My Father's World "Reading" - Can I sub in the WTM Lit Lists for Logic Stage?

[Rhondabee]

nft.

 

Thanks!

[cbollin]

yes.

 

There will be times that the lists overlap too, then you have the best of the best from both.

I don't have a copy any longer of wtm logic lit lists (try saying that out loud 3 times fast) to compare...

 

but in the back of the mfw manuals there are general reading lists for "reading" time that come from classics in literature. Those are broken in approximate grade levels and does include logic stage grades.

 

also, various lit books in book basket in the years will have lots of books. And then MFW selects a few Progeny Press guides and novels to go with history.

 

But, you can use another trusted list like WTM for it instead.

 

no problem at all

 

-crystal

[Rhondabee]

I'm glad I asked! That sounds much easier than trying to add the WTM Lit to SL Core 7.

 

While I have you here....BWa, ha ha ha ha ha....

 

I am trying to understanding MFW for K-8, and I am really one of those who just has to "do it" to "get it". But, I think I may have been misunderstanding the use of the Book Basket. Is the Book Basket for history-related reading? or just for free-reading? or what?

 

I ask because I noticed in the weekly grid that "Book Basket" was written in underneath what looked to be a history assignment, but there was separate square (blank) labeled "Reading." Does this mean that the parent plans the literature/reading, while MFW is planning the history assignments?

 

This would obviously *NOT* be a negative in my book since I am looking for someone to plan the history, but I want my WTM Literature!

 

Oh, and are you supposed to choose between the SOTW and the Streams assignments, or do you do both for an advanced student?

 

Thanks for all your help!

 

yes.

 

There will be times that the lists overlap too, then you have the best of the best from both.

I don't have a copy any longer of wtm logic lit lists (try saying that out loud 3 times fast) to compare...

 

but in the back of the mfw manuals there are general reading lists for "reading" time that come from classics in literature. Those are broken in approximate grade levels and does include logic stage grades.

 

also, various lit books in book basket in the years will have lots of books. And then MFW selects a few Progeny Press guides and novels to go with history.

 

But, you can use another trusted list like WTM for it instead.

 

no problem at all

 

-crystal

[cbollin]

Advanced kids would do both Streams and SOTW.

 

Book basket vs. Reading. Let me see.. I've been trying to bullet point those differences for about 3.5 years now while typing. Let me see if I got it. ;)

 

Book Basket has several goals:

*to enrich topics you are learning in history, elementary science, and even art/music.

*to encourage a love of reading in a variety of genres in those topics

*to encourage free reading too , as you allow the child to select what looks interesting to try from the books you bring in. (so they get some say in it to help with independent learning and/or self motivation)

 

Reading time:

That’s a time to work on reading comprehension skills. You can use titles that are from book basket. But the difference is that you’d have the student finish the specific title. So, if you are in something like American History and you really want your child to do a book like Johnny Tremain (which will show up on book basket), then you might pull that book out of basket and schedule it to be done around the time it shows up in book basket weeks.

 

 

One of the subtle differences in Basket versus Reading time is that in basket, it’s a time to let the kids enjoy books without the pressure of having to finish it. This helps with that love of being around books. Pressure's off. Try another one.

So, if they pick it up and can’t stand it, they can read a caption or two, a chapter or two, and set it down. You might think of it like walking around book store. You might pull a book, go sit down, read parts of it while in the café, and think ‘blah.†Other times, you might get to the café and finish the book and think “that was cool. Where’s the next one?†It’s like that with book basket. Or like being in a waiting room. You can set it down, or take it back to the next room with you.

 

Reading time – you want them to finish it, and at least do some narration with you (in elementary) or in jr. high use Progeny Press guide for further analysis.

 

 

So, parents select which books to use for Reading Comprehension goals. You can use the lists MFW has, or a different list. It’s great when they match up to other topics you are studying, but life is ok if it doesn’t. For example, my oldest really wanted to do Redwall with Progeny Press guide. Where does that match in history? It doesn’t. So she did it in 7th grade when she did ECC.

