Length of essays - 9th grade?

[regentrude]

We are doing Great Books and DD is writing literature analysis essays on topics related to the books (not research papers).

What length (word count) would you expect from a 9th grader?

Thanks - English is the one subject where I have no good feeling for expectations (I am not a native speaker and did not go through the US educational system.)

[Cedarmom]

Hmm.I don't think I would concentrate so much on word count as content.Things I would focus on

 

Having a strong thesis statement

 

Having examples (at least two) from the book.

 

Structure of essay- each paragraph states a point that supports my thesis and all sentences apply to that point (probably require 2-4 paragraphs) And an introductory paragraph and concluding paragraph

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

I'm not into word count but quality count. :)

 

That said, I expect my high schoolers to write 2 to 3 pages for most writting assignments. (single spaced.... although my dd18's college papers are to be double spaced).

 

I go easy on the first paper. In fact, most "first" assignments this year will not be graded. I will use them to demonstrate expectations for the remaining papers.

[bugs]

From Ms. Bauer's writing overview pdf file she suggests 2 one-page pursuasive papers per week in history, lit, or science. and two 4 -8 page research papers for a 9th grader.

[regentrude]

Things I would focus on

 

Having a strong thesis statement

 

Having examples (at least two) from the book.

 

Structure of essay- each paragraph states a point that supports my thesis and all sentences apply to that point (probably require 2-4 paragraphs) And an introductory paragraph and concluding paragraph

 

Thanks- I know about the basic structure of the persuasive essay, but I am wondering whether there really is only one kind, since most writing instruction I have seen focuses on this sort.

Right now DD is working on an essay about the use of epithets in Homer's Iliad. However, it is not intended to be a persuasive essay: she does not argue a thesis that can be right or wrong. She examines the recurrence of epithets, their function, where certain characteristics of persons come from, how it can be used to fix the meter - but it is more explanatory about a specific stylistic tool.

 

These may be dumb questions; however, in my home country the writing education was not as formulaic as in the US. I have never in my life written a 5 paragraph essay (I did not know such a thing existed until I started homeschooling) - even though I'm not an uneducated person. We certainly wrote theses essays, but we also wrote a lot of other stuff and the rules were never this rigid. - Just so you can understand why I am asking this stuff.

 

Thanks for all the help.

[Brindee]

My dd just finished her first 5-paragraph essay for this year (9th). We started out "easy" (I'm NOT a good writer, so, sad to say, her writing experience hasn't been very strong), with a 350 word essay. From here on out they'll get longer/more in depth. The quality goes without saying. It's definitely required! But, for her, the length of what she had to write was important to know, so that's what we did. I know it's not long, but it was a great learning experience for her, so we're happy with it! :D

Edited September 10, 2010 by Brindee

[Cedarmom]

Thanks- I know about the basic structure of the persuasive essay, but I am wondering whether there really is only one kind, since most writing instruction I have seen focuses on this sort.

Right now DD is working on an essay about the use of epithets in Homer's Iliad. However, it is not intended to be a persuasive essay: she does not argue a thesis that can be right or wrong. She examines the recurrence of epithets, their function, where certain characteristics of persons come from, how it can be used to fix the meter - but it is more explanatory about a specific stylistic tool.

 

These may be dumb questions; however, in my home country the writing education was not as formulaic as in the US. I have never in my life written a 5 paragraph essay (I did not know such a thing existed until I started homeschooling) - even though I'm not an uneducated person. We certainly wrote theses essays, but we also wrote a lot of other stuff and the rules were never this rigid. - Just so you can understand why I am asking this stuff.

 

Thanks for all the help.

 

Oh, I hope I didn't say something that made you think it was a dumb question. It was a very good question. If you wanted to say a specific amount I would say the essay you described would take 2 pages. But I would also focus on making sure she answered the questions completely.

[Anna]

I posted this almost a year ago. Perhaps some of it will help. Btw- Dd is now in her last year of undergrad school. She graduates in May as a Poli-Sci major. Her plan is to begin grad school next year and then do her PhD. She wants to teach college students.

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139634

Edited September 11, 2010 by Anna

[Guest]

Thanks- I know about the basic structure of the persuasive essay, but I am wondering whether there really is only one kind, since most writing instruction I have seen focuses on this sort.

 

I have never in my life written a 5 paragraph essay (I did not know such a thing existed until I started homeschooling) - even though I'm not an uneducated person. We certainly wrote theses essays, but we also wrote a lot of other stuff and the rules were never this rigid. - Just so you can understand why I am asking this stuff.

 

 

 

The five paragraph essay evolved as a pedagogical tool for teachers who had not had instruction on how to teach writing, and were not confident writers themselves. It also evolved hand in hand with the essay components of the SAT and similar tests. The nearly exclusive emphasis on this format in US schools is unfortunate, because it has shifted from being one tool, one approach, to being just about the only way many kids are taught -- not only to write, but to think about writing. And that is very limiting.

 

You might look at some college composition textbooks to get an idea of how other forms of essay writing are taught at the freshman level. Then you can play with these and adjust them for your daughter's age and schedule constraints.

 

Other things I've found useful include the freshman writing page on the University of Chicago's website, and the New York Times's educational section, which includes a number of examples of different kinds of essays that have appeared in the paper and lesson plans to go along with them.

 

I'll try to find and post these sites again, but I tend to lose my own post while searching -- so I'll do this first and then do the sites separately.

 

Another wonderful resource is the series put out each year: Best Essays of 2009 (or whatever year it happens to be). I also have Best Non-Fiction Writing of _____. Both have many very different examples of structure, form, style, etc.

 

A long time ago it seems to me I came across a lovely article called something like Reclaiming the Exploratory Essay... I'll have a look for that one, too. I kept it for years and loved it, but have no clue where it is now.

[Guest]

http://writing.program.uchicago.edu/resources/collegewriting

 

http://learning.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/07/08

 

If this link doesn't work (I just can't figure out the Times links), you can google the title: "Ten Ways to Develop Expository Writing Skills with the New York Times"

 

These two resources are wonderful.

 

And this may, or may not, be the article I remember:

Thomas Newkirk, Critical Thinking and Writing: Reclaiming the Essay

Eric ED 309457

[regentrude]

Thank you so much for the help.

If anybody else is interested in the link: the address of the U Chicago writing program has changed a bit:

http://writing-program.uchicago.edu/resources/collegewriting/index.htm