IS NEM better than Lial/Larson/Foerster?

[KatKat]

My son finished 6B and I was wondering if NEM is better than Larson or Foerster? I guess what I mean is , I understand one of the main difference between regular elementary math and Singapore PM series.. With Singapore PM , kids are taught hard word problems ,usually reserved for Algebra) by using bar diagrams....... But isn't Algebra still the same Algebra whether or not it is NEM or Larson/Foerster? What are the advantages of using NEM? Are NEM word problems harder than that of Larson's/Foerster? Can one say that a student who finished Algebra 1 and 2 by Lial or Larson , can't solve NEM 2 word problems? Thanks so much for comments to my questions.

[langfam]

I've done Singapore Math myself in school. I did really well until Primary 6. After that it was all downhill. I remember it was a big, huge leap from primary math to NEM (it was probably called something different then). I really struggled and went from an A+ for the PSLE (big scary exams) to an F in just a matter of months, after one semester of NEM. I have vivid memories of the shock my mom had. I wasn't as smart as she thought I was. She gave me a nice long lecture about working harder. I did, but still failed the next semester. I don't know if I was not developmentally ready for abstract math or that NEM needs a really good teacher. I had some pretty bad ones. For example, I had one teacher who used to speak in her broken English, "upstairs divided by the downstairs", i.e., numerator divided by the denominator. My mom finally got me a tutor to help me with math all the way through additional maths and I only ever got B's. It was such a difficult curriculum and I have such bad memories of it that I've stayed clear of it teaching my own children. I have relearned math using American texts. They are more accessible; explanations are so clear that bright students can teach themselves. I'm sure there are many here who can teach NEM, but I don't have the gumption......

[summer]

I have a friend whose child went in to NEM and it was too big of a jump. She went from a good student to a constant struggle so bad that the parents are about to give up on homeschooling. I have tried to convince them to try a different program, they might.

 

My DD finished 6B a couple months ago and after looking over NEM, I decided not to do it. Maybe it we did an in between book..but everyone says there is a big gap and frankly, the problems are like huge twisters...way too complicated for the subject matter. (and I am a math lover and have always done well at it, so it says a lot that I would say that). It seems to take the longest route possible to get to simple answers.

[KAR120C]

But NEM is quite difficult. I don't think it's too difficult, but it does take teaching. We did take a little break in between, dabbling in Kinetic Books Algebra and Gelfand. Kinetic Books was good but very straightforward (excellent for some situations, but not really like NEM at all, and wouldn't have helped DS place out of any of the NEM levels). Gelfand it very challenging, and would be a lot of fun, but not a lot of practice on any given topic. We still use that on the side.

 

The one book I have compared NEM to is Jacobs Algebra, and while the basics are fairly comparable (similar topics covered and all), NEM seems to go a lot farther in the hard stuff. I haven't gone point by point through the whole thing, but especially the last few problems of each set in NEM (the ones with asterisks...) are well beyond what Jacobs has in Set 4. (Generally speaking, Set 1 is review, Set 2 and 3 are practice and Set 4 is a challenge question or two.) Also NEM has a lot more challenging problems (the quantity, nevermind the difficulty) than Jacobs does. So I think I could say pretty confidently that after Jacobs Algebra a student would still find NEM word problems very difficult.

 

What I do like about the hard problems, though, is that DS is learning not to panic. He can figure out what bits of information he can put together and what leads to what, and eventually he can get to the answer. It's not about the problems ever getting easy, but about developing strategies to attack the ones that look impossible.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Erica, could you post one problematic problem from NEM 1? I'm curious. I wanted to go with NEM for next year. But my son balks at challenges.

[Mad Jenny Flint]

We decided against NEM for our kids because I had also heard it is a big jump and my son was doing well, but needed more concept review and maturity before moving on to Algebra. We took this year (7th grade) to review with Lial's Basic College Mathematics and it has been extremely rewarding. The explanations are very thorough and clear, and there is plenty of practice. I am hoping the Lial Introductory Algebra is the same way- it looks to be. If a program moves farther into difficult topics but you understand so little of the explanations, well, it just isn't an effective program. Both depth and clarity are needed.

[Nan in Mass]

I recently wrote a post about the things I like and don't like. Maybe you can find it. I haven't compared it to anything else. I'm not trying to do it with a very young student; I have a 17yo finishing NEM3 (he'll do CC pre-calc next year) and a 13yo finishing NEM1. The 13yo began NEM last year, but didn't have the concentration to continue, so we did some of Keys to Algebra and waited a year. My 13yo could do it by himself, if I let him, but he'd never show any of his work and that is an important part of switching from arithmetic to algebra. The 17yo needs to be carefully taught. I think the "big leap" some people are talking about is a combination of the switch from doing things in your head to showing your work (at least here in this country) and the fact that the first few chapters of NEM are a continuation and review of arithmetic. Since the student has been doing arithmetic for years, this is at a very high, hard level. Then the chapters after that are on algebra and are easier, although they sort of tell it to you all at once and expect you to remember it all. This is the point at which we stopped and did a few Keys to books to solidify all the little rules. Then we continued with NEM. After teaching you the algebra fairly quickly, they switch to geometry, where you practise applying the algebra.

HTH

-Nan

[KAR120C]

Erica, could you post one problematic problem from NEM 1? I'm curious. I wanted to go with NEM for next year. But my son balks at challenges.

"At a musical concert, class A tickets were sold at $4 each, class B tickets at $2 each, and souvenir programmes at $1 each. 3/4 of the audience who bought class A tickets and 2/3 of the audience who bought class B tickets also bought the programmes. The total amount of money collected from both types of tickets was $1400 and the amount of money collected from the programmes was $350. Find the total number of people who attended the concert."

 

This is from a "Challenger" section, which is theoretically optional... but some of my favorite problems are in there! They're not hard once you figure out how to set them up, but setting them up can be tricky. What I like about them is while you aren't drowning the kid in arithmetic, you are forcing him to approach a problem that doesn't jump right out at you, and translate whatever is available into a few useful equations that you can manipulate to arrive at the answer.

 

I can't say that DS is terribly enthusiastic approaching a challenge, but he does have a great sense of accomplishment when he's through!

[KatKat]

I think we'll continue with Key to Algebra that we have already started, then do Math counts 1 before I even consider NEM 1 . It looks very difficult. Thanks again for all the responses.