island-mama Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I ordered Climbing to Good English 2 for this year to do some solid review before we get to Rod and Staff English 3 next year. Something I noticed right off is that it is heavy on having 2nd graders learn dictionary respellings. I never learned this skill in school and am wondering how many of you have had your children do this. Is it necessary or even useful at this age?? It seems it may be confusing, especially for a weak speller (we are working on strengthening our spelling this year), and I am considering just marking through all these sections in the CGE book and skipping over them. Any experience or thoughts on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Way2blessed Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I have my fourth grader using the 2nd grade CGE book this year specifically so that he can do the dictionary spelling. I was taught this way in school, so to me it makes sense. It seems to be helping him a great deal in learning to spell correctly (or maybe the improvement is from A&P which we are also using). I don't thnk it would hurt, however, to cross out those sections if they didn't seem right for your child. They really have nothing to do with grammar. Dianne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 "Respellings"? :confused: Are you talking about the diactrical markings? If so, I don't think they're important at this age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paige Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 We are doing the 2nd grade of that too and I'm not sure if I want them to do it or not either. I don't see the point. I don't understand how it is supposed to be beneficial. I was leaning towards skipping them or at least a lot of it but we haven't gotten that far in the book yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 One of my current obsessions is wanting to pick a core dictionary, and to be able to read the pronunciations in it. I've been at this for almost 3/4 of a year. I think I'm closing in on this. It has been made all the harder because I have wanted to combine it with a spelling program that teaches rules. I have WRTR, Riggs and CGE all spread out on the floor right now. I think I'm going to use Merriam-Webster for my dictionary; the Riggs cards but either WRTR or SWR for the core spelling; and some minor adapting of CGE to line up with the Merriam-Webster. I think reading a dictionary is important, but I also think being able to handwrite letters and compositions is important, and to know the times tables up to 20x20 as well as the other math memorization mentioned on The Core, and all sorts of other "archaic" things. If a parent obsesses over all these things, often they won't be able to rush through the grammar level lessons fast enough to do traditional PS high school, though...so...it's a judgement call :-0 My boys are grown and on their own, so I can afford to obsess over starting my grammar level education over and doing it "right". The Amish materials are particularly interesting to me right now, as they attempt to teach all the topics required for daily living in just 8 years, without reliance on technology. CGE was written for children who are not also being required to finish rigorous science and history and literature curriculums. It is geared to the goals of their communities. It matters what your big goals are, to determine whether learning respellings is worth doing for YOUR family. I wouldn't attempt these lessons with a 2nd grader without the flash cards. And I wouldn't just stick to a schedule of a page a day and just expect him to be able to do the page. I would tackle this project similar to tackling math and move ahead in the workbook only as fast as he was mastering the material. And I would probably purchase the Pathway Readers as I'm told they are meant be used along with CGE and reinforce the respelling exercises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
island-mama Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 Thanks for your responses. I think that reading the pronunciation spellings in the dictionary could be useful at some point, but I really think that it may be overload for my daughter at this age (and for me, with a new baby expected in October). It seems like something that a middle or high schooler could pick up much more easily and quickly. I also appreciate the comment that the CGE book was designed for Amish schools which have a different focus than I do. Because you're right...we will be heavily into history and science this year, as well as French and a myriad of other things. I just always like to get opinions before I completely scrap a portion of curriculum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paige Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 What I don't get, is why children who read need to be taught to read dictionary respellings. It's phonetic, right? Isn't it intuitive and obvious to people who have been taught phonics? I almost didn't buy CtGE because of this but we liked it for 1st so much and I couldn't find anything else I liked better, but I still don't get it. I do like they are being taught to use a dictionary, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 What I don't get, is why children who read need to be taught to read dictionary respellings. It's phonetic, right? Isn't it intuitive and obvious to people who have been taught phonics? I almost didn't buy CtGE because of this but we liked it for 1st so much and I couldn't find anything else I liked better, but I still don't get it. I do like they are being taught to use a dictionary, however. Those are diacritical markings, not "respellings." No, they are not intuitive and obvious to people who have been taught phonics. Spelling and phonics are not the same thing. You check the dictionary for correct pronunciations of words you're unsure of as well as for correct spelling, etymologies, and syllibication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