 

 

-crystal

[Rhondabee]

Advanced kids would do both Streams and SOTW.

 

Book basket vs. Reading. Let me see.. I've been trying to bullet point those differences for about 3.5 years now while typing. Let me see if I got it. ;)

 

Book Basket has several goals:

*to enrich topics you are learning in history, elementary science, and even art/music.

*to encourage a love of reading in a variety of genres in those topics

*to encourage free reading too , as you allow the child to select what looks interesting to try from the books you bring in. (so they get some say in it to help with independent learning and/or self motivation)

 

Reading time:

That’s a time to work on reading comprehension skills. You can use titles that are from book basket. But the difference is that you’d have the student finish the specific title. So, if you are in something like American History and you really want your child to do a book like Johnny Tremain (which will show up on book basket), then you might pull that book out of basket and schedule it to be done around the time it shows up in book basket weeks.

 

 

One of the subtle differences in Basket versus Reading time is that in basket, it’s a time to let the kids enjoy books without the pressure of having to finish it. This helps with that love of being around books. Pressure's off. Try another one.

So, if they pick it up and can’t stand it, they can read a caption or two, a chapter or two, and set it down. You might think of it like walking around book store. You might pull a book, go sit down, read parts of it while in the café, and think ‘blah.†Other times, you might get to the café and finish the book and think “that was cool. Where’s the next one?†It’s like that with book basket. Or like being in a waiting room. You can set it down, or take it back to the next room with you.

 

Reading time – you want them to finish it, and at least do some narration with you (in elementary) or in jr. high use Progeny Press guide for further analysis.

 

 

So, parents select which books to use for Reading Comprehension goals. You can use the lists MFW has, or a different list. It’s great when they match up to other topics you are studying, but life is ok if it doesn’t. For example, my oldest really wanted to do Redwall with Progeny Press guide. Where does that match in history? It doesn’t. So she did it in 7th grade when she did ECC.

 

 

-crystal

 

 

I think you did great!

 

So, Book Basket is kind of like when I bring home a bunch of books about .... oh, Ancient Rome.... but all we're interest in for the week is Aqueducts. So we pull a chapter here and few pages there. But, probably even more flexible than that. Which, would probably be good, in my case. (Just trying to attach it to something I'm familiar with.)

 

No need to respond. Time for me to sit with some samples and pray.

 

Thank you again!

[Donna A.]

So, Book Basket is kind of like when I bring home a bunch of books about .... oh, Ancient Rome.... but all we're interest in for the week is Aqueducts. So we pull a chapter here and few pages there. But, probably even more flexible than that. Which, would probably be good, in my case. (Just trying to attach it to something I'm familiar with.)

 

 

You got it! :001_smile: Alternatively, you could make it more structured if you want to. For example, assign a biography from Book Basket to oldest child and have them do a written narration on it to go in their notebook. But you don't have to do that. You do with those books what YOU want to do, and it can vary from child to child, too. I'm surprised Crystal didn't mention the buffet example. :lol: What do you do when you eat at a buffet restaurant? You have an entire spread of great food choices in every category, and you pick and choose from that spread based upon time, appetite, likes and dislikes. That's how Book Basket works.

[Rhondabee]

You got it! :001_smile: Alternatively, you could make it more structured if you want to. For example, assign a biography from Book Basket to oldest child and have them do a written narration on it to go in their notebook. But you don't have to do that. You do with those books what YOU want to do, and it can vary from child to child, too. I'm surprised Crystal didn't mention the buffet example. :lol: What do you do when you eat at a buffet restaurant? You have an entire spread of great food choices in every category, and you pick and choose from that spread based upon time, appetite, likes and dislikes. That's how Book Basket works.

 

Oh, I didn't finish my whole thought....

