (9-3) would distribute to 2x9 - 2x3 which would equal 18-6 = 12. It would be easier done by just doing the parenthesis first so its 2 x 6 = 12 but I really don't understand where does ? - 24 come into it? I mean, we can solve for ? but the other problems seem much more straight forward with one side being the other side distributed. The ?-24 throws balancing the equation into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I've always been very good at math including algebra and I don't understand this problem: 2x (9-3) = ? - 24 2x (9-3) would distribute to 2x9 - 2x3 which would equal 18-6 = 12. It would be easier done by just doing the parenthesis first so its 2 x 6 = 12 but I really don't understand where does ? - 24 come into it? I mean, we can solve for ? but the other problems seem much more straight forward with one side being the other side distributed. The ?-24 throws balancing the equation into it. Whoops that was a typo sorry. The 2 is suppose to be an 8... 8 x (9-3) = ? - 24 I understand all this too. It is just K12 does a really crappy job teaching it. I just got off the phone with our "education specialist", and she told me I could drop K12 math. She uses K12 also with her kids, and says she hates K12 math too. She actually uses Teaching Textbooks. Glad to know I am not the only one who has a problem with K12 math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Yeah, if your kid understands the way TT teaches and does well with it I would 100% continue to use it if you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelissaMinNC Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 My dd is doing these things in MM4A. She really got order of operations when I introduced this mnemonic: Please Excuse My Dear Aunt Sally - which stands for Parentheses, Exponents, Multiplication/Division, Addition/Subtraction. You have to make sure they understand that the Mult doesn't actually have to come before division - they are interchangeable in the order, as are addition/subtraction. (We haven't started expnonents yet, and I told dd just to not worry about that until we get to it.) This sounds really confusing writing it out, but it was actually easy and for some reason it really helped her get it. HTH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelissaMinNC Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Have you looked at Hands On Equations? At this age, most kids do better with the concrete representations. (To be honest, I'm not sure that ever quite goes away for some people. When I tutor math, some students just don't get algebra until we break out the alge-tiles.) Ooh, what are alge-tiles? I think I may be one of these people who needs a visual. I wish I could get my brain to work more mathematically. Ugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 My dd is doing these things in MM4A. She really got order of operations when I introduced this mnemonic: Please Excuse My Dear Aunt Sally - which stands for Parentheses, Exponents, Multiplication/Division, Addition/Subtraction. You have to make sure they understand that the Mult doesn't actually have to come before division - they are interchangeable in the order, as are addition/subtraction. (We haven't started expnonents yet, and I told dd just to not worry about that until we get to it.) This sounds really confusing writing it out, but it was actually easy and for some reason it really helped her get it. HTH. Thanks. He actually understands the order of operations 100%. It is just the distributive property he was having problems with. I think his problem with it is 100% the way K12 tried to teach it. They make easy things so complicated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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