ODD or bipolar or aspergers or...

[MicheleB]

what???

 

my 11yo was dx with OCD over a year ago. it had been a while before that that we had noticed symptoms but i was really trying to hold off on meds. (sorry for the non-caps, my pinky is broken)

 

he has always been a sweet, loving, happy child except that he is very rigid about things like his cookie not being broken or having the cup he wants to have or everything being 'fair.' i know, doesn't sound easy-going, but aside from things like that he was not argumentative.

 

he started celexa a year or so ago and has become unbearable. he argues from the time he wakes up till he goes to bed. he has meltdowns several times a day. i have bipolar disorder and so does my oldest dd.

 

i also tried my 10yo ds on celexa because he has ocd. it made him very paranoid and the doctor told me she consulted with the town psychiatrist (very small, rural communit) and they felt celexa was not a good choice for him considering our bipolar history and that his symptoms on celexa were probabaly manifestations of a tendency toward bipolar.

 

after she told me that, i started thinking more about my 11yo and wondering if celexa is also causing him these severe argumentative episodes and meltdowns that weren't his typical m.o. yes, he is still very concerned and always has been that his food is a certain way or his cookie is whole or he's first, but the arguing and arguing with everyone- even my sister and mother- wasn't like him in the past.

 

the doctor told me that 11yo was becoming an adolescents and adolescents argue more. that really irked me because i have two teens and she has none. i know what teens are like. i know they 'argue' more and push more for their way. this isn't what i meant.

 

so.... i want to approach this with her again but want to have some more ideas and ammunition. i do think ds shows aspergers tendencies in that he only relates to boys or girls who hunt or love animals. he has a hard time in groups if the topic isn't about animals or maybe baseball. he'd rather go off and be alone. he's very rigid, as i said above.

 

i just don't know what to think. i want to take him off the celexa, but then what? my 10yo tried buspar and it didn't help him. i think my 10yo will need risperdal, but i don't think my 11yo would benefit from that as much as maybe just a mood stabilizer.

 

this, of course, affects schoolwork as well. 11yo *has* to be beside me, or hold the computer, or go first, or isn't going to do his work at all.... all. day. long. it's to the point where i just dread even starting.

[SailorMom]

I'm OCD - I never took meds for it. I am on Welbutrin now, and that is partially for the obsessive side of the OCD causing anxienty, but that is a recent development.

IMHO, meds are not necesarry for OCD unless it is causing a quality of life issue (i.e., can't leave the house, constantly washing hands, or the paranoia of your other son, etc).

My DS is also OCD, but - other than being picky about certain things, it's no big deal, and I think the meds would be a case of "a cure worse than the disease".

One thing to consider, OCD can be a sign of other problems. For example - we don't know if DS's OCD is just something he has - or if it is related to the physical neurological disorder he has....

I have no idea about OCD in relation to Bi-Polar, that certianly would change things up.....

Kids do become hugely argumentative for a while at about that age, but I have also heard of meds negatively affecting kids in that way - so you may want to try to wean him off the meds and see how it affects him.

[MicheleB]

thanks, sailormom.

 

his ocd was affecting his quality of life. he was consumed with scrupolosity, a form of ocd. he had to 'confess' everything he did- real or imagined wrong- constantly. it was out of control and he was distraught because of it. and the celexa really did help that. but he went so far on the other end of the spectrum that it makes me wonder what else is going on.

 

he also has processing disorders and other issues.

 

i worry about the bipolar since i have it, my dd has it and my 10yo is leaning towards it.

 

i would like to wean him off the celexa... he only takes 10mg a day... but i don't want to have nothing else in place, either, if he crashes and gets depressed or worse. which is why i'd like our doctor to dialogue with me on it some more. i will just have to tell her it's not "just arguing." i know arguing from over-the-top opposition constantly.

 

i hate these trial-and-error medication issues.

[Dobela]

I would ask for a referral to the psychiatrist personally. Your pediatrician is trying to do a good job, but your family history is complex and you need someone with a broader understanding of families such as yours. I would let her know that you value her and think that she has done a good job so far in caring for your family, and you appreciate the time she has spent talking to the other doctor on your behalf, but that you think it is time for you to be conversing personally with the psychiatrist.

