For the expereinced music teachers: teaching singing and recorder

[M in Canada]

I have been teaching solfa and recorder for a while now. With solfa I began to see some signs of progress, but I find that my younger student (age 6) often can't sing a scale. She can with some coaxing get her "ear" in gear and sing a scale properly and both her and her sister (7 yo) can now sing through some Gregorian chant notation sight singing exercises in solfa. It is easier to just sing the chant notation as the do is movable and we don't have to battle sharps and flats.

 

With recorder the going is also very slow. They can now play a few notes mostly without squealing. My older child has some inkling of timing. SO she can play quarter notes and eighth notes somewhat at a constant tempo. But I am struggling to find ways to teach this. I do it by demonstrating and explaining. I ask them to clap. I clap for them and ask them to read out the ta and ti ti notes....

 

What I need is some help in how to be a music teacher. Can you please tell me why it takes to long to grasp these things? I have been doing solfa for about 3 years. I have been making them clap rhythms for almost two years. They have heard me sing solfa at least weekly all their lives.

 

Is there a wonderful book out there that can give me some of these insights so I can be more patient and be a better teacher? I am looking for something thoughtful that will inspire me. Sort of like the Charlotte Mason materials that I have been reading.

[dalynnrmc]

I think that, for this age, BJU's music program is excellent.

 

For grasping the concepts of steady beat, and especially of tonal competency, every student is different. Some will catch right on, some will take longer. Personally, we've only just begun this type of work with my 9yo 4th grader. (I've had a hard time finding materials that I like that are geared to his age. But, for a younger student, the BJU materials are EXCELLENT.)

 

Steady beat just takes practice. Dancing around to music (music they LIKE) and clapping to the beat, or stomp-clap-stomp-clap patterns, are the best way I can think of to teach this. It's one of those things that just takes practice until one day it "clicks" and you'll be ready to move on.

 

In the meantime, work on singing with the solfege. If there is background music, the children will sing with it whether or not they can internalize a steady beat.

 

Playing an instrument, even a simple one like a recorder, and being expected to READ the musical notation, is quite an undertaking (IMHO) for a 6yo. I would play familiar songs, so that the child already knows how they should sound and try to imitate that. Still put the proper notation in front of them, but use familiar songs. Make sense?

 

Anyway. That's my nsho. ;)

[M in Canada]

 

 

Anyway. That's my nsho. ;)

 

Thank you. Do you have a music background? I was thinking maybe I was expecting visible results when I should just do what you said: make sure it is enjoyable.

[dalynnrmc]

Yes, I was a music major in college. Never graduated, but I went for 4 1/2 years. (I have too much music for an associate's degree, but not enough basics. LOL I'm missing a lab science, a history, two governments, and a PE. :shock: )

 

But yes, I should've said that. LOL Sorry!

[M in Canada]

Okay so since you are a qualified person, can you suggest a book that might help me grow some patience?

 

Just as I was writing this I remembered that Suzuki had some books. Have you read those?

 

Is there anything else that I can immerse my brain in and help me? I have read books like that in other subject areas that have really helped me be more patient.

[Storm Bay]

The best books I know are geared for teaching piano, but since I also teach my kids recorder I want to second the suggestions to count beat and rhythm with the whole body. I've had kids walk the beat and clap the rhythm, but 7 might be a bit young, depending on your child's motor development.

 

It does take time to learn this, and some students take longer. My piano teacher was telling me to count for years, to be honest, because I was always in a rush back then. I have my kids do the ta's and ti's as well for recorder because I think it's well suited to using your tongue for each note in recorder. The clapping is good.

 

One other exercise I have my students do is to name each note before playing. If you're using a soprano recorder and starting to learn with G A B first, then they would only be saying Gs, As & Bs as they see them.

 

They're young, so give them time, too.

[Rhondabee]

6 and 7 is WAY Young to expect much in the way of an actual scale in singing. (And, I think, way young for recorder work.)

 

 

Kodaly will start you very simply, singing just sol and mi for a LONG time. Then, you add in la. Then, do. I think that's as far as I ever took my 1st and 2nd graders. You'll be surprised how many children's songs will use just those four notes!

 

Look for "The Kodaly Method" by Lois Choksy. MY ISBN is 0-13-516873-2, and is a 2nd edition. (But, I got in 1990, so....)

 

It has chapters on each grade level, a chapter on lesson planning, and an index of 180+ songs to use in your lessons. I highly recommend it.

 

For instruments, look for rhythm instruments, and mallet instruments (great accompaniment for your Kodaly). The Orff book I have is:

 

"Discovering Orff" by Jane Frazee. ISBN# 0-930448-99-5

 

The first part of this book is very heavy on "theory". But, the second part breaks down activities by grade, and would probably be more helpful to you.

 

To learn how to read music without learning piano!, a book appropriate for very young students is:

 

"Ready-to-Use Music Reading Activities Kit" by Loretta Mitchell.

 

The subtitle is "A complete sequential program for use with mallet and keyboard instruments" You can use these activities for sight-singing as well.

