MCT Essay Voyage questions...

[HappyGrace]

Thinking about getting this for dd 5th grade. I think we're actually going to do Write Shop, but I think Essay Voyage might add on the academic writing that I want. A couple questions:

 

1. What grade dc do you have doing this and what was their writing experience going into it? Did they struggle with Essay Voyage, find it helpful, easy, did they like it, etc?

 

2. Are there actual exercises for them to do? I don't see any in the sample. If so, can you please describe an example of what they're like? Is it similar (if you know) to the open-ended writing instruction in Town level? Because I was NOT in love with that.

 

3. Can you give a general opinion of the program?

 

Side note: Dd did all of Town level and liked it. I'm thinking we can just do only the Essay portion of Voyage level (and probably CE2 at some point but not til another year due to packed schedule) because it looks like most of the grammar is redundant after Town, and we're using R+S English 5 anyway.

 

Thanks so much!

[SBP]

Thinking about getting this for dd 5th grade. I think we're actually going to do Write Shop, but I think Essay Voyage might add on the academic writing that I want. A couple questions:

 

1. What grade dc do you have doing this and what was their writing experience going into it? Did they struggle with Essay Voyage, find it helpful, easy, did they like it, etc?

 

I have two doing it now. I call them both 7th graders around here, but DD would be 6th if she were in PS. Neither is struggling with the day-to-day exercises in EV, which are challenging without being overwhelming and have led to some great discussions. DS, however, is struggling some with the composition assignments. We've done IEW prior to this year, and I think I've held his hand too much with regard to structure, and he really hasn't learned how to do it himself. Plus, like many boys his age, he's extremely reluctant to write twelve words if two will do. My goal right now is to get him to expand his quality content without resorting to a lot of contrived dress-ups, which is the part of IEW that drove me absolutely batty. I love, love, love MCT's philosophy on style and am just going to hope that by continuing to work with DS and expose him to the high quality examples in EV, I can help him begin to realize some of that same quality in his own writing.

 

2. Are there actual exercises for them to do? I don't see any in the sample. If so, can you please describe an example of what they're like? Is it similar (if you know) to the open-ended writing instruction in Town level? Because I was NOT in love with that.

 

I think they're a little less open-ended than PT, from what I remember. At the end of each chapter of EV, there's a list of "options" to choose from - a list of potential exercises relating to the material covered in that chapter. Most center around the geography theme of the book, and some aren't even writing assignments: "Use a globe to trace the journey between x and y countries," for instance. Some call for the student to write a paragraph or two, and some call for a five paragraph (or longer) essay on a certain topic. The most advanced assignments, IMO, are the one that ask the student to analyze the advanced essays covered in the chapter, identifying and discussing certain elements or comparing them with essays previously read. My dc aren't ready for these yet, but we might come back to them at some point. So there's a definite range of assignments, and the teacher can choose the ones that best fit his or her students' current abilities, adapt them (or not) to other subjects being covered, and circle back to the more difficult assignments as the students progress.

 

3. Can you give a general opinion of the program?

 

I love it! ... but one of the reasons I love it is that it works so beautifully in the context of the entire MCT LA program. I'm honestly not sure that I'd love it quite as much if I were doing it in isolation. And as a teacher, I feel that a bit more of the burden is on me than it was with IEW, where every single little thing in every writing project was quantified and checklisted. I'm really learning to grade my children's writing for the first time with MCT and am struggling with balancing praise and censure, making my expectations clear, and making sure the assignments match their abilities. All things I didn't much have to think about with IEW. That said, I am enjoying teaching it infinitely more, am learning from the program every day, and am more comfortable with it philosophically than I was with IEW.

