Baseball moms - can you explain youth baseball leagues to me?

[LNC]

My 10yo son has played in a rec league, with his dad as the head coach. He pitches lots of no hitters, and is considered outstanding in his rec league. He was recruited to play in a Nations baseball tournament team. He played in a couple fall tournements and LOVED it so much more than his rec league. They are a good team and he will play for them in the spring.

 

1. My first questions are about tournement leagues and more competitive leagues. How does all this work??? Can you tell me the path a "good" pitcher should pursue? Is Nations baseball a good league to be involved with - the price is right, we don't have to pay anything. I'm not even sure why?? Are there better leagues to be involved in? Do you have to be recruited?

 

2. There is also a homeschool team that plays local schools - public, charters, and private school teams. That team starts in middle school so he could try out next year. Would that be worthwhile in addition to the tournemant team or on its own?

 

I'm very confused. Any advice would be great! Thanks!

Edited September 20, 2011 by LNC

[nowimscrappin]

Which son are you talking about - the 5th grader or 7th grader?

 

My son is 11 and has played Fall and Spring competitive ball since he was 8 - so he's on his 7th season right now. He's also a pitcher and has been from the beginning.

 

If he wants to play in high school, these competitive teams are the way to go (I don't know if you plan to homeschool all the way, or if your state allows homeschoolers to play on school teams, etc). The biggest thing you'll find is that the level of play is much higher than Rec leagues and he will most likely improve more playing with the better kids.

 

But, competitive leagues run the gamet. Some are great. Some are not. Travel baseball in my area is starting to become "watered down" and basically anyone can start a team and put kids on it; wheras it used to be more competitive its not so much now.

 

I'm a bit intrigued about the "not paying". Travel / competitive baseball is typically not free. Do they have some major sponsorship or something or are you expected to fundraise? Look for hidden costs - are there out of town tournaments that you have to pay for lodging for your player or your family? Are there extra lessons he should get, etc.

 

For my son, my biggest investment after the team costs he plays on are for private lessons. He started pitching when he was 7 and as soon as he did, I took him to get lessons to make sure he had the right mechanics. It is so easy for arm injuries to occur from bad mechanics. I have seen a lot of pitchers pitch complete games, lots of strike outs, but their mechanics are so horrible that by the time they are 15 or 16, they are going to need elbow surgery. I think that is the most important thing you can do for your pitcher is find a reputable pitching coach to work with him.

 

Secondly is that it should and often will be up to you to monitor his pitching. My son pitches on two teams in the spring because he plays travel AND Little League. We've been lucky the past couple of years in that he's had the same coach for both, and that coach isn't stupid to overuse his arm- he watches it carefully. But, unscrupulous coaches who only care about winning and not about the future of your child may overpitch him and ruin his arm from overuse. There were several articles released recently about youth pitching injuries and they mostly come from overuse and bad mechanics.

 

Little League rules for a 12 year old are 85 pitches and 4 days rest. I think for a 14 year old they are 95 pitches and 4 days rest (and there are levels of rest in between with fewer days for fewer pitches). Most studies also recommend not pitching over 100 innings in a calendar year. They also recommend a 2-3 month period of time with NO pitching (off season). If your team doesn't have a lot of depth of pitching, watch out for a weekend of pitching 150+ pitches by your son. My son has had ONE weekend of 120 pitches, and it was the END of a Spring season where he had been pitching consistently 65 pitches every 3-4 days and had built himself up to be able to pitch 40 on Sat and 85 on Sun to finish a game. He also didn't pitch for a week after that. As the mom, its up to you to protect his arm because you can't count on the coach too.

 

If you live in a warm weather area that plays baseball truely year round, take heed of the note above about taking some months off. We live in VA and have Nov-Mar with no games, but he does do some lessons and workouts - but not the stress of the games that really can cause the injuries.

 

I'm happy to answer any questions you have, but travel / competitive programs can be so different, even in the same area much less in different parts of the country.

[unsinkable]

My son has played in a rec league, with his dad as the head coach. He pitches lots of no hitters, and is considered outstanding in his rec league. He was recruited to play in a Nations baseball tournamant team. He played in a couple fall tournemants and LOVED it so much more than his rec league. They are a good team and he will play for them in the spring.

 

1. My first questions are about tournemant leagues and more competetive leagues. How does all this work??? Can you tell me the path a "good" pitcher should pursue? Is Nations baseball a good league to be involved with - the price is right, we don't have to pay anything. I'm not even sure why?? Are there better leagues to be involved in? Do you have to be recruited?