 

Book Basket is like when I bring home books for history reports or science reports or whatever reading - but we also have a separate assigned "literature" reading at another time during the day. (I have followed WTM for the last 4 years with my oldest.)

 

Am I still right? :001_smile:

 

(And, coincidentally, I think this is why I have always thought MFW was "light" - not babyish, but light - because I didn't realize that it doesn't purport to schedule literature the way Sonlight does.)

Edited May 7, 2010 by Rhondabee

[cbollin]

I'm surprised Crystal didn't mention the buffet example. :lol: What do you do when you eat at a buffet restaurant? You have an entire spread of great food choices in every category, and you pick and choose from that spread based upon time, appetite, likes and dislikes. That's how Book Basket works.

 

:lol:

 

Donna,

I was avoiding buffet restaurants this weekend.

happy mother's day. (hee heee)

p.s. I'm wearing 'the hat" next weekend.

 

 

Book Basket is like when I bring home books for history reports or science reports or whatever reading - but we also have a separate assigned "literature" reading at another time during the day. (I have followed WTM for the last 4 years with my oldest.)

 

Am I still right?

 

Yes. You can still add in fiction and other things in basket. Basket is not limited to non fiction and you can even include non school stuff.

 

still with the food and eating out theme. I've never thought this one through. so it might be weird this time. just rambling a bit.... trying to develop an analogy for subtle differences in basket/reading and scheduled/non scheduled.....

 

well, ok... if book basket is a buffet....

 

MFW reading time is similar to having a menu in a sit down, non buffet restaurant -- you might pre select something for your children and have them finish it. But you still get choices of main dishes, sides, etc. But you're sitting down and not up and down at buffet. And usually have narrowed down the kind of food (books) that you want that day. (so that's the finish the book, but it's not exactly scheduled)

 

This differs from a "catered event" where all things (main and side dishes) are selected by someone else and scheduled and brought to you. That would be almost along the lines of SL or WTM reading list. (catered events are good too, aren't they?)

 

so, yeah, in MFW you can have your buffet for one "meal" and then you can have sit down menu, or if you want, you can do the full catering thing for the next meal the same day. In MFW, the typical day has about "3 meals" (of reading). Basket is your buffet. Reading time is your sit down menu. Read Alouds are the catered event. typical MFW -- blends best of all it in small doable portion bites.

 

how's that for mixing analogies? and why aren't we eating at home more often ;)

 

now... just where am I eating today on Mother's Day? home. I saw brownie mix. I'm happy.

 

 

and as a college friend of mine says "every analogy has its break down point"

 

-crystal

[Rhondabee]

:lol:

 

Donna,

I was avoiding buffet restaurants this weekend.

happy mother's day. (hee heee)

 

I feel somewhat guilty. My mother offered to cook a turkey breast at her house, and I thanked God that meant I didn't have to cook *or* brave a restaurant. (I think one year we ended up at McDonald's on Mother's Day....)

 

 

well, ok... if book basket is a buffet....

 

 

 

MFW reading time is similar to having a menu in a sit down, non buffet restaurant -- you might pre select something for your children and have them finish it. But you still get choices of main dishes, sides, etc. But you're sitting down and not up and down at buffet. And usually have narrowed down the kind of food (books) that you want that day. (so that's the finish the book, but it's not exactly scheduled)

 

This differs from a "catered event" where all things (main and side dishes) are selected by someone else and scheduled and brought to you. That would be almost along the lines of SL or WTM reading list. (catered events are good too, aren't they?)

 

...and as a college friend of mine says "every analogy has its break down point"

 

-crystal

 

Well, I was worried that you guys would see me as some homeschooling ogre. ("You will finish this book OR ELSE kid!") In reality, I usually just have a list of literature books (from WTM) and a requirement to "read daily for 45 minutes". And if a book is just completely yuck-o after 2-3 days, we drop it. A rare event, but not a catastrophe.

