Language consistency

[Rosie_0801]

So I was just reading this website: http://www.biculturalfamily.org/ and came across the following paragraph:

Be consistent in your linguistic behavior with your child, but remember that there are many different ways of being consistent: one parent, one language; a holiday language and a round-the-year language; a weekday language and a Sunday language; the first one to speak chooses the language; everyone speaking their preferred language.

 

How do you guys classify your "when and where?" Our other language is Auslan, and it is natural for dh and I to switch from English when it is too noisy for him to hear. "Too noisy" isn't very clear cut like the examples from the above paragraph though.

 

I'm not sure what info I'm really looking for, I guess. Dd is 2 and hadn't made really any progression in either language for months and months, until probably the last week. She's been focussing on physical skills, like couch climbing :lol: Now she seems to be moving back to language again. I didn't think it would be that hard teaching a child to sign, but it's pretty well impossible when they won't look at you long enough to raise your hands! Anyway, last night she was sitting down with "Brown Bear, Brown Bear" and 'reading' it aloud in English. Her very enthusiastic parents joined in and added Auslan, and she happily added it in too. I used to read and sign this book to her about a year ago, until she lost interest. Now it seems she has remembered most of it (the animals, not the colours.) :) That's nice to know, eh?

 

Not really sure what I'm after. Just conversation, I guess :)

 

Rosie

[specialmama]

My sisters speak french in their home when it is just them, but when they are out or company comes over, they speak english. The kids did fine, especially after about age 4. English is way easier to pick up, so they wanted to speak as much french as possible in the formative years.

 

Is there any way you and your dh could use primarily Auslan when you're home? Unless company is there, of course. The noisy part seems fine as well, I mean, as long as you're consistent with your consistency. :lol: I guess what I mean is, are you frequently in noisy situations? Especially for a child 0-4 I'd want as much exposure as possible. Hey, you'll have an excuse to get out to noisy places more regularly: the symphony, the ball games, rock concerts... just think of the field trips you could have! All under the thick cloak of clever language consistency!

 

P.S.: Btw, Brown Bear, Brown Bear was one of my dd's fave books!

Edited October 9, 2009 by specialmama

[Nan in Mass]

Have you signed up for the email list? I am on it and I am astounded at the variety of patterns of consistency. It is a nice list.

-Nan

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Our 'consistent' approach is that our house is French only.

So how did I end up with bilingual kids? I'm not entirely sure ,to be the truth. Just last night, I was telling my DH how surprised I am at DD9's bilingualism. She has almost no English immersion outside the home. DS11 is in many activities that require English. So he's set, he's even getting bilingual in music ;-) DD however is always in French in her chosen activities, except a few hours a day during a few weeks of summer time.

 

What we do, however, is read aloud. Books are read in whatever language we get them in. English or French. Our discussions are always in French, but going with Sonlight has really made her learn English. I'll be adding books in Spanish soon.

 

 

Edited for typo

Edited October 10, 2009 by CleoQc

[Rosie_0801]

Is there any way you and your dh could use primarily Auslan when you're home?

 

Oh sure, we could. Dh, the deaf one, could probably sign with the kids too, but doesn't. Unfortunately it's not like a spoken language which will go in their ears whether they make an effort or not. The kid has to actually look. Dd isn't a very conversational type, I'm not sure if that's personality or just age, so she's not in the least bit motivated to pay any attention. Some kids will keep an eye open in case they miss out on something, but Zia isn't one of those kids, or not yet anyway.

 

Which email list, Nan? From that site? Didn't realise there was one! Guess I could mosey on back there and check it out, huh? Good suggestion, hehehe.

 

The closest Auslan playgroup is 2 hours away and funnily enough, there's no Auslan literature, heheh. I guess I'll just have to keep plugging away and get my hands up quick smart when they look my way!

 

Rosie

[Sahamamama]

Hi, Rosie!

 

http://www.signingtime.com/

 

(I know, it's not Auslan, it's ASL, but maybe there is some overlap?)

 

I don't know if you've already seen these, or even if you can get them in Australia, but they are well-worth looking into, IMO. Our 3 year old twins are learning quite a bit of ASL from these DVDs, and they are the ones who initiate using signs. The DVDs are professionally done, with great songs and video content, and they teach just about the right amount of signs for each DVD. We borrow them from our library, but I just thought I'd give you the heads-up on these, in case you could find them where you are.