 

2. There is also a homeschool team that plays local schools - public, charters, and private school teams. That team starts in middle school so he could try out next year. Would that be worthwhile in addition to the tournemant team or on its own?

 

I'm very confused. Any advice would be great! Thanks!

 

Your pitcher is the 5th grader?

 

You need to protect his arm. I don't know about the Nations league but you need to go their website and find out the pitching rules for a child his age. Your coach should be able to tell you off the top of his what they are. If he can't, I'd worry about his ability to protect your son's arm from damage from overuse.

[unsinkable]

What Nancy said. :D

[LNC]

We watch pitch counts closely. Nations baseball has rules monitoring it too. We haven't paid for private coaching and probably won't be able to, but several men have come to watch him pitch and talk to my husband/rec league coach about him... I'm not sure what is said exactly, but the gist is that he's outstanding. I know all mothers believe that about their little sports guys, but this is what we're hearing from people in the know.

 

The Nations team he was asked to be on is a step up from the "select", they call it "elite". They don't travel overnight. It seems like the farthest they go is 2 hours away.

 

Do you know about Nations baseball versus the other leagues? I'm not sure why it is free, I know they have a sponser. Do you think the homeschool team is a useful add on?

Edited September 18, 2011 by LNC

[nowimscrappin]

The one thing I would watch with ADDING ON the homeschool team is that its two teams using his arm. The pitching rules for Nations baseball are just for that - and they don't govern the homeschool team. So, Nations could pitch him on Sunday a TON and homeschool team on Monday want to pitch him a ton - because he hasn't pitched for them. That's where you come in to help manage his pitching. If you can do it within your time constraints and you take care to watch his pitching across BOTH teams, there's nothing wrong with more playing - in baseball, you definitely get better by doing, so the more doing, the better - more hitting opportunities, more fielding opportunities, more situational opportunities - but watch the pitching opportunities to protect his arm.

[LNC]

The one thing I would watch with ADDING ON the homeschool team is that its two teams using his arm. The pitching rules for Nations baseball are just for that - and they don't govern the homeschool team. So, Nations could pitch him on Sunday a TON and homeschool team on Monday want to pitch him a ton - because he hasn't pitched for them. That's where you come in to help manage his pitching. If you can do it within your time constraints and you take care to watch his pitching across BOTH teams, there's nothing wrong with more playing - in baseball, you definitely get better by doing, so the more doing, the better - more hitting opportunities, more fielding opportunities, more situational opportunities - but watch the pitching opportunities to protect his arm.

 

 

Yes - I see what you are saying. Have you heard of Nations? Are they a good program to commit to long term?

[nowimscrappin]

I haven't heard of Nations. But, a program, or even an individual team, is only going to be as good as the coach is. I don't know if they hire professional coaches - some teams around here do - or just have dads coach - which most do around here. This is definitely a case of the program only being as good as the people.

 

If he wants to play baseball in college - and again, I don't know if you're talking about the 5th grader or the middle schooler, a lot of programs have "Showcase" events - I think these are mostly for high school players, where players come together at tournaments and college recruiters go and watch them play. If this is something of interest to you, its something you can look into and see if this is something that Nations does.

 

For us right now, with my 11 year old, I hope that he's still interested in playing in high school. Baseball is his one sport and he's pretty good at it but that's as far as I look right now. I just take to make sure he's happy and learning and growing. with any program, its usually that you just have to committ for a season and if you don't like it, don't continue. The program will also probably expose you to other teams and programs around and if this is really something he wants to pursue (competitive teams), then you'll learn a lot about what's around, what programs are good, etc, just by watching the other teams at tournaments. We play for a local team in our neighborhood, and we're fortunate we have a great coach, a great team, and great parents who aren't always just out to make sure their kids gets to play all the time. But, I wouldn't hesitate to look at area teams if I thought this experience was no longer what he needed.

