ritas Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I have used the WTM when my children were younger, and again, I'm considering it because it just makes sense/logical. My only problem and question is about literary analysis. For example, I will have a 7th and a 11th grader next school year. I love the idea of the great books, and Susan really did a nice job laying out the plan. But what exactly do you do (OK, this might seem a stupid question)??? Just the discussions with the student and the reflections on the student's part are enough??? Maybe I'm just thinking in a PS mode...that you need to have some kind of a worksheet or something to make this happen. Reading the WTM again makes me see that I'm wrong...but I need some ideas/advice how to be successful in this??? See, we have been using Sonlight for a several school years now, and even though we love the literature, and they do include literary analysis with instruction...we have been just rushing through everything and not understanding the true meaning of great literature. Also, Sonlight uses more "fun" books. How can I achieve success and love toward the great books with my children??? I really believe, that not quantity, but quality that matters. I bought the "American Literature" by James P. Stonebaugh (Understanding the Times Curriculum) for my 11th grader, however, I'm not completely satisfied with my choice. At this point, my son does not like reading at all, because Sonlight scheduled so much reading in their lesson plans.The first book in this curriculum is the "Religious Reflections" by Jonathan Edwards. How can I give this meaty, serious book into my son's hand...without more negative experiences? I do like better Susan's idea+list in the WTM, where you can pick and chose. Any idea or experience that you have about literary analysis would be greatly appreciated. I'm sorry that my post got so long!:confused: Take care and God bless, Rita Sukola Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jibaker103 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I have used the WTM when my children were younger, and again, I'm considering it because it just makes sense/logical. My only problem and question is about literary analysis. For example, I will have a 7th and a 11th grader next school year. I love the idea of the great books, and Susan really did a nice job laying out the plan. But what exactly do you do (OK, this might seem a stupid question)??? Just the discussions with the student and the reflections on the student's part are enough??? Maybe I'm just thinking in a PS mode...that you need to have some kind of a worksheet or something to make this happen. Reading the WTM again makes me see that I'm wrong...but I need some ideas/advice how to be successful in this???See, we have been using Sonlight for a several school years now, and even though we love the literature, and they do include literary analysis with instruction...we have been just rushing through everything and not understanding the true meaning of great literature. Also, Sonlight uses more "fun" books. How can I achieve success and love toward the great books with my children??? I really believe, that not quantity, but quality that matters. I bought the "American Literature" by James P. Stonebaugh (Understanding the Times Curriculum) for my 11th grader, however, I'm not completely satisfied with my choice. At this point, my son does not like reading at all, because Sonlight scheduled so much reading in their lesson plans.The first book in this curriculum is the "Religious Reflections" by Jonathan Edwards. How can I give this meaty, serious book into my son's hand...without more negative experiences? I do like better Susan's idea+list in the WTM, where you can pick and chose. Any idea or experience that you have about literary analysis would be greatly appreciated. I'm sorry that my post got so long!:confused: Take care and God bless, Rita Sukola I just speant a bunch of time on working this out for my ds13. Here is what I came up with based upon my ideas and some wonderful advice. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115583&highlight=%22literary+analysis%22 Let me know if you need clarification or more information. I'm happy to help any way I can. Jennifer Mother to Noah Age 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ritas Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) I did read through the whole post, and it is very informative. Thank you! My biggest question is: Where would my 11th grader fit into that plan??? I am either keeping the "Understanding the Times - American Literature" curriculum, or just use the WTM recomendations (which I like, yet I need help with the how's of literary analysis). I also looked into the Excellence in Literature products, specifically that deal with literary analysis (the first two courses), and I have to say that I liked them too. Also, my DS needs practice in writing essays...a lot!!! Maybe it was just the way Sonlight writing assignments were set up (excessive creative writing) combined with his lazy tendencies. We will use R&S "Communicating Effectively" - Book #1 next year, which covers nicely the argumentative essay process and basic paragraph construction. Would that be enough???Thanks for your input! Rita Sukola Edited July 22, 2009 by ritas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jibaker103 