Math Mammoth/Singapore Dilema. Calling all "experts"!

[hmschooling]

Sorry if I start to ramble, I am just racking my brain about this!

 

I've been raving about Math Mammoth which I am using with DD. (Grade 3)

We tried Singapore math and it was a bust...but I wasn't using the HIG's, and at first, didn't do much hands on teaching. I also don't "get" SM methods, mostly since I was schooled in the 80's and also b/c we didn't start with SM from the beginning. She's also not my "mathy" child. MM is perfect for her. I can teach well from it, and it seems very comparable to SM.

 

Now, I'm preparing for my DS's 1st grade year coming up this fall. He's mathy-- math is his favorite subject and he seems to pick up our informal real life math "lessons" and apply them to math work and real life rather naturally. I've been thinking I would just start him in MM1 soon.

 

But, now I'm wondering...

 

I was looking at MM from the perspective of a mom that doesn't get math, teaching a child that doesn't get math. Now, I'm having to change my perspective and look at MM as a mom the still doesn't get math , teaching a child that really does. Is MM still the right choice? I'm wondering if I should start with SM with him from the get go. I want to chose the one that will fit us best. I realize I'd learn the SM way if I start it from the beginning. I just don't know if SM is really that big of a difference for a mathy child compared to MM...By the end of MM6, I know he'd be just as great as math as the end of SM6, since over the years they will both cover the same things, just at different times, and in a similar manner. I'm also worried about me having to teach it...I'm not sure the explanations in the HIG's are clear enough for me to explicitly teach him the way he should be taught. (I'm thinking of Correlano's fraction lesson example in another post I can't find right now-- in that, I completely prefer the MM example!)

 

So, either MM or SM Standard Ed. w/HIGs. Is the St Ed HIG much more clear for the mom? Even a mom that doesn't get math so well? I know how important presentation is.

 

Is one truly better for a mathy child or are they both equally appropriate? Depending on my decision, I would like to add in IP and/or CWP to SM, and if it will match up well enough, I'd like to add CWP to MM. (I'd also like to know which level and when to add CWP to SM and MM. Are they ready for it right from the start? Do you add it in half way through, a level below, ???

[Corraleno]

I think Singapore and MM are very very similar in terms of what the student gets out of it. The main difference is that Singapore was designed for classroom use, where the teacher would be teaching the concepts, doing the textbook problems on the board, etc. In designing Math Mammoth, Maria Miller didn't "dumb down" the math, she just added the explicit teaching/explanations that make it so much easier for homeschoolers to use. She's Finnish, BTW, and has a degree in mathematics as well as teaching (and she's a homeschooling parent herself). Many Singapore math users cite the high test scores of Singapore students, but Finnish kids are right up there as well.

 

Why not stick with MM as a spine, and add in some fun "puzzle math" with MEP? You can also add books like The Grapes of Math and Penrose the Mathematical Cat and other "living math" books, including (once your DS understands fractions) Life of Fred. :001_smile:

 

Jackie

[karensk]

I've been raving about Math Mammoth which I am using with DD. (Grade 3) We tried Singapore math and it was a bust...but I wasn't using the HIG's, and at first, didn't do much hands on teaching. I also don't "get" SM methods, mostly since I was schooled in the 80's and also b/c we didn't start with SM from the beginning. She's also not my "mathy" child. MM is perfect for her. I can teach well from it, and it seems very comparable to SM.

 

Now, I'm preparing for my DS's 1st grade year coming up this fall. He's mathy-- math is his favorite subject and he seems to pick up our informal real life math "lessons" and apply them to math work and real life rather naturally. I've been thinking I would just start him in MM1 soon.

 

But, now I'm wondering...