island-mama Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 CGE calls them "respellings", which is why we do, I guess! :) And I do think that it could be useful for her to know this...someday. I find that I have always easily intuited how a word should be pronounced (spelling and phonics are very natural to me) and have never had to use this function of the dictionary. I don't know that it will be the same with my daughter, but I suppose I could cross that bridge when I come to it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 My background is a bit different than most here. Due to poverty and domestic abuse situations I spent a LOT of time isolated and there was even a purposeful effort to prevent me from obtaining an education, to keep me dependent. But I alway had some access to some books. I only got to learn about what I had access to. Sometimes I had more freedom and access to oppurtunities, but there were times when the isolation was pretty extreme. I read so much more than I had the opportunity to hear. I knew I didn't know how to pronounce the words. I tried to understand the dictionary, but had not been trained to use it, and hadn't even been trained to read a table of contents or explanatory notes. I muddled along the best I could, but I could have learned so much more if I had been taught this simple skill. Due to my background, I have different priorities for my education. I don't have little ones now, but if I'm ever a key player in the education of grandchildren, they ABSOLUTELY will be taught this skill! But at the same time...I TOTALLY understand why some parents would choose to skip it. There is not time to teach them everything. Priorities have to be set, based on the big plan. I would start teaching respellings in grade 2, but am not sure I would try and cover all that is in book 2 during grade 2. I'd start with the easier and more obvious ones, use the flash cards, and compare them with the Riggs phonograms, and do a LOT of using the dictionary every day. I would look up science words and ANY words the child didn't know how to pronounce to constantly reinforce the value of this skill. I'd act pretty dumb if necessary as if I cannot pronounce anything but the most basic of words without the assistance of my beloved dictionary :-) I would have the child copy respellings even if they only understood some of the phonograms, so at least the ones they have learned/mastered are being reinforced, and the others are being introduced and will become familiar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Don't dictionaries usually have a key to their diacritical markings in the front? I just use those if I'm not sure. I checked the ones I have here, both elementary dictionary and a collegiate dictionary - both have a whole page with the pronunciation key. And of course, these days, dictionary.com will say the word out loud for you. :tongue_smilie: Though I do think children should still be able to read the pronunciation in the dictionary (and not rely on the internet). I don't know that it needs to be taught really early. Maybe by middle school make sure you open up a dictionary and show them where to find the pronunciation key and how to use it? I have a 2nd grader now, and I don't think it's all that important that he be able to figure out the pronunciation key in the dictionary yet. In a few years, yes, but right now, I'd rather him focus on how to spell, learning any phonics he hasn't learned yet, learning cursive writing, etc. I think he'll pick up the diacritical marks pretty easily, once he knows how to look in the front for the key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 The pronunciation keys in some dictionaries are easier to use than others. The problem for me has been that I don't say the key words listed in the pronunciation key, in standard English. I'm having to isolate each phonogram and learn exactly how to pronounce it and then figure out the symbol my default dictionary assigns to it. And in the past, I didn't have a clue what that upside down "e" was all about. I didn't pronounce schwa and had never even heard of schwa and even the easier pronunciation keys didn't explain schwa. So I looked at multiple dictionaries and they all used different symbols. And I just gave up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 CGE calls them "respellings", which is why we do, I guess! :) Well, there you go. :D And I do think that it could be useful for her to know this...someday. I find that I have always easily intuited how a word should be pronounced (spelling and phonics are very natural to me) and have never had to use this function of the dictionary. I don't know that it will be the same with my daughter, but I suppose I could cross that bridge when I come to it... I don't think it's necessary for young dc to know them; I would expect it to be a skill learned around fifth or sixth grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 I just sat down for an intensive comparison of WRTR and Riggs phonographs. If I hadn't of just completed CGE2 I would have been quite confused. Not that this has anything to do with whether a 2nd grader should complete the CGE respelling exercises, but...I'm really glad to have access to this affordable workbook series for my self-education. And my friend and I are still fighting over CGE grade 3, because of the excellent, one of a kind, letter writing section. I'm looking forward to saving up enough money to buy the rest of the series. Using my new letter writing skills I sent a letter to Miller School Books asking for an order form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
island-mama Posted August 18, 2011 Author Share Posted August 18, 2011 I'll have to take a look at the CGE 3. I wasn't thinking I would purchase it since I have Rod & Staff for 3rd grade, but now I am intrigued... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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