Need advice re: h/s math (and pre-h/s)

[distancia]

Hi. I am looking for input. Earlier I posted that my D, age 17, is now being home-schooled due to illness. In high-school she finished the first semester of Algebra 2 with a B+. She began using Teaching Textbooks to complete Semester 2. (but really, it doesn't matter what text she is using, at this point....)

 

Anyway: it has been only a week into TT and D began at chapter 4, early on in the book, to do a refresher. She took a Chapter Test and she scored a 13 out of 25 wrong on "easy stuff" that she says she has known since middle school. Scientific notation, dividing fractional algebraic expressions, etc. That's just the tip of the iceberg.

 

I have known, all along, that there are some gaps in my daughter's education. In 6th grade she was out sick from p/s for 6 months, September through February, having only a 2x weekly tutor from the public school come to our house and try to keep D current as much has possible.

 

In 7th grade she took 7th grade math. In 8th grade she was pushed into Algebra, skipping Pre-Algebra. She got a B in Algebra but hubby and I felt that she didn't know her material, so we had her re-do Algebra in 9th grade. This time she got a C. In 10th grade she took Geometry and got a C. In 11th, thus far, a B+.

 

Here is our dilemma: D is adamant that she is doing "okay and she doesn't need anything more than to just to memorize the formulas enough to get by. Her SAT (taken in September at age 16 when she first began Algebra 2) was a 500, unfortunately high enough so that she can go right into College Algebra. Her IQ, in comparison, is 140 English (genius) and 144 Math (genius).

 

I sense that D can do the monkey see, monkey do of math: she memorizes how a problem is done and copies it, and she can test ok (enough to satisfy her without having to do a lot of work),but in terms of understanding? Forget it. I would like to pull her all the way back to middle school and have her start all over again. [she had a friend who was doing just that, she was in AP Calculus and she ended up going to Sylvan 4x a week to learn how to do fractions and percentages correctly, etc...]

 

I have explained to D that when she goes into College Algebra she will be expected to do the work of Algebra 2 and Pre-Calc and she will have to do it in half a year...and does she want to be miserable that half a year? My words fall on deaf ears.

 

I am prepared to do battle, because that is what will happen. I want to find the best way to re-train her mind so she can do math conceptually. Typical texts will not help. I was wondering if Singpaore Math will help her do math, Asian style. I have read that the technique teaches the student to see math in a different way, more like a manipulative (mass) methodology. Also I was considering having her read Math Doesn't Suck and Kick My Math to learn how to see math in a different way. I am at a loss. I tried her on manipulative in 3rd grade when she was having troubles with fractions (her teacher had a nervous breakdown mid-year and the sub who came in was to a math teacher, couldn't teach it) but D never mastered the manipulatives....don't know why, she is such a visual girl with OCD tendencies. She is turned off by female voices. She is easily frustrated because of her high IQ and inherent laziness (if it comes easily fine but otherwise, forget it)

 

Please, any and all suggestions!

[Corraleno]

Does she like to read? Have you looked at Life of Fred? If the Fred books appeal to her, she could probably start with Pre-Algebra & Biology, then do Beginning Algebra. It teaches both the concepts and the everyday applications of math, and it's very very funny.

 

Another suggestion for a reasonably quick and painless way to review basic math concepts would be Math Mammoth ~ the 6A book will be out this month, and 6B should follow in a few months. It is very similar to Singapore in approach, but much easier to use (especially in your current situation). Math Mammoth really excels at explaining math concepts in a very clear, step-by-step way, and provides just enough practice problems to really solidify the concept without becoming tedious. Also the way MM illustrates the concepts fulfills the same function as manipulatives, without your DD feeling humiliated that she's doing "toddler math." And because it's self-teaching, she can do it independently. I would really try to avoid butting heads with a 17 year old, and try to make her feel more like the two of you are on the same team.

