What do you think a great education involves?

[Luanne]

I know this is a very broad question so I will throw some questions out here to give you an idea of what I am looking for.

 

Does it involved higher levels maths, sciences, etc? If so, to what level? What subjects are important? Can substitutions be made?

 

Does it involve in-depth literature readings (including analysis, etc)?

 

Can you achieve a great education for your child even if they don't seem capable of some higher level subjects (particularly if one of these is math)? If the student studied say English, literature, and history more in-depth than science and math, is that ok?

 

I know the ability to write well is important. What types of writing are important? My daughter likes to write creatively, but isn't very good at research type writing. How can I help her in this area and how important it is?

 

I'm not sure my post is very clear. Feel free to ask me any questions you have regarding what I am asking. Also feel free to share what is working with your student ... particularly if they are having difficulties in one area like math (like my daughter is).

 

Thanks.

[lllll]

..

[Luanne]

How old is your dd?

 

Due to a lot of changes and challenges in our lives, she is still working on 9th grade and we really haven't got a schedule for that down even.

[jibaker103]

I think what is considered a great education varies widely depending on the parent. I've seen from hardly doing anything to what I call overkill. It's important to make sure your kid has a great foundation to be able to function in the world, academically survive college, and still be a kid while I achieving all of this!

 

It sounds like your daughter may be having some issues in some subjects. I think the first step is to decide if you will cram in what she needs in the time she has left before turning 18 or will you take the extra time she needs and graduate her later. Secondly will she continue on with higher education? If so will it be college or university? Answering these questions will shape how long you take and what you will focus on.

 

For my son, who is in 8th grade and struggles tremendously in math (he tested at 4th grade level last year), I have decided to homeshool year round and go at his pace. Fortunately I have a 4-5 year window to work with. It sounds like you might not have that luxury.

[HSHS]

I think the writing element depends on what you see your daughter doing after high school. Will she go to college or into a career that she'll need to write certain types of papers a lot? I think writing just for the sake of writing is pointless so it should be linked to their other subjects.

 

The same goes for being heavier in lit, history, etc rather than math & science. It depends where you see her going in life & what skills she would need for that.

 

My daughter is undecided on what she wants to do but it could involve a potentially science-y area despite the fact that she has difficulty with it so we're trying to get the basics of bio, chem & physics down first then we can go back and get further in depth if we have time which I think we will.

 

Excuse any typos, errors & the general disorganization of this. I'm tired. :D

[lllll]

..

Edited March 23, 2013 by 3kt68

[Jane in NC]

In my opinion, a great education allows one to be a participant in the Great Conversation, whether that "conversation" occurs in an academic setting, at a dining room table or by simply reading (and understanding) the news of the day in the New York Times. (Those unfamiliar with the term "Great Conversation" may be interested in Adler's quote on authors of the Great Books: "What binds the authors together in an intellectual community is the great conversation in which they are engaged. In the works that come later in the sequence of years, we find authors listening to what their predecessors have had to say about this idea or that, this topic or that. They not only harken to the thought of their predecessors, they also respond to it by commenting on it in a variety of ways.")

 

Thus a great education has a foundation in history. This is not only the history of events, but in great literature of the ages. The great thinkers of the past did not view humanities and science as a dichotomy as many do today. Some may argue that the need for science education is greater in today's technological age. To me, science is part of the human process. We are all curious beings. We want to know what is in the sky, the sea and in the soil. Figuring out how things work is something we do as preschoolers.

 

This leads me to recall a conversation that I once had with a high school biology teacher from one of the NC's prestigious private high schools. We talked about content changes in biology education during his lifetime, but also changes that he has seen in students. He made an interesting observation that has remained with me. He noted that while students in the past were required to take fewer formal science courses at the high school level, they often knew more than modern students who may take four or five science classes in high school. How is that? Students entering a beginning biology class in high school today often lack a body of knowledge based on observation. They have not spent hours lying on their bellies in backyards watching bees and ants. They do not walk along the same path daily to see the seasonal changes, to witness migratory birds or butterflies, falling meteors, or snowflake crystals. In short, they know more about the Amazon rain forest than they do about their own ecosystems!

 

The point is that a great education begins by understanding one's own world, including one's backyard and community. Maria Montessori wrote some interesting things about how children learn where they fit in their families, their schools, their larger world. A great education allows a child to become an Interesting Person who can contribute to their communities.

 

A great education exposes students to different cultures. Ideally a student should spend a number of years learning a second language, also learning an appreciation for the culture that uses that language.

 

A great education does not necessarily create Jeopardy or Trivial Pursuit winners. Emphasis should be on analysis and writing skills, not fill in the blanks workbook facts.

 

I also believe that a great education teaches a certain element of self sufficiency, be it the ability to figure out mass transit in a foreign city where one does not speak the language or the ability to cook nutritious foods from scratch. Open mindedness should also come with a great education. Not everyone has the opportunity to hear jazz or opera, but when they do, they should go with an open mind and a sense of appreciation for the art form. (Of course, those of you with literal children like mine may be chuckling at this. My son just did not "get" the modern dance performance he saw last fall, but I am so glad that I exposed him to something that pushed his mind a bit.)

 

Using the WTM as a guide has certainly worked well for my family. I believe that my son has had at least a pretty good education by following many of the curricular suggestions within the book.

 

Have I gone beyond that which the OP asked?

 

Jane

[Nan in Mass]

Luanne might want to keep in mind that sometimes the great is the enemy of the good, and that the good is pretty good LOL. Often it is better to quickly decide on something that looks adequate and get it going, and then, while that is underway, mull over how to alter it so as to improve it. Children grow up fast and usually need this approach.