 

At any rate, MFW's a done deal. Yesterday, I was trying to figure out how much it would cost for 10th grader's World History, 7th grader's Exploration to 1850, and Kindergarten - just to let DH know. It took such a long time to put everything in the cart (since I had so many of the pieces, it was hunt and peck book-by-book), and then I couldn't save the cart - so I just went ahead and bought it. I'm certain it's what we're supposed to be doing next year, especially after reading one of your posts on the MFW Board about the Stobaugh SAT book. The MFW website does not make clear how to use that book to "beef up" the Great Books component (if desired), which is unfortunate.

 

I do appreciate all your help and posts over the years, Crystal. I think this is the first weekend since I started homeschooling I am truly *completely* at peace - *no* worries whatsoever. It's a shame MFW can't give you a commission - :tongue_smilie:!

 

Happy Mother's Day!

[cbollin]

I'm certain it's what we're supposed to be doing next year, especially after reading one of your posts on the MFW Board about the Stobaugh SAT book. The MFW website does not make clear how to use that book to "beef up" the Great Books component (if desired), which is unfortunate.

 

I know.. They just started selling that book and their IT department isn't very large yet and sigh......I know... I wish and pray so much for MFW's website...

I think Julie in MN and I are figuring it out as we go with that book. It seems easy when it's in front of me.

 

 

I do appreciate all your help and posts over the years, Crystal. I think this is the first weekend since I started homeschooling I am truly *completely* at peace - *no* worries whatsoever. It's a shame MFW can't give you a commission - :tongue_smilie:!

 

Happy Mother's Day!

 

 

Thank you. and I'm glad my posting helps other customers like me to see the unseen when their website doesn't do it. My husband is always teasing me on that "you sure work hard for that zero percent commission". :) my dh thinks they should pay me too. ;)

 

-crystal

[dhudson]

:iagree:with the ladies above. I have a well stocked book basket of books that go along with the topics we are learning about in MFW and then my kids have a separate reading time allotted for "Great Books". They read a classic (either from the classic list in the back of the MFW TM or from WTM) every week at our house.

 

I just want to publicly state that MFW is not light and it's not too easy, my kids are all very gifted and score very well on their tests and we are a dedicated MFW family. We are also very classical homeschoolers and love TWTM here.

[Rhondabee]

my kids have a separate reading time allotted for "Great Books". They read a classic (either from the classic list in the back of the MFW TM or from WTM) every week at our house.

 

 

 

This is something "MFW-fans" need to be posting often and up-front, because the MFW website has something about "use two Progeny Press guides a year." And so for years now, I've thought their K-8 recommendation was to read only two literature books a year.

 

(I hope that doesn't sound too bossy! It's not meant to be. I just want those who know the "real" MFW and feel attacked to know where some of the opposition is coming from.)

[cbollin]

This is something "MFW-fans" need to be posting often and up-front, because the MFW website has something about "use two Progeny Press guides a year." And so for years now, I've thought their K-8 recommendation was to read only two literature books a year.

 

(I hope that doesn't sound too bossy! It's not meant to be. I just want those who know the "real" MFW and feel attacked to know where some of the opposition is coming from.)

 

doesn't sound bossy at all. It's quite nice to know what is unseen or not clear to those not using the program. makes it easier to answer questions or say what's not seen.

 

so let me practice on the "often and up front"....

You've been so nice to let me try new ways of saying stuff...

 

Those two Progeny Press guides are just one aspect of "English" in jr. high years in MFW.

 

In those jr. high years, for "English/language arts", the 7th/8th grader in MFW will:

1. do Grammar (either All in One, or Applications of Grammar)

 

2. Writing Strands (or parent can use a different writing program for formal teaching). One aspect of Writing Strands includes "take a week off of writing and read and discuss literature". Well, MFW schedules it a little differently than a week on and a week off...but reading those great books is part of MFW plan.

 

3. 2 Progeny Press Guides to go in depth with lit. analysis on specific books.

