MCT Mavens: A Question About The Island Level

[Spy Car]

So after chomping at the bit to start MCT I am about to order the Island Level figuring even if it is still early, we can move in at a relaxed pace.

 

Now I see there is a new revised (Second Edition) of Grammar Island. I have missed the latest MCT "news", can anyone tell me what the improvements of this latest edition might be?

 

All-things-being-equal I was looking forward to just using one book (the Teachers book) rather than having separate Teacher and Student books (as is now recommended and is the way the "basic" homeschool package is now comprised).

 

This is something I want to do one-on-one, so the "need" for separate books is an innovation I'm not sure is to my liking.

 

Any insights on the First Edition vs the Second Edition? Are the changes so worthwhile that I should live with two books, or should I seek-out a used set from one of you all?

 

My son has a birthday coming up so I would like to get this ordered and included with his presents (being the fun Dad that I am :tongue_smilie:).

 

Thoughts?

 

Bill

[Satori]

My son has a birthday coming up so I would like to get this ordered and included with his presents (being the fun Dad that I am :tongue_smilie:).

Bill

 

Aw, that's cute! You are a fun dad! :)

 

I googled and found this WTM on the differences. Since I just ordered the newer edition, I haven't really paid attention to the differences, but in the book it mentions having more (and full-page) graphics, clarifying a few things, and more things in the TE. I guess the link I pointed to was the exact thing I read in the book, so that's a good place to start.

 

As for just using the teacher's manual, I think that's totally doable. My daughter prefers being the "teacher" anyway. She asks me the little questions and then we discuss them. You can always write out the sentence work on a whiteboard or other sheet of paper.

 

Did you check out my recent MCT review?

[Spy Car]

Aw, that's cute! You are a fun dad! :)

 

I googled and found this WTM on the differences. Since I just ordered the newer edition, I haven't really paid attention to the differences, but in the book it mentions having more (and full-page) graphics, clarifying a few things, and more things in the TE. I guess the link I pointed to was the exact thing I read in the book, so that's a good place to start.

 

As for just using the teacher's manual, I think that's totally doable. My daughter prefers being the "teacher" anyway. She asks me the little questions and then we discuss them. You can always write out the sentence work on a whiteboard or other sheet of paper.

 

Did you check out my recent MCT review?

 

I have read your recent review so many times it must have "virtual shelf damage" :tongue_smilie:

 

I will go read your link and be back.

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

OK, Angela that thread has me thinking the over-all changes might be positive enough to go with the new edition. So we can assume "dissenters" will arrive any second now to muddy the waters of my mind :tongue_smilie:

 

Bill (who must act!)

[Dana]

I used the originals for Island level and have bought the new editions of Town level. When they say you need student and teacher's manual, they're on target, IMO.

 

If they say you can get by with just the TM, there will be notes in the margin to the teacher and some things in the back of the book as well. With Sentence Island, there were a few margin notes I covered with Post-its.

 

For Grammar Town, the TM has answers to the problems in the text in a way that you couldn't just cover the answers. In that case, you'd need to retype the page to give to your student. Definitely working better for us to have the student book instead of trying to just use the TM.

[Dmmetler]

I have the first edition (bought it used) and haven't had a chance to compare them, but honestly, I don't think you can go wrong with MCT if you have a child who enjoys language and words and how they work together. I can't say that I would ever have thought that Grammar would be a snuggle and read subject, but Grammar Island was exactly that.

[Spy Car]

I used the originals for Island level and have bought the new editions of Town level. When they say you need student and teacher's manual, they're on target, IMO.

 

If they say you can get by with just the TM, there will be notes in the margin to the teacher and some things in the back of the book as well. With Sentence Island, there were a few margin notes I covered with Post-its.

 

For Grammar Town, the TM has answers to the problems in the text in a way that you couldn't just cover the answers. In that case, you'd need to retype the page to give to your student. Definitely working better for us to have the student book instead of trying to just use the TM.

 

Yes, I believe them if they tell me if I need one book or two. For Grammar Island I had liked the idea that the Teacher's Book was all that was needed (in the First Edition) as I want to do this in a "cuddle time" sort of fashion. So I need to wrap my head around the new requirement for separate books.

 

If that's the way to go, I will adjust.

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

I have the first edition (bought it used) and haven't had a chance to compare them, but honestly, I don't think you can go wrong with MCT if you have a child who enjoys language and words and how they work together. I can't say that I would ever have thought that Grammar would be a snuggle and read subject, but Grammar Island was exactly that.

 

See, that is the aspect I don't want to lose.

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

I just called Dr Tom at Royal Fireworks and he explained that there were too many notes now in the Teacher's text, but that a parent should now just read those in advance and use the Student Text for "snuggle-time", so nothing lost.

 

I mention this in case I raised any concerns for others who plan on using MCT.

 

Bill

[HappyGrace]

I used Town with older dd (loved it), the original version, and it was easy to use just the TM by covering the answers underneath with a piece of paper.

 

Now I want to buy Island for ds8, and I'm wondering the same thing as Spy.

 

So Dana, you are saying that in first edition Island, you can do just the teacher book?

 

Even after Spy's contact with Dr. Tom, I am still confused on the new Island-I don't care about ds seeing the notes right along with me but I don't want him to see the answers to the four-level sentence parsing; can those still be covered?

[Dmmetler]

I have the first edition, and the answers for the parsing aren't in Grammar Island in the text-they're at the back of the book. Practice Island you need both books for, or you need to rewrite the sentence somewhere. The Homeschool bundle I bought had the student book for practice island, and all the teacher books.