 

No one in our family has difficulty hearing, we just enjoy signing -- plus, my mom used to teach the deaf and is able to teach my children many more signs than what I can teach them. I grew up in a church that had a signing congregation, and it was great to learn and participate in signing along with them. Have you looked around for a signing community? Is there a church or social group of any kind that perhaps uses signing as the primary form of communication? Could you locate a school for the deaf/hearing impaired and inquire if there is a teacher who would be able to interact with your family from time to time? Perhaps there are retired teachers who know sign language and would be able to use this with your daughter. If my mom was in Australia, she would sign with her! ;)

 

I'm just shooting out ideas: Anything to make the language something that is more natural, rather than a forced "teaching activity," and anything that shows her that other people use this language, too! Could you go to sports events at a local school for the deaf, or find out when a team will be in your area? She needs to see more signing in action! :D

Edited October 10, 2009 by Sahamamama
I realize that ASL and Auslan are probably somewhat different

[Rosie_0801]

There isn't a deaf community here in our town, not with kids of a suitable age. I think I might need to wait a few months until she becomes more interested in focusing. It wouldn't help to have another signer come here, since she would be no more interested in "listening" to them than to me, probably less! Thanks for thinking of the Signing Time vids, but we have our own in Auslan :) I put them on occasionally, but she doesn't like them so much. I think the content is above her level. It's more preK aged stuff, and she's only 2. But since you mentioned it, I will have a look at the Auslan resource site and see if there is anything new out for younger kids.

 

FYI, Auslan borrows a lot from ASL, but the languages are not related.

 

:)

Rosie

[Rosie_0801]

Y'know. I think you've helped me chew through the issue. She's communicative, definitely, and can certainly get her point across; but she's not conversational. She isn't progressing much in either language because she really doesn't care what anyone has to say. Is this just an age thing, because she's 2 and is too busy pulling clothes out of drawers? Or a personality thing? Or am I supposed to figure out some way of teaching her to be interested in conversation? She gives me some hooks to work with in English, but it's a bit harder to make much of those teaching moments in Auslan. She'll listen to a full sentence, or if she isn't, I'll say it anyway :) but will only look at me long enough for one sign, most of the time, definitely not a full sentence.

 

Rosie

 

Edit: Hey! There is a new product out, and it's just the sort of thing I was just lamenting the lack of! A visual dictionary. Yay!! Sahamamamma, you are a brilliant woman!

Edited October 11, 2009 by Rosie_0801

[Ibbygirl]

Y'know. I think you've helped me chew through the issue. She's communicative, definitely, and can certainly get her point across; but she's not conversational. She isn't progressing much in either language because she really doesn't care what anyone has to say. Is this just an age thing, because she's 2 and is too busy pulling clothes out of drawers? Or a personality thing? Or am I supposed to figure out some way of teaching her to be interested in conversation? She gives me some hooks to work with in English, but it's a bit harder to make much of those teaching moments in Auslan. She'll listen to a full sentence, or if she isn't, I'll say it anyway :) but will only look at me long enough for one sign, most of the time, definitely not a full sentence.

 

Rosie

 

Edit: Hey! There is a new product out, and it's just the sort of thing I was just lamenting the lack of! A visual dictionary. Yay!! Sahamamamma, you are a brilliant woman!

 

I think it's an age thing. 2 years olds are interested in exploring the world around them moreso than the world within them ie. language and thought. And remember that kids are like sponges too. You'd be surprised at how much they actually pick up when you think they're not even paying attention. What I did with my dd when she was 2 was I just observed what it was she was fascinated with and I went along and "discovered" it with her and it was easy to add the language in there. "oh, you like the horse. It's a nice horse. It has a pretty brown mane" etc etc. Just my humble 2 cents for whatever they're worth. :)

[Rosie_0801]

I think it's an age thing. 2 years olds are interested in exploring the world around them moreso than the world within them ie. language and thought. And remember that kids are like sponges too. You'd be surprised at how much they actually pick up when you think they're not even paying attention. What I did with my dd when she was 2 was I just observed what it was she was fascinated with and I went along and "discovered" it with her and it was easy to add the language in there. "oh, you like the horse. It's a nice horse. It has a pretty brown mane" etc etc. Just my humble 2 cents for whatever they're worth. :)

Yeah, I do those things too, in English, and try in Auslan. I guess I'll just have to keep at it and eventually she'll take more interest in the Auslan too. It is funny what they pick up, you never know until they start coming out with it. I had an audiobook on the other week that I was sure she wasn't listening to, since she was running in and out of the room. Then they said "horse" and she said "horse" too. So obviously she was!

 

:)

Rosie

[Ibbygirl]

Yeah, I do those things too, in English, and try in Auslan. I guess I'll just have to keep at it and eventually she'll take more interest in the Auslan too. It is funny what they pick up, you never know until they start coming out with it. I had an audiobook on the other week that I was sure she wasn't listening to, since she was running in and out of the room. Then they said "horse" and she said "horse" too. So obviously she was!

