Anyone gone BACK to Saxon with success?

[MommyThrice]

Last year we quite Saxon. Ds struggled with Saxon Algebra I (he's not my mathy kid), then finally "got it" with Lial. He's working through Jacobs geometry this summer with success. I'm thinking about putting him back in Saxon Alg II next year. Am I crazy? He seems to have overcome some sort of hormonal/mental hurdle. I don't know that I can attribute it to Lial, but maybe.

 

He's going into 10th grade and wants to consider Saxon b/c it includes geometry, which he won't complete before next year. He's wanting to move ahead more quickly than Lial. I think part of his success is due to the side (practice) problems in Lials. I'm thinking about having him use Saxon Alg II in a similar way by having him check his answers as he works them. You certainly can't cheat in Alg II b/c the answers in the back don't show you how to work the problem and I require all work to be shown. Isn't this more like a college environment? I would place more weight on exam scores than daily homework. I just think this might help him learn, instead of constantly showing him what he doesn't know.

 

Any thoughts?

[Brindee]

My oldest and youngest just did NOT want to ever use Saxon again! My middle would've tried it again, probably, but we went a different direction with him (he did LoF Beginning & Advanced Algebra for his Algebra 1 credit, which fit his learning style perfectly!).

 

However, it sounds like your son is open to trying it again, so that may be the way to go. I'd have a 2nd choice ready in case he gets bogged down with Saxon again.

[ilovemy4kids]

I'd think about looking at the DVD's from Art Reed at www.homeschoolwithsaxon.com and also reading his book....then following his prescibed method...... The student does all of his daily problems and THE STUDENT checks them, not the parent. If he missed any, it's up to him if he wants to redo them or not. The parent checks the tests, if he got an 80 or above with NO partial credit....20 problems each problem is worth 5 points....if it has a and b if you miss one, you lose the whole 5 points.... 80 or above, great move on.... If not, take a look and see what the problem is and then go back and relearn those concepts..... This is working great for us.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

Blessings

Sandra

[MommyThrice]

I'd think about looking at the DVD's from Art Reed at www.homeschoolwithsaxon.com and also reading his book....then following his prescibed method...... The student does all of his daily problems and THE STUDENT checks them, not the parent. If he missed any, it's up to him if he wants to redo them or not. The parent checks the tests, if he got an 80 or above with NO partial credit....20 problems each problem is worth 5 points....if it has a and b if you miss one, you lose the whole 5 points.... 80 or above, great move on.... If not, take a look and see what the problem is and then go back and relearn those concepts..... This is working great for us.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

Blessings

Sandra

 

Never hear of this. Good ideas. So, when one of your children has to go back and "relearn," what do you require?

[MommyThrice]

My oldest and youngest just did NOT want to ever use Saxon again! My middle would've tried it again, probably, but we went a different direction with him (he did LoF Beginning & Advanced Algebra for his Algebra 1 credit, which fit his learning style perfectly!).

 

However, it sounds like your son is open to trying it again, so that may be the way to go. I'd have a 2nd choice ready in case he gets bogged down with Saxon again.

 

My son never complained about Saxon, he just hates math. It's a little hard working around THAT! :D

[ilovemy4kids]

Never hear of this. Good ideas. So, when one of your children has to go back and "relearn," what do you require?

 

 

Since they haven't see the correct answers to the test, they don't know them....after they have gone back and reviewed the sections in the book....I have them take the whole test again. (I do still use the first grade for my records) but this ensures that they know the concept for the record, I've only had to do it once. The Art Reed DVD's have made a huge difference...his book was so insightful and helpful.

Sandra

[Teachin'Mine]

We've only done Saxon, so part of your question I can't answer. But regarding how to address wrong answers on the practice and lesson problems, I never give my dd the right answer or show her how to do something. With Saxon, a lot of the learning comes from the practice problems and the only way to learn that is to redo the wrong problems until getting them right IMO. We correct the math together. She reads her answers while I look at the solutions manual. If the answer she gives is wrong, I ask her to do it again. If I see it's a matter of a wrong sign or some other simple thing, I advise her to "be careful" and often she can spot her mistake from what she already has down on paper. Other times it can take a couple of tries if it's a concept that wasn't yet taught. But I think that giving them the answer or showing them how it's done really won't help them understand the material better.

 

If you do decide to let him go into Saxon algebra II, I'd suggest letting him review Saxon algebra I this summer. :)

[gingersmom]

I would purchase the Saxon Teacher cd. They take you through the entire lessons and show you how to solve every problem.

[Jann in TX]

Since he did not work Saxon Algebra 1 he will be behind in the Geometry credit.

 

Saxon's Algebra 1 contains about 1/4--1/3 of the full Geometry credit.

 

Also the way problems are worked out in Saxon are quite DIFFERENT than the way taught with Lial... Saxon is UNIQUE!