 

Another fun, more "general music" type book full of seasonal activities for various grade levels is:

 

"The Music Teacher's Almanac", also by Loretta Mitchell.

 

My favorite "fun time" resource, which includes lots of dances that can be done individually (kids do *not* like to touch each other - LOL!) as well as traditional children's songs is:

 

"Song and Dance Activities for Elementary Children" by Harriet R. Reeves.

 

Hope that helps!

Rhonda

[Storm Bay]

6 and 7 is WAY Young to expect much in the way of an actual scale in singing. (And, I think, way young for recorder work.)

 

 

Rhonda

 

Thanks for the references. I will say, though, that some 7 yo's do well with recorder--my 10 yo did with a sopranino recorder. OTH, I chose not to have ds start at 7 as he gets way too silly.

[Rhondabee]

My point-of-reference is obviously public school.

 

But, the mallet instruments require the same hand-position as is needed for proper recorder playing. But, there is no need to change the finger-position (or worry about proper breath control). So, it is an excellent way to train the muscles.

 

And, later, this same hand position, slightly opened, is the one most desired for piano.

 

If you really like recorder, you may like the K-8 Music magazine. Their "Recorder Karate" is excellent - and they have *wonderful* back-ground tracks for many, many recorder pieces.

 

http://www.musick8.com/html/recordermusic.tpl?cart=1211651261139416&find=a1&searchcategory=recordermusic

[Storm Bay]

My point-of-reference is obviously public school.

 

But, the mallet instruments require the same hand-position as is needed for proper recorder playing. But, there is no need to change the finger-position (or worry about proper breath control). So, it is an excellent way to train the muscles.

 

And, later, this same hand position, slightly opened, is the one most desired for piano.

 

If you really like recorder, you may like the K-8 Music magazine. Their "Recorder Karate" is excellent - and they have *wonderful* back-ground tracks for many, many recorder pieces.

 

http://www.musick8.com/html/recordermusic.tpl?cart=1211651261139416&find=a1&searchcategory=recordermusic

 

 

I forgot you did public school. Thanks for the magazine reference.

[CLHCO]

I glanced only at a few titles so I hope I'm not either repeating or offending.

 

I've been trying to decide how to answer this post. I think something is missing from your program but I may be totally off base.

 

Do you do music as a "subject", or do you do music as enjoyment? I have a degree in music, have taught a homeschool music program as well as Kindermusik for 8 years so I do have some experience with teaching young kids music and I fear I've gotten a bit opinionated.

 

I like Kodaly and I've taught it. Orff is fun. Both are best in a classroom when being utilized with real children interaction, songs, and games. Both are dull and pointless when isolated in a home, in my opinion.

 

Here is just my observation and others may have completely different experience. That's okay, I'm just giving one perspective.

 

I don't like most homeschool music programs. I have reviewed a few of them and tried taking my older kids through K12's and it was downright painful. I once thought about writing my own but I've changed my opinion so drastically on all this that it would look amazingly different if I ever do.

 

Music is not like math. It's not a subject you study for mastery because it's a tool, it's the spice of life. Honestly, I wouldn't "teach" any of it except maybe the recorder.

 

Both kids are old enough for recorder. I've taught it successfully to 5 year olds but only the left hand. They're even old enough for more formal lessons but if you prefer an introductory instrument right now, like the recorder, and they're having trouble with the fingerings, consider getting the precorder from the Suzuki company (not the same as the violin method.) It's made for littler fingers and easier to keep in tune, no squawking.

 

I'd personally drop the rest for now and sing, dance, play musical games, sometimes adding a bit of recorder, usually by ear at first, or making simple orff arrangements to songs they've learned to like. This can be any song, even ones from movies they like, songs from church, etc. Do the Charlotte Mason way of listening to a lot of classical music and be certain to add in some fun, like Strauss or John Philip Sousa. Go to a coffee shop that has jazz night jams, attend a concert in the park, etc.

 

Not all kids will take to instruments and reading at the same rate. My son takes to anything with music like a fish to water but his older sisters struggled with piano when they were his age. They are doing really well now on their string instruments and sing harmony lovely so it doesn't mean they're doomed to poor musical ability if they can't read music well at that age. Just find ways they can be successful at their current ability.

 

Your child should possibly be able to sing a scale, though I admit I never expected my kids to sing one, just to sing songs. When I taught at a Montessori school I almost always had over 90% of my kids over 4 years old singing in tune well by the end of the year. This leads me to believe that the motivation and desire is lacking somewhere, but again, I may be wrong. Perhaps they sing and hum all day long and just don't want to sing a scale.

 

Music just doesn't stop in my house. I have a teenager I must constantly silence or we'd never hear ourselves think. My 7 year old son, who wasn't old enough when I taught to get any Kodaly and had only a couple weeks on a precorder, now has perfect pitch and barks at them if they dare sing something in a different key than the one he's either heard on CD or on paper. He's just been drenched with music since before he was born. My 3 year old has sung (mostly) in tune since she was one, though she doesn't have complete control over all of her range yet and probably couldn't do a good scale. I don't use a music program. If my kids need to sight sing, they can teach this to themselves in about 6 months because the ear is already developed well and they have desire and motivation. I learned it in college and can utilize it when necessary still.