[CLBMom]

My son is on a 10u elite travel team. We play alot of Nations tournaments as well. We really haven't had any problems so far. We do have to pay Nations costs $300-$400 a tournament per team. We have also traveled out of state so that cost $$. I agree about keeping track of his pitches. Nations only counts game pitches not practice, warmup and all that. The only issues we have found with travel ball is within the teams (the parents) Everyone thinks there kid is the best, which causes drama. That being said I feel it is the best place for a child that shows real talent. My son is also playing a fall rec league for fun and he is finding it frustrating at times. So thats my 2 cents

[Jryanbass]

I'm not a "baseball mom" like that yet, as DS2 plays t-ball, BUT, my husband runs a baseball training facility that has 10 travel ball (tournament) teams, and 7 private instructors. His BIGGEST complaint is as other posters said, young pitchers wearing out there joints, its awesome to see you are so proactive about it. As your boys get older tournament teams are a good way for colleges to see them, if they plan on playing in college. My dh regularly hosts showcases that 4 or more college coaches come to and look at the players. But tournament leagues are rough, and competitive. Plus I am sure you are aware of the price. If you have any super specific questions feel free to ask me.

[LNC]

bumping for weekday readers/posters. Thanks everyone!

[Candid]

Let me give you some links to read on pitch counts:

http://www.asmi.org/asmiweb/usabaseball.htm

http://www.littleleague.org/Assets/old_assets/media/Pitch_Count_Publication_2008.pdf

http://www.childrensmemorial.org/depts/sportsmedicine/prevention_guidelines_pitchers.aspx

 

Besides the actual pitch count one of you must become committed to knowing what his pitching form looks like. Injuries happen when pitchers start to come out of their form (which happesn when they are tired). That means they could still be under pitch count guidelines and need to come out. This would probably be his dad since he is his coach.

 

And ethically I'd talk with both coaches in advance and decide in advance how things are going to work or your going to frustrate yourselves and them. And ask them how they want to handle your call to pull your son. We have had issues with this. You need to be prepared for a huge scene, but we're not just talking your son's baseball career possibilities (which realistically are slim) we are talking living his whole life in pain. You should talk with him in advance about when to come out and he needs to be the first line on this. If he thinks he needs to come out he can tell his coach that and should get taken out ASAP.

[Jan in SC]

My ds is playing his second year of travel ball. We don't play Nations, though and I've never heard of it.

 

I agree with pp that you need to watch pitch counts. That probably won't be as hard as you think in travel ball, as almost everyone on the team should be able to pitch. In fact, I've never seen a team that has a designated pitcher position. Everyone just rotates from their normal position.

 

My advice will apply more if this is your fifth grader, as my ds just turned 10. He plays up a year, but doesn't play at the elite level. He is on a different team than last year, so we had to pay for uniforms and insurance this year. Last year he played on a fully sponsored team. Everything, from his uniform, to tournament fees, to bats were covered. He had former professional players as coaches. It still turned into "daddy ball."

 

This year he has to work a lot harder, but his coach is amazing. You might need to prepare your son that he probably won't be the best guy on the team anymore, but he'll probably have a lot more fun.

 

I'm probably giving more negative than you want, but it's easier to adapt to a positive experience. If your son struggles, other parents will complain, loudly! They want to win. If your son pitches great, but struggles in the field, or at bat, he will sit a lot, or be replaced. If you have a dad that coaches, and your child has the unfortunate luck to play the same position as his child, be prepared to have your child sit on the bench, even if there are multiple errors at that position.

 

Tournaments are really fun if your child enjoys the pressure. Most coaches expect a player to come in and perform without a learning curve. Be sure to find the rules and know them. They can really differ from rec league. Also, if your son plays with a 2&1/4" barrel, spring for the 2&5/8" composite, if allowed. It will make a huge difference!

[LNC]

My ds is playing his second year of travel ball. We don't play Nations, though and I've never heard of it.

 

It worries me that no one has ever heard of Nations Baseball...

http://www.nations-baseball.com/index.cfm?event=general.home

What kind of leagues are you all talking about?

[bettyandbob]

Your pitcher is the 5th grader?

 

You need to protect his arm.

 

 

I guy I know who played in the Little League World Series when he was a kid told me no one who has pitched in the Little League World Series has played professionally as a pitcher. Their arms are shot by 17 or 18.

 

I don't care about professional sports aspirations, I'd just hate for my kid to ruin his arm at a young age.

[unsinkable]

 

 

I guy I know who played in the Little League World Series when he was a kid told me no one who has pitched in the Little League World Series has played professionally as a pitcher. Their arms are shot by 17 or 18.

 

I don't care about professional sports aspirations, I'd just hate for my kid to ruin his arm at a young age.

 

DH's opinion: Another thing that can cause damage is when young boys throw "junk." Boys should be throwing only fastballs until their mid-teens.