[nikkid]

I just read this last night after recently joining the MCT Forum on the Royal Fireworks Press site. Several posts by MCT himself explaining things...might be a great place to join if you have time to belong to another forum.:)

 

This is the FAQ3 directly from the site, written in Oct 2010, so I think this was before the new edition came out, but I still thought the answer applied to this discussion.

 

Quoting from the MCT Forum:

Should I buy the student books or the teacher manuals?

The fundamental starting points of the curriculum are the student books. These are for your child to read and reread, to explore and enjoy on his or her own.

At the first levels of the curriculum, some parents have found success using the teacher manuals only, as the full text of the student manual is also in the teacher manual, so parents determined to save money could do so (at some cost in pedagogic value) by giving their children the teacher manual. However many found that the downside was a loss in the number of activities available for their children as follow-up. Ideally, use both student and teacher manuals.

 

Michael Clay Thompson writes:

When I write, I look in my imagination through the student's eyes, and I always imagine the student turning the page, to see what is next. On every page I try to put a good element, a surprise, either visually or intellectually. I want each page to turn lights on and make the student want to know more.

 

Then I write the teacher/parent manual, and I try to put things on most pages that will help the teacher ask questions about the page, or provide additional knowledge about the content. In the teacher section I usually include discussions about the strategies and pedagogy, as well as exercises, activities, and answer keys. A key to this is that many of these teacher sidebars or bubbles, while propelling the teacher, would ruin the page for the student. In many cases there are Socratic questions, or comments to make, that are designed to instigate intellectual interactions between the student and the teacher/parent about the content. Such things are defeated if the student can simply read them, seeing behind the scenes, and making the conversation with the adult less necessary. I think it is a disadvantage to have only the student book or only the teacher book.

 

What's in the teacher's manuals?

The teacher manuals have the entire student book, plus extra worksheets at the back, which are sometimes labeled for reproduction. It also has the answers in the back for any student questions given in the front. In the teacher's manual there are also a few extra comments that are really teaching tips, and there's no harm in the student seeing these short comments on some of the pages.

 

I just purchased the 1st edition set of the Island level (Jan 2010 printing) and was so confused by the teacher notes...until I figured out the font didn't use apostrophes! So it read "You might want to tell the children the noun that s replaced is called the antecedent." I could NOT figure out what s replaced! or if it was cut off somehow! Until I realized it was "the noun that's replaced..." :D

 

Anyhow, what MCT talks about above is so true. If my daughter sees teacher notes and can tell the program is scripted, she sees right through me by thinking I don't know what I'm doing and stops listening to me. (We're working on that. :glare:) So I have to be uber prepared. I was planning to just use the TM for the cost, but maybe now I'll reconsider since I understand what he's saying.

 

I had to get 1st edition for now just because of the budget, but maybe I'll find a way to eek out the cash for at least the revised Grammar Island books and keep the rest of the set...or maybe GI are the only teacher/student manuals with 2nd editions? Does anyone know that? (i.e. Sentence Island, Building Language, Music of the Hemispheres, Practice Island) Maybe I missed something above that already said that??

[....]

I have the first edition (bought it used) and haven't had a chance to compare them, but honestly, I don't think you can go wrong with MCT if you have a child who enjoys language and words and how they work together. I can't say that I would ever have thought that Grammar would be a snuggle and read subject, but Grammar Island was exactly that.

 

:iagree: We just finished Grammar Island, Building Language and Music of the Hemispheres. We're working slowly thru Practice Island and Sentence Island. Don't forget to order the TM for Practice Island!!

[Dana]

I used Town with older dd (loved it), the original version, and it was easy to use just the TM by covering the answers underneath with a piece of paper.

 

Now I want to buy Island for ds8, and I'm wondering the same thing as Spy.

 

So Dana, you are saying that in first edition Island, you can do just the teacher book?

 

Even after Spy's contact with Dr. Tom, I am still confused on the new Island-I don't care about ds seeing the notes right along with me but I don't want him to see the answers to the four-level sentence parsing; can those still be covered?

 

For Island with the first edition, we had the TM only for all the books except for Practice Island. All the Practice books have the student book with the sentences and the TM with the answers and some additional comments. I did retype a couple of pages in Sentence Island and I covered a couple of notes, but the TM was enough.

 

We're using the 2nd edition of Grammar Town now. I could see doing some cuddling with the Student Edition, but I don't see how it'd work with using only the TM.

 

Have you checked at RFWP and looked at the samples of the new editions? I'd probably just get the basic edition of the new version if I were buying the Island level at this stage. Grammar Island moves quickly and it looks like there's still only one TM for Sentence Island.

[Ali in OR]

Cheapskate that I am, I recently went through the new Grammar Island text with my 8 yo and we used the TE only. And we did fine. A few thoughts on our experience:

 

1. This is a text that takes a few weeks, not a whole year. The TE alone is $35, the SE would add another $30. I don't think the pedagogical value of having both books is worth another $30. We found the little bubbles meant for the teacher to be pretty interesting discussion starters. Or we ignored them sometimes. Was not a problem *at all* to have them in the one book we shared on the sofa.

 

2. There are pages where the sentence analysis answers are already filled in. I just re-wrote the sentences on the white board for dd to do them. We like to use a different color pen for each of the 4 levels of analysis anyway.

 

3. This was not dd's very first grammar experience. Not only did she just finish FLL 2 before we started, she has been sitting on the sofa whenever her older sister and I did Grammar Town and Paragraph Town this past year. So she already understood the concept of 4 level analysis even if she hadn't done it personally. It felt like more of a grammar review for us than a brand new learning experience that had to be presented in a particular way.

 

So anyway, I think the TE only can work well in the home environment. If you're on a fixed homeschool budget, that extra $30 can be used better elsewhere.

Edited June 23, 2011 by Ali in OR