onaclairadeluna Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 So then, for the record, you would or would not encourage the co-op writing class for this dc? I'm just so undecided. I think it would be fine, but I want to do it myself. That's the long and short of it. I don't like the idea of going an hour earlier, and I don't like the idea of losing control or losing a semester if it's not right. OK, all I can say is what would I do with DS if I were in your shoes since I don't know your DD. Pros Someone else is dealing with my child. (ie I get a break) If the class is good my child might learn more than I can teach. Positive relationship with non mom adult. Cons. More time away from home. Child might freak out and it could be more work for me. Might not be good teaching. Hard to tell from this list. For me, in my area it is a REALLY easy decision because finding a good teacher is like finding a needle in a haystack. DD has a phenomenal dance teacher and our school has a great art teacher and that's what we have within an hour of our house. It is possible that another gem of a teacher would come out of the woodwork but I always assume the worse. We sorely lack qualified teacher in this area. I imagine there are a handful in the public school but we are not overflowing with talent. My con list has been worrying me less and less. DS is getting so much better at "not getting upset" as he calls it. I really do crave non-mom adults, so he can practice this new found skill. If you think she is a good teacher, I'd go for it. Worse case you can take DD out and be the hero. Best case it's a good fit and DD gets inspired. Have you talked to the teacher? Does she seem good? I think that would be the tipping point for me. Here's another thought. Has your DD met the teacher? What does she think? It does sound like you are hesitant. Can you go for a couple classes and then decide? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 But I think this visual problem is secondary to the first issue: how do I figure out what I'm trying to say, and then present that clearly to other people? Often, I don't arrive at that until after I've vomitted words on the page. I use writing as my method of discovery, and then edit later. If I edit, then maybe I can make that heaping mess into something worthwhile. Yes yes!!!! That's what I did for a long time, and I got a lot better with practice. Now in my old age, not writing "real" stuff, I've slid back into the abyss, and I do the vomitting and rearranging schtick (e.g., I think I edit my posts here more than just about anyone - thank goodness for computers!!). But practice practice practice. Tons of practice can make a huge difference, and change the brain. I'm talking about us grownups, with a significant self-motivation to communicate something successfully. We want to do it. It's a lot harder to get a kid to be so motivated - they have to want to say something, and writing assignments may seem "fake" (I could care less, why should I say something when not only do I not want to turn my brain on to make the enormous effort, I emphatically do not want to say anything about this stupid topic; ugh). (don't mind me, I'm in blabbing mode, at the hospital all day, and I forgot my phone charger :glare:; but hey, there's wireless :D) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onaclairadeluna Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Yes yes!!!! That's what I did for a long time, and I got a lot better with practice. Now in my old age, not writing "real" stuff, I've slid back into the abyss, and I do the vomitting and rearranging schtick (e.g., I think I edit my posts here more than just about anyone - thank goodness for computers!!). But practice practice practice. Tons of practice can make a huge difference, and change the brain. I totally understand this also. Not just from personal experience, but I also see it with DS. On this note do you have any great resources for helping a child learn how to edit their writing? I have been just teaching him by modeling, but I'd like a great book. Maybe I'll check out Elements of Style and see if that is what I need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 On this note do you have any great resources for helping a child learn how to edit their writing? I have been just teaching him by modeling, but I'd like a great book. Maybe I'll check out Elements of Style and see if that is what I need. THIS is what I have no idea how I'm going to do. Dd is very sensitive to my recommendations to edit. For myself, I had a fantastic mentor while I was working, who had been an editor of some sort prior to becoming a lawyer. However, that mentoring involved a lot of red pen. I think I may have to focus on only one type of issue at a time with editing. It's another one of those things - what I can do myself is different from what I can teach. I got a Daily Paragraph Editing book, but I believe that's all mechanics, as opposed to rearranging ;). I taught dd how to use carats, LOL; that's as far as I've gotten. She may slowly come around. Hopefully, if I can get her outlining well, there will be a lot less rearranging of paragraphs but we'll still be left with sentence structure and word choice (she's a little informal :glare:). So, I'd love to hear recommendations for this as well. I may have her look at the example "answers" in the WWS TM after she's done writing, or possibly before, if she doesn't try to copy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onaclairadeluna Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I got a