Kumon /Sylvan?

[Haiku]

We are looking into a tutoring program for dd17, who failed math this past year. Does anyone have any experience with either Kumon or Sylvan? The local Kumon center told me that dd would get two classes per week for $100/month, which seems reasonable to me. Sylan isn't open yet, so I couldn't find out their fee. I wish these places would put the info on their websites. I don't need the hard sell about how fantastic their program is. We need a tutor, and I want to know the cost. :glare:

 

Tara

[Harriet Vane]

I have a friend who used Sylvan for their son in the public school, and another friend who has used Kumon at different stages for her son. Both spoke highly of the program. I know that's not much help, but I think it's worth investigation.

 

I do know they are both pretty pricey.

[Osmosis Mom]

These places are franchises so prices vary. That said, Kumon's price sounds very reasonable.

[celticmom]

The Kumon price sounds about the same as our local Kumon center. I have not personally priced Sylvan but someone who had spoken with them asked me how much I paid for Kumon and said that the price that they had been quoted for Sylvan was much higher.

 

Kumon generally has 2 classes a week but they have work that is sent home to do every day. It is not an overwhelming amount if it is done on a daily basis but I would imagine that it would not be particularly fun to have to do 3 days work all on the same day if she does not keep up with it. I imagine that that would be especially true at the higher levels.(My dd is 6 and is on level B in math.)

 

Kumon is not necessarily a quick fix. They will test your dd and put her on a starting level that seems very easy to her. The idea is to let her form the habit of doing her Kumon work and build confidence before the work becomes more difficult. They also want to go back far enough to address any gaps in comprehension that are making math at the higher levels difficult for her. I don't know whether you view this as a pro or a con but they do not use calculators in Kumon. I regard it as a pro myself.

 

If you have any more questions I can try to answer them. My dd has been in Kumon for over 1.5 years now and I have read some about the whys of various aspects of their approach. I do not know as much about the high school levels as I do the ones that my dd has done and is doing.

[Haiku]

The Kumon price sounds about the same as our local Kumon center. I have not personally priced Sylvan but someone who had spoken with them asked me how much I paid for Kumon and said that the price that they had been quoted for Sylvan was much higher.

 

I did end up speaking to Sylvan and they quoted me $45/hr, minimum of 2 hours/wk. That makes them about 4 times the cost of Kumon, which made me wonder whether I misheard the Kumon lady who said $100 a month.

 

Kumon is not necessarily a quick fix. They will test your dd and put her on a starting level that seems very easy to her. The idea is to let her form the habit of doing her Kumon work and build confidence before the work becomes more difficult. They also want to go back far enough to address any gaps in comprehension that are making math at the higher levels difficult for her. I don't know whether you view this as a pro or a con but they do not use calculators in Kumon. I regard it as a pro myself.

 

The no calculators is a pro. Dd was adopted at an older age and has always struggled with/been behind in math. She's been getting tutoring at school, but since she's now failed math I decided we needed something different to help her. I talked to them about all that and they said they would be able to work with her. She doesn't understand math, and because she has some cognitive issues and learning delays, I have not been able to effectively help her. In this instance I think she needs a professional.

 

Thanks for your responses!

 

Tara

[jujsky]

Although they say Kumon is for both advancement and remediation, it isn't great for remediation. I put both my kids (6 & 7) in it in January, mostly for DS who struggles in math. I decided to put DD in as well for enrichment because she's great at math. My kids are miserable. I'm trying to get out of the contract now. I don't know if your franchise has the same policy, but with ours we have to sign a year-long contract and if we want out before then, they penalize you by making you pay for 3 months. With 2 kids, I'm looking at losing out on $600 if they won't let me out of the contract.