[MicheleB]

thanks, dobela. i see what you mean. we are in a hard place because our town has one psychiatrist and he is almost impossible to get into, which is why our regular doctor works with him this way.

 

the nearest ped. psychiatrist would be over 2 hours away. but there would be no 'connection' there as far as really knowing us. i guess i worry about how beneficial the treatment would be when we'd be starting from scratch and also travelling so far. ???

 

i am stable on my meds and have been for several years, so i just see our family doc and if she had to, she would confer with the psych here in town. my dd is pretty ok with her meds as well, and when we've needed to, the family doc has conferred with the town psyh on her, too.

 

i always feel like the over-reactive stage mother. i know kids argue and i know teens want to assert their independence. my oldest will be 17 in a few weeks, so we've been all through that and we have a 15 yo. in other words, adolescence isn't something new to us, so when i say my child is 'argumentative' i mean, it's a problem. not just a typical 'phase.' kwim?

 

i think i will write her a letter. i can always express myself better that way and just lay out all the symptoms and issues as we're seeing them. and we may very well need psychiatric treatment or maybe more evaluations. it's confusing because he has always been rigid and had autistism spectrum behaviors... which can also be ocd.... and also seem like odd... or bipolar... or... you know. ;) i just want to make certain that celexa isn't contributing to the problem.

[SailorMom]

:grouphug: I'm sorry it was affecting his life - that is so tought, especially for a kid.

You know - you may want to try calling the psychiatrist and asking what general practice doctor he refers patients to. I know my therapist referred me to hers to get meds - she said he was great figuring them out, and worked well with her. Perhaps his GP would be a bit more knowledgable about psyche meds.

You may also want to try a regular child therapist. Not as good, but still.....

[asta]

thanks, dobela. i see what you mean. we are in a hard place because our town has one psychiatrist and he is almost impossible to get into, which is why our regular doctor works with him this way.

 

the nearest ped. psychiatrist would be over 2 hours away. but there would be no 'connection' there as far as really knowing us. i guess i worry about how beneficial the treatment would be when we'd be starting from scratch and also travelling so far. ???

 

i am stable on my meds and have been for several years, so i just see our family doc and if she had to, she would confer with the psych here in town. my dd is pretty ok with her meds as well, and when we've needed to, the family doc has conferred with the town psyh on her, too.

 

i always feel like the over-reactive stage mother. i know kids argue and i know teens want to assert their independence. my oldest will be 17 in a few weeks, so we've been all through that and we have a 15 yo. in other words, adolescence isn't something new to us, so when i say my child is 'argumentative' i mean, it's a problem. not just a typical 'phase.' kwim?

 

i think i will write her a letter. i can always express myself better that way and just lay out all the symptoms and issues as we're seeing them. and we may very well need psychiatric treatment or maybe more evaluations. it's confusing because he has always been rigid and had autistism spectrum behaviors... which can also be ocd.... and also seem like odd... or bipolar... or... you know. ;) i just want to make certain that celexa isn't contributing to the problem.

 

Put it in context: how far would you be willing to drive if your kid had a broken leg and the bone was sticking out?

 

There is no difference between mental illness and a broken leg.

 

A letter of your observations, however well intentioned, will not help a psychiatrist (sorry). A psychiatrist needs to physically see a patient, talk to them, and get a "sense" of what is going on - just as a general practitioner needs to do a physical exam to diagnose bronchitis by listening to their lungs. Just because a disease is in the brain does not negate the need for an in-person exam. And that is what it is, a disease. However uncomfortable that concept may be.

 

That said, Risperdal may indeed help, as it (and other AAPs) does have mood stabilizing properties. The difference being, AAPs do nothing to help with neuronal regeneration, and AEDs (anti-convulsant medications) used for mood stabilization do. You really do need a specialist to prescribe for this; a GP simply doesn't have the breadth of experience.

 

 

asta

 

 

ETA: I just saw your bit about Asperger's. Yes, the two can look quite a bit like one another. And obviously Asperger's is wiring, not disease. All the more reason to have a pdoc to sort things out.

Edited December 11, 2010 by asta

[Misty]

He sounds a bit Aspie-ish to me. What you described is so very familiar with one of my Aspie kiddos.