 

I was looking at MM from the perspective of a mom that doesn't get math, teaching a child that doesn't get math. Now, I'm having to change my perspective and look at MM as a mom the still doesn't get math , teaching a child that really does. Is MM still the right choice? I'm wondering if I should start with SM with him from the get go. I want to chose the one that will fit us best. I realize I'd learn the SM way if I start it from the beginning. I just don't know if SM is really that big of a difference for a mathy child compared to MM...By the end of MM6, I know he'd be just as great as math as the end of SM6, since over the years they will both cover the same things, just at different times, and in a similar manner. I'm also worried about me having to teach it...I'm not sure the explanations in the HIG's are clear enough for me to explicitly teach him the way he should be taught. (I'm thinking of Correlano's fraction lesson example in another post I can't find right now-- in that, I completely prefer the MM example!)

 

So, either MM or SM Standard Ed. w/HIGs. Is the St Ed HIG much more clear for the mom? Even a mom that doesn't get math so well? I know how important presentation is.

 

Is one truly better for a mathy child or are they both equally appropriate? Depending on my decision, I would like to add in IP and/or CWP to SM, and if it will match up well enough, I'd like to add CWP to MM. (I'd also like to know which level and when to add CWP to SM and MM. Are they ready for it right from the start? Do you add it in half way through, a level below, ???

 

You said you're able to teach well with MM, so it sounds like you're "getting" the math via MM, right? So maybe go with what's already working? It's important to pick a math curriculum that clicks with you as well with your student.

 

Yes, it'd be easier to learn the SM way if you start at PM-1 with the HIGs or TGs. (But I think that's true for most math programs.) Having used PM-1 through 6, I found that PM-1 was the most difficult in terms of getting my brain around their approach to math because it was so foreign to me. I've found the explanations and suggested hands-on activities in the PM guides to be thorough and helpful. It'd be great if you could get your hands on some HIGs to see the explanations yourself. One of the things I like about the HIGs/TGs written by Jennifer Hoerst is that they're written for teachers with no math teaching experience, and especially with no Singapore math experience.

 

I have no idea if one program is better than the other for a mathy student, as I haven't used MM.

 

Regarding the SM supplements (Intensive Practice, Challenging Word Problems)....both are arranged by topic that corresponds (for the most part) to the order of topics in the PM U.S. series. Since they're arranged topically, you could easily use these to supplement most any math program, IMO. The CWP books provide examples, showing you how to do the bar diagrams. But the IP books show very few examples; for some students & parents, this would be fine, but others would need more instruction, I think (I wouldn't have been able to figure it out). So then, you might need to get an HIG for that level to figure out what their approach is.

 

HTH!

[Homeschooling6]

In MM4 Maria Miller recommends adding CWP so you can still fit that in. Since you are already using MM and it's very similar to SP I would recommend to just stick with MM and add in IP or CWP.

[hmschooling]

I think Singapore and MM are very very similar in terms of what the student gets out of it. The main difference is that Singapore was designed for classroom use, where the teacher would be teaching the concepts, doing the textbook problems on the board, etc. In designing Math Mammoth, Maria Miller didn't "dumb down" the math, she just added the explicit teaching/explanations that make it so much easier for homeschoolers to use. She's Finnish, BTW, and has a degree in mathematics as well as teaching (and she's a homeschooling parent herself). Many Singapore math users cite the high test scores of Singapore students, but Finnish kids are right up there as well.

 

Why not stick with MM as a spine, and add in some fun "puzzle math" with MEP? You can also add books like The Grapes of Math and Penrose the Mathematical Cat and other "living math" books, including (once your DS understands fractions) Life of Fred. :001_smile:

 

Jackie

 

Nice that you mentioned that she's Finnish. I just watched a news report earlier today about Finnish schools and they are outstanding! Best in the world in math and science if I remember correctly.

And thank you for your explanation of the program. Very helpful!

Edited April 12, 2010 by hmschooling

[hmschooling]

Thank you all for your replies. :001_smile:

 

So, if I go with MM for ds for 1st, should I even bother with SM EB K 2A&B that I have for right now? Or should we just do fun math and real life stuff until we start MM? I'm thinking about starting him slowly over the summer if we do MM. I'm pretty convinced to do MM....that's exciting to be nearing a final decision!! LOL

 

Does she suggest manipulative lessons in the earlier levels, or just the pictorial? I know it's pictorial in MM3, and I add in manips when helpful. But is that included with 1&2?