 

First off, they sell you that the work will only take 20 minutes/day. Not so. It started out that way, but as the work got harder it took longer and longer. There are days my son is at his work for an hour and a half if you also include the time it takes for him to fix all the mistakes he makes. Oh, and that's AFTER the center director cut the 10 pages/day my son was supposed to do down to 5, and then down to 2 and 3 on alternating days. On an average day he's at it 45 minutes - an hour. My daughter is doing well as far as advancing goes, but as the work has gotten more difficult she's taking longer and longer to do it as well, and recently she had a couple of strong, tearful outbursts and told me she hates math. This is a girl who loves math and is good at it. I don't want her to develop a math-phobia because she's being pushed beyond her ability level, and I sort of feel she is. To the center's credit, they did back-pedal when I told them she was struggling, but she still says she hates Kumon now and doesn't want to go. I asked what her birthday wish is going to be this year and she told me today, "To not have to go to Kumon anymore." That's not exactly the love of learning I want to instill in my child.

 

My son (the struggling math student) is not getting the help he needs. It's not as though someone sits with you the majority of the time you're there and helps you with your work. You go in, hand in your homework, collect your worksheet, sit at the table and do it, turn it in, make the needed corrections, grab your homework for the next session, and leave. The center director and staff sit with the kids and help them or run math drills with them once in awhile, but it's definitely not every time we go. If I'm lucky they get a tiny bit of extra attention (I'm talking like 5 minutes) once/week, but more often it's every couple of weeks. The center is mostly staffed by high school students who circulate when they're not busy talking to each other. My son was in there for almost an hour and a half the other day for a 3-page assignment (you're supposed to do a 10-page assignment in 20 minutes according to Kumon, but as I said, DS's workload was cut back). Did anyone say, "Hey, I noticed you're still here. What's the problem?" No. He was told by the high schoolers a couple of time to do his work. That was it. Oh, and at our center, parents aren't allowed in the classroom so I couldn't go in and intervene. And then after almost 90 minutes of work, they didn't even correct it because he had been there for so long. The structure is just an endless cycle of repetitive worksheets and very, very little one-on-one interaction with a tutor. It's also a year-round program so you have work 365 days/year -- Christmas, Thanksgiving, birthdays, family vacations -- you're working. Sure, we skip those days, but that only means double the work the next day.

 

The center was fully aware of my son's struggles in math and his special needs before we signed on with them. They said they can help him. They haven't. I could achieve the same results if I bought a bunch of Kumon workbooks, set the timer for 20 minutes each day, and had him do what he could in that time period.

 

Save your money. You're looking at $1,200 for worksheets. Take that and hire a tutor. Even if the tutor is only there for 30 minutes once/week, you're going to get more for your money.

[Dolphin]

We have been pleasantly surprised by Kumon. My ds9 was really behind, and had started to not like Math. The confidence he has gained has helped me at home with him. We pay $100 a month.

 

I didn't do Sylvan as my parents put me in it when I was 17 for help with math, and I hated it! I ended up with a private tutor (about the same price) and it was okay (which might be as good as it gets with a 17 year old struggling with Math)

 

Personally, for the price I would try Kumon. If that doesn't work, look at your local community college and see if you can find a tutor.

 

Best of luck. Oh, and you can still have a great life with barely scrapping by Math:lol: A tutor for 2 hours a week got me a c- in Advance Algebra (just enough to pass). Then I said goodbye to math and embraced becoming an English Lit. major!

[Dolphin]

Quote form jujsky:

First off, they sell you that the work will only take 20 minutes/day. Not so. It started out that way, but as the work got harder it took longer and longer. There are days my son is at his work for an hour and a half if you also include the time it takes for him to fix all the mistakes he makes. Oh, and that's AFTER the center director cut the 10 pages/day my son was supposed to do down to 5, and then down to 2 and 3 on alternating days. On an average day he's at it 45 minutes - an hour.

 

Me:

It should only be 20 min a day, and there should be less pages at it gets harder. They are not doing something right there.

