Famous Men Series- What's the difference between..

[Guest aquiverfull]

Greenleaf version and MP version? I see they are by the same author, so I was curious about this. Thanks!

[Dawn E]

I've been researching this myself and so far what I've found out is the MP versions have been updated a bit, put into a two column format and have color illustrations and maps added. I have the Greenleaf version of Famous Men of Rome, but I'm seriously considering purchasing the MP version to use with MP Intro to Classical Studies next year.

[Orthodox6]

MP texts include numerous illustrations, very "Western" style (bulging Renaissance muscles) and with very lurid colours. Not an art style that appeals to us, but definitely attention-grabbing.

 

The MP coursework is far more challenging than the Greenleaf. Greenleaf study questions lend themselves to discussion, whereas MP's seem better for written work (then evaluated and discussed).

 

I used Greenleaf with my oldest two (now in college), and use MP with my DD (5th grade).

[karensk]

It's mostly a comparison of the accompanying guides, but includes the books, too.

 

I've had the complete Greenleaf set of FMoG: the book FMoG, the Greenleaf Guide to FMoG, and the accompanying timeline. Last summer, when I saw Memoria Press's FMoG at a h/s conference with it's rich, color illustrations and heavy-stock paper, I bought theirs and sold the Greenleaf one (book only).

 

I don't have the MP teacher/student books, but my guess is that the format is similar to the MP D'Aulaires teacher/student books, which ds10 is using this year. In the D'Aulaires student workbook, each lesson has a set of vocabulary words, comprehension questions, and a bit of mapwork. There are a few more discussion questions at the end, too. The teacher's guide is mostly a copy of the student book with the answers filled in. It also has tests and pronunciation guide. From what I've read on MP's website and from using their D'Aulaires, I think the comprehension questions would mostly be recalling events from the stories.

 

The Greenleaf FMoG Guide was designed, I think, with different goals in mind. What it says at the beginning of their guide:

 

"Our goals for the study of history are these:

1. That our students will see that God is involved in all history....

2. That when our students begin to study history in advanced courses they will not be starting from scratch, but will be building on a well-laid foundation...."

 

The Greenleaf Guide has a section on the geography of Greece, but no maps...you'd have to get your own. Most chapters have:

 

• a bank of vocabulary words (but no definitions)
  
• list of people and places, w/pronunciation
  
• brief background information
  
• 3 to 5 discussion questions (no answers, though)
  

 

And some chapters have suggestions for further reading, e.g., the Landmark book Alexander the Great.

 

Your goals will determine which teacher's guide is better for you. The MP one will provide all the answers and maps, making it extremely convenient. But I believe the Greenleaf guide has more thought-provoking questions from a Christian worldview, compared to the mostly recall-type questions that I think would be in MP's.

 

For our situation, since ds10 is already doing MP's D'Aulaires, I thought the MP FMoG added on to that would make too much busywork. We just use the MP FMoG with the Greenleaf guide to read & discuss only.

 

HTH!

 

BTW, there's a free online version at The Baldwin Project, in case you're interested. My guess is that this is the original version. Both the Greenleaf and MP versions have been edited in order to update the language. Based on a very brief comparison, the Memoria Press version seems slightly more edited/updated to me.

 

The MP version that I have has full-color illustrations, which I like; I've seen some older versions that are black-and-white.

[Orthodox6]

Karen, you enhanced well what I was trying to say -- i.e. that MP relies more on "recall" and Greenleaf poses discussion questions designed to reinforce their worldview. Both are good approaches; choice depends on family/teaching goals. This may be why I now prefer MP. It is more like a "secular" program, upon which I can graft our religion's teachings.

 

Thank you for posting your earlier, thoughtful analysis !

 

The MP coursework is far more challenging than the Greenleaf. Greenleaf study questions lend themselves to discussion, whereas MP's seem better for written work (then evaluated and discussed).

 

[Guest aquiverfull]

Thank you all, that is very helpful! :)

[Capt_Uhura]

Do you all use the FM series as full year courses? Are the MP guides secular? What about the Greenleaf guides?

 

thanks,

Capt_Uhura

[abrightmom]

how the Famous Men series fits into the overall curriculum plan? Is it studied alongside other history (i.e. SOTW or . . . )? I keep referring back to it on the MP website and it's very appealing. I just don't have enough experience to see where it fits in. :D

 

Thanks.

