Latin for 3rd grader who struggles with LA's

[m0mmaBuck]

I was thinking ahead to next year and remembered that SWB suggests beginning Latin in the 3rd or 4th grade. However, since DS struggles with LA's as it is, I wonder if I should start next year or hold off.

 

If you were going to start Latin knowing that your child struggles with LA's, would you suggest Lively Latin, Prima Latina, or some other curriculum and why?

[Momling]

I think of it like this...

 

You can enroll your child in swimming or piano or ballet lessons or whatever at age 4 or 5 and most kids will have fun with it, but what they learn at that age is so miniscule compared with what they'll learn when they're 8 or so and really ready for the subject. Most kids at age 8 need a few weeks to do what took a year to learn at age 4.

 

I think Latin (or any language not spoken in the house) is probably best started at 11 or 12 or later if you want to really be efficient. What you learn in a year of Latin aimed at 7 or 8 yr olds is really very little compared to what you learn in the first year of high school Latin. If you look at the curriculum that is popular here on this board, you'll see folks starting song school latin and then starting again with Minimus or LFC and then starting with Latin Prep and then starting with Wheelers (or whatever). I think we do that because our focus is building an appreciation for Latin and learning some vocabulary more than it is really knowing the language.

 

So I'd say that it's up to you. If you've got time and want to play with Latin and your child is interested, go for it! But if your child has other needs or interests or if you really want to do first year Latin only one time, I'd set it aside.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Momling

[SilverMoon]

Well, what part of LA isn't he doing well in? If it's across the board I would put more focus on strengthening those and hold off on Latin for now. He can only absorb so much in a day, and getting the basics down is more important.

 

Otherwise, I'd go for one of the programs that are just playing with some basic Latin vocabulary rather than a full course. Song School Latin is one, I *think* Minimus is another.

[PeterPan]

Michelle--I started my dd, who may or may not be similar to your ds, on latin when she was in 1st, going into 2nd. She did Prima Latina, LC1, and part of LC2. During the summers we did some of the Ludre Latine books. I can tell you, for a fact, her brain is a SEIVE for little details like vocab. It just doesn't stick!! It was exasperating for me, because I'm so the opposite, a language nut who can memorize long lists of whatever, just because. She just can't. She needs context, repetition, etc., and even then it barely sticks. Her math is the same way. She's amazing conceptually, but we worked SO long, so hard on those math facts, and even then I wouldn't guarantee their solidity. I've given her a multiplication table and moved on. Anyways, with latin (and greek and french, all in the sig), she just doesn't nail vocab. She's awesome on concepts. She can memorize the declensions and chants of LC and apply them like a pro. But ask her to know the word she has studied every year for 4 years, and she won't.

 

So, what's a mom to do? Sigh, I've thought about different options. I guess we could have waited. I think SWB did this with her non-language ds, if you sort of read between the lines. (She started Lively Latin at a really late age.) However I like that my dd started languages at a fearless age, when she didn't know they were hard and wasn't afraid of them, at a time when her auditory learning skills were strong, her memory most supple. She memorized those chants INCREDIBLY well, and that was worth a lot.

 

What I wouldn't do is pick a program that aggravates his weaknesses. Pick one that uses what he does best. Like don't do LfC with a kid who can't write that much, is frustrated by colorful pages, doesn't want to read to learn, etc. etc. You could do PL then LC1, focusing just on the memory work. Or do Lively Latin. Then go into something like First Form Latin. It was my other choice for dd. I put her into Latin Prep this year because it has contextualized practiced, helping things stick a little better. It is working, but it takes *me* to get it done. A mom gets weary when every subject is so mom-intensive, kwim? Lively Latin and then into First Form, that would be a lot easier and more consistent on implementation. Lots of practice, the audio component of the dvd lessons. Yup, that's what I'd recommend. If I weren't doing Latin Prep (or trying to get to it the days we don't, ugh), that's what I'd be doing.

[m0mmaBuck]

I guess I should be specific. He struggles with spelling... He understands punctuation and to some extent grammar. I have been working to remedialize him since we started HS'ing in January since it seems these things were not well addressed in PS. He has a good vocabulary for speech but because he struggles with spelling his written work is limited. His ability to do narration work is also limited by his poor spelling skills.

 

OhElizabeth, I feel like perhaps I should forego Latin for another year not only to spend extra time on LA's but also because the thought of one more mom-intensive subject feels overwhelming. He is primarily independent with math (beyond new concepts of course) but it seems he needs a lot of help with every other subject. Adding Latin at this point may just push me over the edge!

[Ester Maria]

I actually think that 10-11 is the ideal age for most children to start Latin (and that even later is not too late), not earlier. This is not to say that you cannot accomplish great things with motivated and language-sensitive littles, but for most kids, early elementary Latin is rather useless. Also note that kids learn languages differently at that age and for not all of them the analytic approach will "click", so modern, spoken, foreign languages are far better choice to spend time on in that period.

 

This is especially true if you have a child who struggles with reading, with written work. Latin is studied analytically, not by immersion - that fact itself makes it harder for kids up until certain age, let alone if they're not very strong at their native language LAs.

I also see that you're new to homeschooling, started few months ago - if I were you, I would allow myself more time to get everything going, see if there are more important gaps to fill, see how to adjust the system I've planned to my child (to see what's realistic, what's not, what needs to be fixed), and leave Latin aside for a little. A year or two really won't make a difference in the end, which is also one of the reasons why classics can be comfortably pushed far into middle school. You don't have to rush anywhere, see what fits your individual situation the best.

[SilverMoon]

I guess I should be specific. He struggles with spelling... He understands punctuation and to some extent grammar. I have been working to remedialize him since we started HS'ing in January since it seems these things were not well addressed in PS. He has a good vocabulary for speech but because he struggles with spelling his written work is limited. His ability to do narration work is also limited by his poor spelling skills.

 

OhElizabeth, I feel like perhaps I should forego Latin for another year not only to spend extra time on LA's but also because the thought of one more mom-intensive subject feels overwhelming. He is primarily independent with math (beyond new concepts of course) but it seems he needs a lot of help with every other subject. Adding Latin at this point may just push me over the edge!

 

It seems you've answered your own question. ;) I'd pass on it for this year just based on your feeling overwhelmed at another mom led subject. The extra year could certainly equip your ds to be more ready for Latin, too.

 

 

 

Like don't do LfC with a kid who can't write that much, is frustrated by colorful pages, doesn't want to read to learn, etc. etc.

Your reasons here are the opposite of LFC. :001_smile: LFC doesn't require much writing, has b/w pages, and the meat of the lesson is on the dvd.