 

My ds is also very visual, and very gifted, yet he was in remedial math when I pulled him from PS. He just hadn't been taught in a way that enabled him to "see" the concepts. Math Mammoth totally solved that problem for him, and I think if you could persuade your DD to give it a try, it might really help her. She can take the placement test here (this is the end-of-year test for MM 5): http://www.mathmammoth.com/preview/tests/End_of_Year_Test_Grade5.pdf

 

(And if she doesn't pass the 5th grade test, then I would definitely back her up into whatever level she needs, and have her go through the levels as quickly as she can, maybe just doing every 3rd problem, as long as she gets the concepts.)

 

Jackie

Edited March 20, 2010 by Corraleno

[Guest]

A couple of questions: first, is she interested in math, or in a career that will rely on or utilize math? If she isn't, what pressing reason does she have for mastery over something she may never use again? A very bright child may focus on areas of interest while finding no purpose for others: it's not so much laziness as intensity and precision of intellectual focus.

 

Second, how much practice has she had with scientific notation and the other things you mentioned, recently? Math books can tend to "cover" a topic and then you never return to them that year, or if you do, it's with a handful of review problems tucked away at the ends of chapters and it's not consistent. If this is the case, forgetting is the norm even for kids who have never been out sick a day in their lives, and I'd bet it would come back to her quite easily and quickly with a brief review.

 

With a student so bright, my admittedly contrary instinct would be to forge ahead rather than to back up: present challenging conceptual content rather than force her to grind through computations or things she's already been through once. Often, my daughter has been caught by an advanced concept and will then be willing to learn the more basic skills or strategies or procedures to be able to work with those higher level concepts. I know this goes against the grain of a lot of people's thinking and I have no way of arguing for its effectiveness except that having read about this kind of teaching in David H. Albert's books, i tried it with my daughter and saw it work. Not for everyone, I'm sure; but something to consider?

 

If these issues have been covered in your earlier threads, I apologize in advance.

[distancia]

A couple of questions: first, is she interested in math, or in a career that will rely on or utilize math? If she isn't, what pressing reason does she have for mastery over something she may never use again? A very bright child may focus on areas of interest while finding no purpose for others: it's not so much laziness as intensity and precision of intellectual focus.

 

Second, how much practice has she had with scientific notation and the other things you mentioned, recently?

 

The big problem I have is this: her saying to me "I already know this stuff! Why do I have to learn it again?" When, in fact, she doesn't know it all! And she won't tell me what she does and doesn't know, because, according to her, she knows it all!

 

She did want to be a marine biologist but the math is just too big a deterrent. For that matter, anything that doesn't come easily or naturally is too much for her and she is easily bored (or turned off). Now she wants to be a gringa telenovela star but she argues with me over her Spanish, if I make her go one second over 45 minutes, she resists.

 

About scientific notation and the other concepts: she THOUGHT she had learned them correctly. She THOUGHT she had learned how to divide fractions. She THOUGHT she knew how to do square roots. But either she had learned the wrong method or she never learned at all.

 

So, 50% of me says ah, why bother to bend over backwards for her, just fill in the gaps s best I can. Yet the other 50% of me says that this is a blessing in disguise, a chance for her to build a solid--not difficult, but solid--foundation and do it right.

[flmochamom]

What about the Teaching Co.'s math series?

 

You could dd start with the High School Basic Math course. Perhaps she will respond differently to a highly engaging teacher. Or what about it Math, Philosophy and the Real World, or the Joy of Math, or even the Joy of Thinking. Some libraries carry the DVDs, and all of the dvds go on sale from time to time, so don't be alarmed by the non-sale price.

 

Your dd may simply be bored to tears with her previous math books, as well as the way in which it has been taught. She may not realize that math can be relevant to her life, exciting, and hopefully, something worth learning.

 

It may be easier for her to go back and "learn" this material if she sees the need to learn it other than "because you have to".

 

Another option, have her try watching open courseware classes from places like MIT or Stanford -- these are free, college level courses -- and pick something really exciting. Once your dd is engaged and interested, it will be relatively easy to go back and learn the facts.

[EKS]

Frankly, at 17 there really isn't much you can do. I'd consider what choices to offer her, for example finishing TT and getting whatever grade she gets, moving to another program, or starting back in middle school math. Perhaps she would do well with ALEKS to get her up to speed. But, really, the problems she's having with math at this point are her own and she will be the one who lives with the consequences.