Daily Paragraph Editing book, but I believe that's all mechanics, as opposed to rearranging ;).. Yes, exactly. We are looking for the same thing. So far what I do is I make a verbal recommendation. I am getting a bit of resistance but only a bit. Still I'd like a book with daily editing that was more about style than mechanics. I think what I'd like to see is him practicing this on his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Pip Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Yes, exactly. We are looking for the same thing. So far what I do is I make a verbal recommendation. I am getting a bit of resistance but only a bit. Still I'd like a book with daily editing that was more about style than mechanics. I think what I'd like to see is him practicing this on his own. What about Killgallon? Sentence Composing or Story Grammar. I'm wondering if you could take apart the sentence "chunks" and then try putting them in different orders? Or, you might be able to try that with the Daily Paragraph Editing book (not its intended purpose, I know - but some of the sentences are rather clunky in there anyway.) Another thought - what if you took older, forgotten writings to edit? I'm tempted to try this with my kids. There is less of an emotional connection to older writing than current writing. If sensitivity is an issue, you could even point out how they have really improved in their writing since the older piece was written. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onaclairadeluna Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 What about Killgallon? Sentence Composing or Story Grammar. Great minds think alike. I ordered story grammar a week ago. It's not so much editing but I though that the practice would help with style. Oooh now I am impatient all over again.:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted September 6, 2011 Author Share Posted September 6, 2011 Wee Pip--I understand what you're saying about getting the words out and then having to go back to outline and make it more linear. I've had to do this with things for dh where it literally wasn't comprehensible before. I wonder though if there's a way around that inefficiency. I've seen some people mention moving cards around on a magnetic surface (doesn't Erin of AG recommend this?), and Nan has that spider method. Dd doesn't *like* when I help her pre-organize her thoughts, but if definitely helps the writing come out better the first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted September 6, 2011 Author Share Posted September 6, 2011 Onaclaira, we decided we're going to take the plunge. I'm mailing the check today, so there's no turning back. Yes, I talked with her quite a bit. I know she's not in the very bad category, or I wouldn't even be considering it. How amazing she is, well I guess we'll know when we see what she extracts from dd. The one thing I did though was talk through this with dd and get her on the same page with me that she has to do the co-op class homework that night and be ready to do content writing assignments from me the other days. And I've really been thinking through these two threads and clarifying what we want to accomplish. I *think* I have a workable plan and know how to get there, so I'm feeling pretty good about giving the writing class a try. If one of the sides (hers or mine) is great and the other weak, we're still ok. If both turn out to be great, we're even better. Seems like a win-win. I figured it would at least be worth a try. She's doing essays this semester and research papers/MLA 2nd semester. So even if I don't get done all I dream up, we'll still have gotten done a LOT. Oh, and for anyone who has been following my complaining about the toddler thing, I finally sat down with a plan book and got that all sorted out, the things pulled for the week, everything assigned to a day, etc. My SIL gave me a few choice ideas (having a box for each day of reserved toys, etc.), so I'm just feeling more on top of it. Now I just need to finish organizing dd's stuff (daily checklist, hang board, etc.) now that we have the final components. Whew! So things are looking up, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted September 6, 2011 Author Share Posted September 6, 2011 Onaclaira--100 Days of Writing is in that vein of improving writing by flexibility. It's sort of witty how it approaches it too, having them intentionally create errors which you then trade with your partner to correct, etc. I think there's something to that development of flexibility, the ability to reimagine your writing again and again until it sounds the way you'd like it. Sort of same vein, there's a task in Wordsmith Craftsman where they want the student to make multiple iterations of different types of paragraphs. I was thinking how interesting it would be to start with one topic and reimagine it from multiple perspectives, in multiple writing styles. On the outlining and order though, I still go back to this thought of visual rearranging. Haven't tried it with her yet. Lori mentioned "storyboarding" using post-it notes, and of course the post-it notes would be easy to rearrange and order for the writing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onaclairadeluna Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Onaclaira--100 Days of Writing is in that vein of improving writing by flexibility. Cool it's in my library.:D Good luck with the class! It should be fine. Maybe it will even be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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