 

Hope something here helps :)

 

SBP

Edited October 2, 2010 by SBP

[Shawna in Texas]

I have two doing it now. I call them both 7th graders around here, but DD would be 6th if she were in PS. Neither is struggling with the day-to-day exercises in EV, which are challenging without being overwhelming and have led to some great discussions. DS, however, is struggling some with the composition assignments. We've done IEW prior to this year, and I think I've held his hand too much with regard to structure, and he really hasn't learned how to do it himself. Plus, like many boys his age, he's extremely reluctant to write twelve words if two will do. My goal right now is to get him to expand his quality content without resorting to a lot of contrived dress-ups, which is the part of IEW that drove me absolutely batty. I love, love, love MCT's philosophy on style and am just going to hope that by continuing to work with DS and expose him to the high quality examples in EV, I can help him begin to realize some of that same quality in his own writing.

 

 

 

I think they're a little less open-ended than PT, from what I remember. At the end of each chapter of EV, there's a list of "options" to choose from - a list of potential exercises relating to the material covered in that chapter. Most center around the geography theme of the book, and some aren't even writing assignments: "Use a globe to trace the journey between x and y countries," for instance. Some call for the student to write a paragraph or two, and some call for a five paragraph (or longer) essay on a certain topic. The most advanced assignments, IMO, are the one that ask the student to analyze the advanced essays covered in the chapter, identifying and discussing certain elements or comparing them with essays previously read. My dc aren't ready for these yet, but we might come back to them at some point. So there's a definite range of assignments, and the teacher can choose the ones that best fit his or her students' current abilities, adapt them (or not) to other subjects being covered, and circle back to the more difficult assignments as the students progress.

 

 

 

I love it! ... but one of the reasons I love it is that it works so beautifully in the context of the entire MCT LA program. I'm honestly not sure that I'd love it quite as much if I were doing it in isolation. And as a teacher, I feel that a bit more of the burden is on me than it was with IEW, where every single little thing in every writing project was quantified and checklisted. I'm really learning to grade my children's writing for the first time with MCT and am struggling with balancing praise and censure, making my expectations clear, and making sure the assignments match their abilities. All things I didn't much have to think about with IEW. That said, I am enjoying teaching it infinitely more, am learning from the program every day, and am more comfortable with it philosophically than I was with IEW.

 

Hope something here helps :)

 

SBP

:iagree:

 

 

Yes. All this. DD is in 7th. We did Town last year and loved it. We did half of CW Homer previously.

[8filltheheart]

1. What grade dc do you have doing this and what was their writing experience going into it? Did they struggle with Essay Voyage, find it helpful, easy, did they like it, etc?

 

My 6th grader is using it right now. We just finished our 9th week and I believe we are over 1/2 way through the book. It lines up exactly where my dd is academically, so it is a good fit. She was a strong writer going into it. She had completely mastered structure of long writings prior to this (I am not going to call them essays b/c she was not arguing unique perspectives persuasively)

 

She does not like some of the examples that he uses (but then again, neither do I. I am not an Emerson or Thoreau person.) However, the actual little "voyage" essays are excellent. And she really likes those.

 

2. Are there actual exercises for them to do? I don't see any in the sample. If so, can you please describe an example of what they're like? Is it similar (if you know) to the open-ended writing instruction in Town level? Because I was NOT in love with that.

 

Like the PP, I am not impressed with the assignments. While my dd is an excellent writer, given a list of options where several are NOT writing assignments, that is what she is going to choose. We have started approaching those as discussion questions and I am doing like I have always done and having her write across curriculum.

 

3. Can you give a general opinion of the program?

 

The actual writing instruction and the example essays are a perfect fit for me b/c they reflect exactly how I teach writing. For my dd there was no learning curve or adjustment b/c it was simply finding how I teach in a book vs. my pulling things together.

 

As far as what grade level can benefit from VE, that is more difficult to assess. I have pulled my high schoolers aside to have them read a couple of the essay examples. His essay on the ridiculousness of apples was a perfect display of "debate rhetoric" on an inane topic. His tying the topic together with the repetition of key words examplified mastery of techique.

 

Would I use the entire EV with my high schoolers? No, they are beyond its presentation. But there are the odd nuggets in there for the majority of students. Coming at it from a younger child's perspective, I wouldn't recommend it for kids that haven't completely mastered independent paragraph writing and don't understand the basic elements of multiple paragraph writing.