[karensk]

The Greenleaf Guide to FMoG is not secular. I'm not sure about MP's, though the company might be Catholic.

 

Depending on the grade, the guides could be used with the Famous Men series as the main history text/spine. I believe some schools do that, too. Or, the books could simply be used as read-alouds or readers to accompany your main history text, e.g. SOTW. The MP guides have a lot of work....you could adapt it to various grade levels by slowing down the pace, etc. I probably wouldn't use it with any younger than 4th grade. We did the MP guide to D'Aulaires Greek Myths spread out over the 5th grade year and it was just right for us. I guess it all depends on what else you have going on, workload-wise.

 

HTH!

[Capt_Uhura]

Yes, it does. THank you!

[Blossom'sGirl]

Just going to add that we have been listening to them through Librovox. My voice has been messed up for several weeks and this really helps. We have been just listening to the Famous Men of Greece, but when we get to Rome I want to try the Greenleaf guide I picked up used.

 

My only problem with Librovox is that some of the readers accents are challenging to follow.

[dragons in the flower bed]

You could use it as a supplement to SOTW or as a stand-alone program.

 

Greenleaf Press, the publisher who originally discovered these wonderful old books and who is largely responsible for bringing Charlotte Mason methods to the homeschooling movement, says in their catalog that the average duration of a Famous Men unit is fifteen weeks, or a little less than half a school year.

 

I prefer the Greenleaf Press books because

 

• it disturbs me that a publisher would reprint for the same purpose (history) to the same audience (homeschoolers) books that another publisher popularized
  
• the Greenleaf Guides coordinate six or seven living books and one or two activity ideas, the perfect ration of supplement:spine for me
  
• the Memoria Press guides ask for regurgitated facts from the children but the Greenleaf Guides reflect the CM emphasis on feeding children ideas
  
• the Greenleaf Press guides assign the parents discussion questions, whereas the Memoria Press guides assign the children workbook questions
  
• Greenleaf Press' guides were written by parents as they homeschooled, by career homeschoolers who raised all of their kids entirely and exclusively in homeschool setting, but Memoria Press' guides were written by classroom teachers with classical schools in mind
  

 

[elfinbaby]

This is an excellent thread. I have Greenleaf guides and books only b/c they were cheap. I didn't know the difference. I always wondered what I was missing so I ordered MP's Mythology book and guide. I agree with the previous posters assessment of the difference. It's accurate according to the materials I have. I did get to go through a FM of Rome recently just to compare it w/my Greenleaf. The difference was in the "pretty" not the content.

[Orthodox6]

MP is Protestant orientation.

 

I accept that we all have different teaching preferences. Way to go, homeschooling ! Nonetheless, I am uncomfortable with the post that presents the MP coursework so negatively. The base texts are public domain documents, so appropriately may be "tailored" by anyone who so wishes. That Greenleaf entered the marketplace first does not preclude a worthwhile competing product entering later.

 

CM methods are wonderful ! I really like that teaching style. As an "eclectic" type, however, I include a variety of teaching methods.

 

What some call "spit-back" learning, occupies a valid position in education. College students, world-over, have to read, memorize facts, dig out underlying (and overt) connections amongst materials, and be able to organize this information into their memories for later use, whether for an exam, or for a worthwhile classroom (or informal, amongst peers) discussion. At the elementary school level, "workbook questions" are a good technique for encouraging the student to marshal his/her thoughts succinctly and to express them clearly. Of course I could not support a solid "diet" of only worktext questions ! I just won't sneer at their carefully selected use.

 

Some of the Greenleaf discussion questions are excellent. The "slant" does not fit all Christians, though. I had to change things on the fly all the time. The Old Testament course, in fact, I had to toss completely because it was incompatible with our religion. Accordingly, Memoria Press provides a high-quality alternative.

 

I also think it sad to exalt homeschooling parents wholesale above classroom teachers. Good teachers from all walks of education-life deserve our support ! If I have misunderstood your observation there, then please disregard what I wrote in this paragraph. As everything preceding the point (about authorship) was negative, I automatically interpreted that point as negative, also.

 

 

 

The Greenleaf Guide to FMoG is not secular. I'm not sure about MP's, though the company might be Catholic.

 

 

HTH!

Edited February 24, 2010 by Orthodox6