Holly IN Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 Ok.... I am using TOG for Literature/history. Nothing else.... I am having a lot of trouble finding writing assignments that pertain to SWB suggestions. So I am sort of backpeddling right now. Ds wants to try Excellence in Literature with a few selections from SWB's WEM. Ok that is fine....However....What about the persuasive essay?? (I am going to go back and listen to the cd on high school writing) Response paper?? Comparision paper?? I am really confused about the different ways of writing. I am sure it is broken down somewhere. I have re-read WTM several times and I still do not get it. In TOG, it seems all the red pages for writing focuses on the history writing. I am just not seeing it right now for literature. We are in Yr 3 finishing up unit 1. Will start u2 in two weeks so maybe it will have more in u2. If we decide to do Excellence in lit. would it be sufficient enough in the writing dept of SWB's recommendation? Ds really wants to make sure he is ready for college and feels that he is not doing enough. Well according to SWB's cd he is NOT doing enough writing. So I am asking for help....I have searched for threads and found answers but I am more confused than ever. Ds is a sophmore if that would help you to help me figure out this writing stuff. Holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly IN Posted September 22, 2010 Author Share Posted September 22, 2010 bumping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momee Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 I can help with the TOG part. Her writing assignments cover some history and some literature topics to write about. Do you have or have you heard Marcia's writing talk? She gives an overview of her philosophy of writing and how that plays out in TOG's curricula. As far as SWB - I'm waiting for my copy of WTM new edition and haven't listened to the high school writing yet to help you there. I know how the old writing plan worked but I'm sure it's changed by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly IN Posted September 22, 2010 Author Share Posted September 22, 2010 Yes the writing plan is a bit different now. I am going to through the WTM book (the new one) and write down what is required. I have the CD talk too so will listen to that and report my findings here. Then sort it out with all of you. I do not have literary talk so I am going to order that today and listen to it. Thanks! Holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly IN Posted September 22, 2010 Author Share Posted September 22, 2010 This is what I have gotten so far: from the cd High school writing: Rhetoric: 2 persuasive papers every two weeks (1 page) and one or two (15 pgs/15-20 paragraphs) longer papers per year. These can be done in History, Science, Literature or any other subjects. According to the WTM book: Literature/great books: Write a brief essay about the book in form of: book report, evaluation, argumentive essay or analysis In the same chapter it says below: Write research paper in spring of 9th and 10th grade year. Explore a historical topic. This is what I have gotten so far. I am still confused. Getting ready to listen to the literary analysis CD. Holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa B Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 I don't have the newest book or the lectures, but here is what I have in my notes from the book I do have - WTM 2nd edition: History/Literature A 2+ page history summary pertaining to the time period around each book read A 2+ page essay of choice about each book read ** Approximately 12 books (8-16) should be read per year 1 longer history research paper per year Science Three 2+ page essays on science "great books" read each year 1 longer science based research paper per year English Continue with a writing program through high school (picking up with a rhetoric program when writing curriculum is complete.) So, this works out to 19-35 essays and two research papers per year plus a writing/rhetoric curriculum. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly IN Posted September 22, 2010 Author Share Posted September 22, 2010 In the anniversary edition book she said the student shouldn't write about every book but every other book. So that is ALOT of writing.... Holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa B Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 In the anniversary edition book she said the student shouldn't write about every book but every other book. So that is ALOT of writing.... Holly I don't mind the amount of writing so much as the fact that the student has to write two essays around each book. I'm sure my daughter, knowing this, would read exactly 8 books. :tongue_smilie: I have Excellence in Literature. The guides do have a general grading rubric at the end and examples of a couple types of essays. But, there is no instruction in how to write them. I think the author (and SWB) assume the student will learn all of these different types of essays in the ongoing writing program he/she is using. I can tell you what we are doing, but it may not be helpful as my dd is only 12. Dd takes an online writing class in place of a writing curriculum at home. For me, she writes three 1 page (or 3+ paragraph) essays per month. One each for history, science and literature. She must incorporate anything she has learned in her writing class. I still have to sit with her at the end of each step in writing her papers. She cannot yet turn out a really good, finished paper on her own. We also continue to work on outlining each week. We do not do any reseach papers at this time, but I do plan to add one per semester in a year or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Togo Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 (edited) As I understand the suggestions from the audio lectures on high school writing and literature, writing consists of the following: 1. Study of rhetoric, 2-3 hours per week (assumes completion of writing program) 2. Two 1-page persuasive papers per week in history or science or literature Literature options - formal (every three to four weeks) or biographical or historical or response 3. Research papers 2 in 9th grade, 4-8 pages 2 in 10th grade, 5-10 pages 1 in 11th grade, 12 - 15 pages 1 in 12th grade, 12 - 15 pages I read WTM, but I needed the audio lectures to understand the big picture. The suggestions are doable and practical. Two days per week, Monday and Tuesday, for example, write a 1-page persuasive paper on history or science or literature. That's a 1-page paper each day. If your student is able, study rhetoric three days per week; i.e. Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday if the 1-page papers are written on Monday and Tuesday. The goal is writing many short papers that formulate and defend a thesis statement. Even the history and science papers should have a thesis statement. In addition, the student should study literature terms using Essential Literary Terms: A Brief Norton Guide with Exercises. So, the schedule would look like this if you want to emphasize literature: Monday - history paper, Tuesday - literature paper with study of lit terms or Monday - science paper, Tuesday - literature paper with study of literature terms. Rhetoric on the other three days. Depending on the student's commitments and writing ability, you might need to suspend this writing during the late spring to work on the research paper(s). Perhaps you can use Excellence in Literature for the reading list, online research suggestions, and examples of papers. Use the SWB schedule for the actual writing. Edited September 22, 2010 by 1Togo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly IN Posted September 23, 2010 Author Share Posted September 23, 2010 Thanks! I am wanting to use Excellence in Lit but with SWB's writing as my number one and then some. Ds still needs to work on outlining though. I think I will have to do some serious backpeddling for awhile. Holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly IN Posted September 23, 2010 Author Share Posted September 23, 2010 Ok... Research papers: This falls under Rhetoric area with focus on History for this right?? For literature: How many response papers a year? What about book reports that is mentioned in the audio cd? How many Argumentive Essay ? What about literary paper (what is the real name of this paper...is it literary comparison paper?) I got the persuasive paper down. I understand that now. :) Thank you!! Holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Togo Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 (edited) No, the research paper is not rhetoric. The research paper is a long paper (length and number in my other post) written on a topic of interest. SWB suggests the resource "Writing Great Research Papers." The research paper(s) are written in the spring. Rhetoric is the study of advanced writing tools and presentation (simple definition). SWB suggests several resources, but Memoria Press has a rhetoric course. The student does not study rhetoric until they have a good writing foundation, either from SWB's logic writing suggestions or another resource; i.e. Writing Strands, Rod & Staff. The MP rhetoric could be done the senior year. Literature writing for high school consists of four types of papers. The response paper is one of those types. Here is a sample month: Week 1 Monday - 1-page biographical lit paper + 1/2 hour study of lit terms Tuesday - 1-page persuasive science paper Wednesday - Friday - Rhetoric study if student is ready. If not, use writing curriculum. Week 2 Monday - 1-page formal lit paper + 1/2 hour study of literature terms Tuesday - 1-page history paper Wednesday - Friday - Rhetoric study if student is ready. If not, use writing curriculum. Week 3 Monday - 1-page response lit paper + 1/2 hour study of literature terms Tuesday - 1-page science paper Wednesday - Friday - Rhetoric study if student is ready. If not, use writing curriculum. Week 4 Monday - historical lit paper + 1/2 hour study of literature terms Tuesday - 1-page persuasive history paper + 1/2 hour study of literature terms Wednesday - Friday - Rhetoric study if student is ready. If not, use writing curriculum. Continue with this through the fall. Rotate the four types of lit papers. No book reports for high school. In the spring, they will continue with this writing and add the research paper. Some students may not be able to handle the daily writing and the research work. Edited September 23, 2010 by 1Togo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Togo Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 (edited) The author of EIL suggests working through The Elegant Essay and Windows to the World, both from IEW, as prep for her curriculum. They would also be good prep for SWB's high school writing. Btw, there is some overlap with EIL and SWB lit papers. They just use different names or format (specific in the case of EIL) EIL - author, SWB - biographical EIL - historical approach, SWB - historical EIL - lit analysis (prompts included), SWB - response Following EIL would be enough with the 1-page science or history papers added to the mix. If your daughter likes it and you own it, go with it for year. Then, you could do a few years with SWB's suggestions for the lit writing. Edited September 23, 2010 by 1Togo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly IN Posted September 23, 2010 Author Share Posted September 23, 2010 Wow 1togo!! You have been a great help in breaking this down for me. :grouphug:All of you have been a great help!! Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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