 

FWIW......I really like the way CE ties in with VE. I don't like the grammar, but I really like digging into grammar. I like the instructional portions of the poetry, but I am not too keen on the poems selected (sort of like my dislike of Thoreau and Emerson......personal taste issues. ;))

Edited October 2, 2010 by 8FillTheHeart

[Wendy in ME]

I don't have much to add to what the other posters have said. I agree with their assessments. I am using EV with my 8th grade ds. He is not a strong writer and balks at having to write anything other than a fact-filled research type paper. He also does ok with a basic narrative. Ask him to evaluate something and then write about it, and then there is a problem. We are applying the lessons learned to his writing from Oak Meadow Civics, but he is also doing an additional assignment from EV. I choose the ones that ask him to compare the essay examples of great writers. This accomplishes two goals for us. He has to evaluate and write, and he gets more practice with the lesson. Many of the essay examples are worth reading and discussing in their own right, so the program is very rich. We are both enjoying it.

[HappyGrace]

These replies are very helpful, thank you. Dd has done three yrs of IEW in co-op but not much of IEW's report writing.

 

Another question-did you feel that EV gave you any very specific handholding for critiquing your dc's writing? I need that at this point!

 

And one more, which is very important-would I be ok just getting the TM, like we did for the Town level books?

 

Dd and I both like the discussion involved in MCT's books, and it sounds like even just the reading and discussing together in EV would be valuable!

[Caitilin]

I think the TMs are fine except for Essay Voyage itself, wherein the teacher stuff is too interwoven to make it work easily for the student. I have only the TMs for everything else, but based on rec's on this board and the yahoo group, I decided to bite the bullet and buy one extra book. :)

[HSDCY]

I am using EV with my 6th grader who has had 3 years of IEW (we also did MCT's SI and PT, but for reading only). We are in chapter 3 right now and we are enjoying it.

 

I usually use his assignments as my guideline and incorporate them into science or history related reports. It is very easy to make up your own assignments at this level because each chapter is about an important aspect of essay writing, I just ask ds to write an essay and make sure he put what he learns so far to use.

 

I find TM to be enough at this level.

 

MCT emphasizes on giving students feedbacks. Since they put in time and effort to write an essay, we as teachers need to put in time and effort to tell them what they did well and what they did wrong. So I usually writing down what I like and don't like about that essay plus all the editing. If I don't think ds is getting an important concept, I make sure to discuss it with him. That's about all I do for now. I think MCT's material offers more hand-holding when it gets to Advanced Academic Writing, but not the first three levels. However, I learn to trust his material after using it for two years so I am going to trust that waiting for one more year to get more hand-holding isn't going to ruin ds's writing;)

[DesertRambler]

I wouldn't recommend it for kids that haven't completely mastered independent paragraph writing and don't understand the basic elements of multiple paragraph writing.

 

 

We are racing through Sentence Island, having completed Grammar Island this year so far, trying to get to the Town level stuff so we can work on real writing of paragraphs. Do you think Paragraph Town will properly prepare my boys for Essay Voyage? They have never done any full, multi-paragraph writing before now. I am lucky to even get a full paragraph from a written narration from them! (We have focused mostly on remediating reading up to this year. This is our "year of writing instruction"! :D)

[Shawna in Texas]

We are racing through Sentence Island, having completed Grammar Island this year so far, trying to get to the Town level stuff so we can work on real writing of paragraphs. Do you think Paragraph Town will properly prepare my boys for Essay Voyage? They have never done any full, multi-paragraph writing before now. I am lucky to even get a full paragraph from a written narration from them! (We have focused mostly on remediating reading up to this year. This is our "year of writing instruction"! :D)

 

Yes. In fact, if you find an exercise helpful, you can do it again. There are 20 lessons in PT and we did quite a few of them more than once, particularly the last half. I found it to be my favorite piece of curriculum ever bought until I bought Essay Voyage. :D