 

But she asked about great, and I like your answer very much.

 

I think a great education both equips and motivates the student to make great contributions to their community and the world.

 

I think great requires just the right mixture of rigorous foundation laying and creativity nurturing for that particular person, the right combination of discipline and freedom. I think great requires opportunities in which to practise being great. I think great requires just the right mixture of the tolerence and protection of single-mindedness, and exposure to vast quantities of varied experiences so the person has material with which to create, a sense of the many possibilities, and the judgement to know what might be workable in a given situation.

 

Unfortunately, it doesn't boil down to a list of textbooks. I don't think schools can do the whole job themselves. I think they can supply some of the elements, but that non-homeschooled children who aquire a great education do so in a large part outside of school. I think this is something that parents can encourage and help a child to do, but that mostly children have to want for themselves and single-mindedly pursue. I don't think they necessarily have to begin with a vision of where they want to end up; I think they can get there by hopping from one interesting thing to the next. I think it takes great quantities of energy, but not necessarily great effort if the child is pursuing a passion. I think the child needs to be allowed not to spend energy doing other things. Great people may have the energy to spend on many different things, but most of us do not. I think that if you want a great education for your child, picking role models and examples is helpful, both for the child and for the parents. I also think it helps to narrow down the education a bit. I don't think it is necessary to do every subject at a very high level. It seems as though when you learn to think in one subject, you can apply that thinking ability to other subjects.

 

I think a great education in our society is easier to aquire if one has good academic skills because they make self-education easier, speed up the process of learning something, and allow one a choice of how to learn something, but I think a great education contains more than just academic skills. As I said at the beginning, I think a great education both equips and motivates the student to make great contributions to his community and the world.

 

And that is probably all most unhelpful GRIN.

-Nan

Edited January 23, 2010 by Nan in Mass

[Ester Maria]

Does it involved higher levels maths, sciences, etc? If so, to what level? What subjects are important? Can substitutions be made?

This is a veeery subjective question.

I have always been more interested in languages and humanities as a student (even though the school I attended had a quite strong scientific component as well), but my husband is a scientist. We often come to very different conclusions as to what constitutes "basic" and "advanced" in sciences and maths.

 

For example, I am okay with something along the lines of Pre-Calculus being the "final" maths, provided you have a student of average intelligence who doesn't intend to pursue a career specifically in sciences or somewhere else where they might need higher maths. Everything before, Pre-Calculus level materials included, I would consider somewhat of a "basic maths literacy" for an educated person. I would still try to influence the above-average learner to take higher maths even if they don't plan a career in which they need it, but I wouldn't consider it a terrible loss if they didn't do it.

My husband, on the other hand, considers me to have a very low criteria in this aspect. From his perspective, Calculus and at least basic Statistics are fundamental parts of the "basic maths literacy", just as is some "basic" financial maths (which is in my opinion not basic AT ALL), for a person of average intelligence and he would consider it a loss if our children did not complete "at least" that level of maths in their education. I consider it slightly nuts, but then again, he considers my criteria in some other subjects nuts.

 

Same with sciences, I'm really okay with familiarity with most of the high level content in, say, Physics (I'm talking about general and specific relativity, and basics of quantum theory and modern physics, which in my opinion people should be familiar with, but not necessarily know the maths behind it), he's not. He thinks much more than initial concepts should be thoroughly understood, and with a lot more maths included, by an educated person. Same with Chemistry or Biology - while we both agree SOME level of familiarity with organic chemistry or genetics IS needed by an educated person, we disagree about the extent and the depth.

 

As a professional in this field, he sees a lot more things to be "basic" than I do. Hard to say who is "right" here.

Does it involve in-depth literature readings (including analysis, etc)?

Again, I'm the "nuts" one here from my husband's perspective. I think in-depth Literature readings are a must for a good education, he agrees, but we disagree about the quantity and, to lesser extent, about the choice itself.

 

So while I may consider that a chronological study of one's national literature, in addition to the masterpieces of literature of other nations which belong to the same cultural circle, is an absolute must for any average educated person, and consider that to consist minimally of a dozen works a year (in addition to excerpts from other works), he would be willing to halve the number of full books read. Though he'd still agree on a chronology, on analysis, and on theory. It's just the extent he disagrees with.

Can you achieve a great education for your child even if they don't seem capable of some higher level subjects (particularly if one of these is math)? If the student studied say English, literature, and history more in-depth than science and math, is that ok?

The vast majority of people do have indeed a field or two they're not quite okay with, and that's normal. But should it mean that a good education is something as flexible to indulge whatever you're okay with and ignore what you're not?

 

Honestly, I'm not sure everything is debatable here. While we can surely cut off some parts in a subject or too without causing that much damage to the whole system (only to the "adjoining" subjects), if we cut off a bit too much of one, or start cutting off other parts too, it destabilizes the whole system.

It really depends on what concretely you have in mind.

I know the ability to write well is important. What types of writing are important? My daughter likes to write creatively, but isn't very good at research type writing. How can I help her in this area and how important it is?

Creative writing is almost irrelevant here, it's a free time skill that some kids have, some don't, but it's not a must, it's comparable to drawing or playing an instrument. You won't end up "uneducated" if you don't practice specific art, but you will if you're unfamiliar with some basic historical context of that art, some typical and famous works and styles, etc.

 

What is a must in writing is structured writing, organization of arguments and discussion, in descriptive, interpretative and argumentative writing. That's basically where the focus should be, it kind of encompasses different kinds of writing in itself, but those are the ones that you're likely to use to communicate your message or present some opinions.

[Luanne]

I am going to cut and paste your responses and print them off to read over.

 

Thanks again! You have been MOST helpful!