 

 

jujsky:

My son (the struggling math student) is not getting the help he needs. It's not as though someone sits with you the majority of the time you're there and helps you with your work. You go in, hand in your homework, collect your worksheet, sit at the table and do it, turn it in, make the needed corrections, grab your homework for the next session, and leave. The center director and staff sit with the kids and help them or run math drills with them once in awhile, but it's definitely not every time we go. If I'm lucky they get a tiny bit of extra attention (I'm talking like 5 minutes) once/week, but more often it's every couple of weeks. The center is mostly staffed by high school students who circulate when they're not busy talking to each other.

 

Me:

This is just not right. I saw that you were in a contract too. I would talk to the main teacher of your center and if it is not resolved either the head office or another center and see how they can help. We are month to month, no contract. We have college students and graduate students as assistant teachers. Our main teacher checks with me on a regular basis as we are adjusting my sons pages as they are taking awhile.

 

I don't know what I did wrong with that, but the quotes didn't show up correctly.

[Haiku]

Best of luck. Oh, and you can still have a great life with barely scrapping by Math:lol: A tutor for 2 hours a week got me a c- in Advance Algebra (just enough to pass). Then I said goodbye to math and embraced becoming an English Lit. major!

 

That is definitely true. Unfortunately, dd wants to be a doctor but failed math and science this year. :( And unfortunately, she is REALLY bad at math ... to the point where she is unable to help my dd9 with her 4th grade math ... :( We have been working on this issue since dd came to live with us some years ago, and it's just not getting better. :(

 

Thanks for all the responses!

 

Tara

[jujsky]

Quote form jujsky:

First off, they sell you that the work will only take 20 minutes/day. Not so. It started out that way, but as the work got harder it took longer and longer. There are days my son is at his work for an hour and a half if you also include the time it takes for him to fix all the mistakes he makes. Oh, and that's AFTER the center director cut the 10 pages/day my son was supposed to do down to 5, and then down to 2 and 3 on alternating days. On an average day he's at it 45 minutes - an hour.

 

Me:

It should only be 20 min a day, and there should be less pages at it gets harder. They are not doing something right there.

 

 

jujsky:

My son (the struggling math student) is not getting the help he needs. It's not as though someone sits with you the majority of the time you're there and helps you with your work. You go in, hand in your homework, collect your worksheet, sit at the table and do it, turn it in, make the needed corrections, grab your homework for the next session, and leave. The center director and staff sit with the kids and help them or run math drills with them once in awhile, but it's definitely not every time we go. If I'm lucky they get a tiny bit of extra attention (I'm talking like 5 minutes) once/week, but more often it's every couple of weeks. The center is mostly staffed by high school students who circulate when they're not busy talking to each other.

 

Me:

This is just not right. I saw that you were in a contract too. I would talk to the main teacher of your center and if it is not resolved either the head office or another center and see how they can help. We are month to month, no contract. We have college students and graduate students as assistant teachers. Our main teacher checks with me on a regular basis as we are adjusting my sons pages as they are taking awhile.

 

I don't know what I did wrong with that, but the quotes didn't show up correctly.

 

We have a meeting with the director Monday to try to get out of the contract. I spoke with her several months back and things did get better for awhile, but she's had a recent influx of new students and has totally dropped the ball with both my kids again, but with DS especially. At this point I just want out of the contract because it's NOT working for my son. The reason it took almost 90 minutes for him to do his work Monday? It was too noisy and distracting in there -- that's what he told me. Even though parents are not allowed in the classroom, parents break that rule all the time, open the door and have loud, distracting conversations in the doorway with the owner (that's when the high school students who work there are not having loud, distracting conversations in front of the kids).

 

OP, if you check Kumon out, look carefully at the contract. Kumon is a franchise so different centers have different rules. Where the poster above has a month-to-month contract (how I wish we had that!) ours is a yearly contract. I would NOT sign a yearly contract with all the money you'll be pouring into it because it's hard to get out of it if you're 3 months in and find it's not your thing.