 

:)

Rosie

 

lol IIRC with Gabi it wasn't until she was 3 that she really started getting interested in stories. That's when she really wanted to sit down and have me read to her. We read a whole stack of books each day. And I would hold my finger under each word while I read it. In her case, the language really took off when the reading did. She wanted to learn how to read and so I started teaching her and as she learned she increased dramatically in her language skills. For her being able to see it and understand it made all of the difference. :)

[Nan in Mass]

My children weren't really talking much until they were three. At two, they were just beginning. Mine, however, even though they weren't talking, were hearing English constantly. You said your problem is that your daughter isn't hearing Auslan in the background - could you change that by doubling up and signing everything you say? At that age, I tended to make them look at me before I told them to do anything (so I knew they were listening). You could say, "Look at me, honey." And then you could both sign and say your message. Do they make subtitles in sign language? I know they make subtitles (superior ones - we always set videos to them when my husband is listening and we've set the video to French), but maybe they make ones where there is a box in the corner (or something) with people signing? If so, I think I would make a rule for myself that all video media had no sound. That would give her extra input, too.

 

The list is at biling_fam@nethelp I'll look for the directions for subscribing and try to find them for you.

 

-Nan

[Rosie_0801]

My children weren't really talking much until they were three. At two, they were just beginning.

Mm. I'm thinking it's just an age thing with this one. It seems there are two kinds of kids, the verbal ones and the independent ones, and mine is an independent one!

 

You said your problem is that your daughter isn't hearing Auslan in the background - could you change that by doubling up and signing everything you say?

No. It's very hard to sign with a hand full of wiggly baby for starters. Secondly, signing and speaking at the same time actually impairs learning. I do sometimes sign then repeat in English, but it depends whether she is watching or not. I'm not the most interesting thing around ;)

 

Do they make subtitles in sign language? I know they make subtitles (superior ones - we always set videos to them when my husband is listening and we've set the video to French), but maybe they make ones where there is a box in the corner (or something) with people signing? If so, I think I would make a rule for myself that all video media had no sound. That would give her extra input, too.

The Deaf community would die of happiness if we had that sort of thing here. :)

 

Thanks for your thoughts. I am going to buy the new dvd out, it's a visual dictionary and I think it is much more suited to a toddler than the story translations they market towards toddlers. https://bilby.net/Sign/Products/MarieKerwin.asp Like most kids, dd will focus on the idiot box much longer than on me, so I think that might help. Given time she will want to talk about the dvd but I guess these things can't be rushed.

 

:)

Rosie

[Sahamamama]

Edit: Hey! There is a new product out, and it's just the sort of thing I was just lamenting the lack of! A visual dictionary. Yay!! Sahamamamma, you are a brilliant woman!

 

Thanks, Rosie. :blushing: I'll have to tell my husband you said so! At the moment, he would agree with you, because he just told me I baked the best apple pie he's ever tasted! He's eating his pie.... Yes, he agrees with you, it's unanimous, I am brilliant! :D I am glad you found a resource to use with your daughter.

 

FWIW, when my twins were just turned two, I worried about their language acquisition/usage. I thought they would never talk. They did talk, now that I look back on it, but since my firstborn spoke in complete, articulate sentences at that age, I was full of angst!

 

Now, almost a year later, I can honestly say that the worry was beside the point. They TALK ALL DAY LONG, every day, and sometimes I think I am going to lose my mind! There is just this little switch, or something, that goes off and then they chatter. Don't worry this age away. Pick her up and snuggle, or get down on the floor and play! She'll get there in time. HTH!

 

Happy signing!

[Nan in Mass]

You would need DVDs that were dubbed, just like they are dubbed for other languages, but visually with a box rather than in audio. I think you should write to Disney and point out this need to them. They are big enough to have the resources to do it. Who knows? Maybe they would be willing to do it for their children's classics.

-Nan

[Rosie_0801]

Nan, I can't think of any reason why Disney would provide Auslan subtitles on their movies. The market would be *very* small and they would not make any money. I don't think you are understanding that I live in Australia and use Auslan- Australian Sign Language. I'm sure it would be wonderful for the American Deaf community if they were to dub for ASL, but that isn't my fight.

 

Rosie

[Nan in Mass]

I was thinking that they do make an effort to be inclusive and all, but perhaps you are right and it is too far a leap for a commercial company. I do understand that Auslan isn't ASL. Or maybe I have a scewed idea of the prevelence of sign language because the university I went to had translators at the front of many of my classes and there was a deaf dorm. Or something. Anyway, sorry. -Nan

Edited October 26, 2009 by Nan in Mass
typo

[Rosie_0801]

I was thinking that they do make an effort to be inclusive and all, but perhaps you are right and it is too far a leap for a commercial company.

 

I rekon there would be a market for ASL dubbed films, but you're right with the "too far a leap for a commercial company" bit! Anyway, dubbing in ASL would be crazily expensive. I do believe that Disney close caption all their films, which Warner Bros don't. We'll give them points for that.

 

Rosie