 

4. "free reading" of great books/classics when not otherwise doing PP guide. less formal analysis routes with free reading. MFW provides a list of classics near the end of the teacher's manual sorted by grade level/reading level. In the 6th-8th grade section there are 26 classic/great books listed. in 5th/6th (and up)there are 18 listed. and so on.... goes all the way down to easy readers and picture books, and plus they recommend Honey for a Child's Heart if you need more.

 

4A -- in ECC, there are 4 additional missionary biographies to read in addition to 2 progeny press books.

 

 

5. book basket - which will include fiction and novels as well.

 

6. various built into the unit studies such as

* Narration, copywork, dictation, and memorization

* Vocabulary (Exploring Countries and Cultures, Creation to the Greeks, and Rome to the Reformation)

*Vocabulary in Science texts with Apologia and well, with PP guides too.

* Letter writing

* Composition in science and/or history

* And more because I probably left out something.

 

 

I tell you Rhonda..... if you or I did everything in the manual, no one would say it is light! so this little mfw-fan will keep typing and linking. and typing and linking.

 

I guess Donna is waiting for me to say something about low impact aerobics doesn't not mean low intensity. anyway... off to my high intensity, but low impact "lite" jazzercise class. no one better say it is "lite" or I'll say "get lower on those plie marches"

 

-crystal

[Donna A.]

I guess Donna is waiting for me to say something about low impact aerobics doesn't not mean low intensity. anyway... off to my high intensity, but low impact "lite" jazzercise class. no one better say it is "lite" or I'll say "get lower on those plie marches"

 

 

:lol: Just now catching up on this thread... busy weekend.

 

Ever tried T-Tapp, Crystal? Definitely low impact, high intensity. :001_huh: http://www.ttapp.com/

 

If you know anything about a Charlotte Mason education -- the way SHE would've done it, not the more laid-back interpretations we sometimes read today -- I would call that low impact, high intensity. That's the kind of education MFW provides. Sort of like a timed released capsule... you don't get hit with this big WOW factor when you first take it, but as it distributes throughout the blood stream, you begin to see how it works over time. Chewing on different concepts over time, connecting the dots.... it happens even without spending 7 or 8 hours a day on academics.

 

It starts out gentle, gives the child time to grow and mature, lays a solid biblical foundation, and then becomes more classical as the child gets older. At the same time, the flexibility of the program allows for more or less of certains aspects of it, too. It's very adaptable to Mom's personal style, IMO. :)

[Rhondabee]

I tell you Rhonda..... if you or I did everything in the manual, no one would say it is light! so this little mfw-fan will keep typing and linking. and typing and linking.

 

 

-crystal

 

I don't even have it here, yet, and I *think* I am wrapping my brain around it. I guess that sounds arrogant - but I can't wait to see that manual, since it obviously holds so much more than the sample pages show!

 

(For example, I can see how the 9th grade Ancient Year Lit looks light because we did the entire Smarr Ancient Lit this year, while MFW only schedules part of it and doesn't add as many in books of the same depth as it left out. But if you were also doing books from the Stobaugh list alongside MFW...Well then it all comes out in the wash - and it's not *all* Ancients Great Books, which can get overwhelming to a 9th grader. But this is the K-8 Board, and I digress...)

 

For K-8...I don't know how I would phrase it so that a WTM'er would see it. I might emphasize the daily "reading of classic literature" first, then mention that each year any two selections can be chosen for "in-depth analysis" with Progeny Press guides. Not sure...but I'll be thinking about this while when Box Day is finally here!

 

ETA: Completely unrelated, but there is a old Blockbuster's location (just recently went out-of-business) within walking distance of DH's office, and I have started praying that a Jazzercize will move in - isn't that too funny!!! (We're homeschooling at his office - so, yes, I imagine we'll be cutting lots of "extras" from the manual! This is my year to simplify.)

Edited May 10, 2010 by Rhondabee