 

If you do decide to go with Saxon make sure you keep a Saxon Algebra 1 text handy to go back to for those concepts not covered in Lial (Geometry) and also to learn Saxon's methods for word problems (VERY DIFFERENT-- I personally prefer Lial's chart method to Saxon's sub-script/super-script "read the questions and pull out the needed equations" method! but I understand both!

[vmsurbat]

We correct the math together. She reads her answers while I look at the solutions manual. If the answer she gives is wrong' date=' I ask her to do it again. If I see it's a matter of a wrong sign or some other simple thing, I advise her to "be careful" and often she can spot her mistake from what she already has down on paper. Other times it can take a couple of tries if it's a concept that wasn't yet taught. But I think that giving them the answer or showing them how it's done really won't help them understand the material better.

[/quote']

 

This is what we do as well. And we are ones who "went back" to Saxon, sort of. Let me explain....

 

With my oldest, Saxon was THE program and I used it with her beginning in 54 but didn't appreciate the lack of drill (these were the OLD texts, which didn't include the mental warmup or facts drill like the newer elementary texts--I've been homeschooling a long time....). In spite of my misgivings, we carried on because I couldn't find anything I liked better... She went all the way through Alg. 2, then went to private school in 11th and did very well...

 

Second daughter: I discovered R&S elementary math which I liked MUCH BETTER than Saxon elementary texts, so I switched her (and all her siblings) to R&S. One of my better decisions... but after R&S7th, I was in the search for a pre-Alg, Alg, sequence and went back to Saxon, even though I didn't want to. To be honest, I thought any individual lesson was well-done, but didn't care for the spiral approach. I wished Saxon would gather concepts into chapters (like R&S) and keep the long term review (like R&S), but I digress. Daughter 2 got through Adv. Math by the time she graduated, and tested into Calc at college.

 

Then came my Aspie Son. He hit a huge roadblock with the negative exponents in Saxon Pre-Alg, would get furious at what he considered nonsense, and couldn't continue forward because there were those horrible exponent problems every day. I went to a mastery program: Math Relief. He did great with this because once his mind clamps down on a fact (especially wrt numbers), it stays there. He went through Math Relief I and II, then on to Chalkdust Pre-Calc (which I didn't like as much as I hoped but at least I bought it used). He is currently a freshman, acing his college Calculus courses.

 

Since he did so well with that sequence, Son #2 went through Math Relief (a mastery program). He did well, but I then found out that he hadn't retained it. He is the reason I went back to Saxon. He gets "concepts" and "big ideas" easily but needs the long-term practice to really *cement* them.

 

It is important to realize that he *didn't* struggle with Alg. 1; he earned an A in the course, but when working through Jacob's Geometry the following year, he couldn't do the Alg. review questions thrown in there--he knew he had studied it and could tell me the big idea generally but could not actually work the problem.

 

In trying to figure out a way to help Son #2, I had the light bulb moment that he was exactly the kind of student who would be helped by Saxon's methodology. And as I thought about it, I came to realize that all my children who HAD used Saxon through high school ended up with an excellent math foundation. So while I may not prefer a spiral approach, it hadn't hindered my children at all...

 

I started him right in Saxon Alg. II after having him take the Alg. 1 final as a kind of pretest. I gave him a few (maybe 5?) lessons out of the Alg. 1 text based on his pretest results--not so much that he mastered new concepts but at least he was exposed to them before starting on the Saxon Alg. 2 text. He is currently excelling in Adv. Math and still needs the ongoing review Saxon offers.

 

I put my youngest on the Saxon sequence for high school as well--she is currently completing Alg. 2. If you asked her if she liked math, she would give an emphatic "no!", but if you hung around our house, you would hear her occasionally pop up with "Oh, this kind of problem is fun to do!" or "This is sooo easy." (Said about problems that *initially* she found challenging....) And at the end of Saxon Alg. 1, she confided in me (unsolicitedly) that while she preferred a more colorful textbook (like BJU's pre-Alg), she thought that she learned and retained FAR more with Saxon....

 

So, in a nutshell, we've gone back successfully.... But, correct placement is KEY and should be based on what your son knows and not on what text he may or may not have finished. Also, I think since he has been working through a geometry text, he'll probably be fine with the geometry in Saxon Alg. 2.

 

HTH,

Edited April 19, 2011 by vmsurbat
geometry addendum

[Hunter]

Yes, we went back to Saxon successfully. We used Aufmann which is similar to Lial's and also a bit of Amsco's Integrated Algebra and a little CLE Algebra and American School Algebra. It's a good thing we started so early because...we were all over the place. I was a young mom with a poor education trying to educate a gifted aspie :-0

 

I like CC math curriculums to supplement Saxon. I believe many, many, many students benefit by taking 4 years to complete Saxon 1 and 2 supplemented by CC math.