 

I hope this doesn't offend anyone. I don't like seeing music so compartmentalized in our modern society.

[M in Canada]

Thankyou ever so much for the help and the extensive list of books.

 

I will check a few of them out and try and inspire myself into patience in this area as well. Oh my. SO much patience is needed everywhere.

 

So if it is normal for scale singing to be difficult at 6 or 7 then how come there are boys choirs that sing beautifully? The boys must be young to sing so high. They only have from age 6 to 10 to sing before their voice starts going funny.

[M in Canada]

CherylCo! Thank you for your post. I see what you are saying about music not being a subject per say. One does have to be taught an instrument and, then later, theory. But the rest should be done out of joy.

 

The reason I do sight singing is that I do it for our Chant choir. I found it was also very good for my brain to do it and the ability goes away if I stop practicing. I use exercises that were copied out of a Ward book. So I might as well get the kids to sing along. I don't expect them to do it well. Surprisingly they are catching on faster than I thought they would. They often can sing the next note in a sequence. It was just mystifying to me why my 6 yo would sometimes not be able to sing a scale at all. But I will just continue having them sing along and let them develop on their own.

 

I did look at Orff and KOdaly books a long time ago and now that you mention it I was discouraged by not knowing how to implement those things in a home setting.

 

 

CherylCO: If you think of a book that can help me understand what you have come to understand about music please let me know.

[Rhondabee]

Well, singing a scale is a much more exacting activity than singing a melody. It is very hard for the average child to sing a half-step, and some even have trouble with ascending whole steps.

 

When you first add the "la" in Kodaly, which is a whole step away from "sol", it is always approached from "mi" - which is a 4th; then it will fall down to "sol"; it is easier to do a whole step down than a whole step up. Think: "It's Raining, It's Pouring" or "A Tisket, A Tasket". Later, once "la" is firmly established, you can approach it from "sol". Think: "Lucy Locket lost her pocket".

 

All told, I guess it's not really so much the chronological age *if* there is training. But, I would bet the training for anyone would be easier and more productive if the teacher followed Kodaly's suggested steps. There was MUCH research put into his method.

 

And, when you blend so many voices, and you get to choose the creme de la creme, then any one person's off-ness becomes less accentuated.

 

At any rate, have fun! My two boys have always had the attitude, "Just because *You* like music, Mom, doesn't mean *I* do." So, I'm really quite jealous - I would still LOVE to be teaching music! - maybe my 2yo will be more teachable!

 

=)

Rhonda

[Valerie in MI]

 

So if it is normal for scale singing to be difficult at 6 or 7 then how come there are boys choirs that sing beautifully? The boys must be young to sing so high. They only have from age 6 to 10 to sing before their voice starts going funny.

 

I do think it is difficult for many kids to sing in tune at 6-7. A lot of professional children's choirs don't start the kids until 2nd or 3rd grade. Also, I want to correct you on the age of the kids in boychoirs. My son is in one of the best boychoirs in the country and would be quite insulted to be told his voice is going funny. He's just 13 and is very much a soprano. Many are sopranos all the way through their 13th year.

[M in Canada]

OKay, sorry Valerie. Your son's voice is not funny. :) I love, LOVE, boys choirs. I love the sound of boy sopranos and I love seeing them sing even more. There is something heart breakingly gorgeous about it.

 

I hope my sons will want to sing.

[Storm Bay]

OKay, sorry Valerie. Your son's voice is not funny. :) I love, LOVE, boys choirs. I love the sound of boy sopranos and I love seeing them sing even more. There is something heart breakingly gorgeous about it.

 

I hope my sons will want to sing.

 

I think they sound lovely, too. But aren't you glad that the phase of adult male sopranos is gone? When some of the great opera stars were castratos? Why would they do it? To escape poverty, as back in those days boys were kicked out of the choirs when their voices changed.

[Lynn in WI]

So if it is normal for scale singing to be difficult at 6 or 7 then how come there are boys choirs that sing beautifully? The boys must be young to sing so high. They only have from age 6 to 10 to sing before their voice starts going funny.

 

My boys sing in a boy choir with ages ranging from 8 to 15. Even when boys' voices change they can still sing soprano--often very beautifully because they've been so well-trained from a young age.

 

Our program admits boys at age eight whether they've sung before or not. They're taught solfege, proper breathing, vowel placement, rhythm, rehearsal skills, etc. through solfege games, simple canons and enthusiastic teaching. I agree with the other poster who said to keep it fun. There's no way my boys would ever have agreed to be in a boy choir if they weren't enjoying the music. They are not naturally musical, but have been taught well and have worked hard in the program because they love it. That is a result of the conductors keeping it fun, having high expectations and choosing great music.

 

I would relax and not focus so much on what you think they should be able to do by a certain age. Listen to great music, sing with them, let them dance--all the things that children want to do anyway. And when they show interest in doing more, take that opportunity to teach them something new.

 

Enjoy it!