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I did read through the whole post, and it is very informative. Thank you! My biggest question is: Where would my 11th grader fit into that plan??? I am either keeping the "Understanding the Times - American Literature" curriculum, or just use the WTM recomendations (which I like, yet I need help with the how's of literary analysis). I also looked into the Excellence in Literature products, specifically that deal with literary analysis (the first two courses), and I have to say that I liked them too. Also, my DS needs practice in writing essays...a lot!!! Maybe it was just the way Sonlight writing assignments were set up (excessive creative writing) combined with his lazy tendencies. We will use R&S "Communicating Effectively" - Book #1 next year, which covers nicely the argumentative essay process and basic paragraph construction. Would that be enough???Thanks for your input! Rita Sukola For your 11th grader do The Elegant Essay the 1st semester and Windows to the World the 2nd semester. After that he should be able to pick up any book and follow the rules learned from those 2 classes on reading, annotating, discussing, and essay & analysis writing. You could always pick out a study guide like Progeny Press or one of the free ones to help you out if your nervous about it. Jennifer Mother to Noah Age 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennW in SoCal Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 First of all, you might want to start hanging out on the high school boards where we talk quite a bit about specific literature titles and programs. Second of all, let me give you my typical response to these types of questions. Get your hands on a copy of SWB's Well Educated Mind (WEM). It turned the light on for me on how to tackle literature for myself and with my kids. It gives you the tools you need for reading several genres, and the kinds of tools you can use on your own to dig into a work without relying on a study guide to tell you what you are supposed to be thinking about. Study guides are a great thing, though! There are a few on-line that are helpful - Sparknotes, Pink Monkey and a new one called Shmoop that I like (it is new and has fewer titles than the others). I personally don't use literature programs, though I made an exception for the Literary Lessons from Lord of the Rings. If your 11th grader likes those books, it is a great introduction to literary analysis, though the student worksheets are pretty inane. I liked the additional notes for each chapter found in the teacher's manual as well as the additional units. I usually pick works based on the interests of my kids, choosing some great books and some good books that people have recommended over the years. My oldest's American History/Lit year included To Kill a Mockingbird, Catcher in the Rye, Great Gatsby, Our Town, biographies of Moss Hart (a Broadway playwright) and Walt Disney. This was for a kid who doesn't like to read, but he made it through the 3 novels. The play and biographies were related to his interest in theater and all things Disney. As for writing. I've used some of the questions and tasks from the WEM, some of the essay prompts from the on-line study guides, but most essay topics come up in our discussions of a work. I liked the Lively Art of Writing which is a short book that focuses on how to write a good essay. My high schoolers write a literary essay about once a month (they also write other essays and papers for history and science). Don't feel you have to get through a dozen titles in a year, but focus on a few good books to get a feel for how to do literary analysis and formulate and essay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ritas Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 I actually own a copy of the WEM; I just need to make time to incorporate it into my schedule. I like Susan's ideas on how to read a book so much, and it makes perfect sense.It is just a new skill that needs time getting used to. I like the idea of picking just several books of interest a year, and really dig deep. I bought a Progeny Press study guide on "Uncle Tom's Cabin" last year, but it was just OK. Answering questions in writing was just boring for us. Maybe. we're too picky or too independent. That's why the WTM appeals to me, I just need to learn how to use it. Rita S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ritas Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 Just adding to my last post...now, the "Reading Strands" book looks interesting. Those of you who used it...what did you like about it? Is it written to the student or to the parents? If I already own the WEM, would that be necessary also? In what ways does it differ from the WEM? Thank you so much for all your help!!!:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jibaker103 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Just adding to my last post...now, the "Reading Strands" book looks interesting. Those of you who used it...what did you like about it? Is it written to the student or to the parents? If I already own the WEM, would that be necessary also? In what ways does it differ from the WEM? Thank you so much for all your help!!!:001_smile: Another suggestion is IEW's Teaching the Classics. The manual is geared toward the parent on how to teach their kids. It provides story charts, a ton of socratic questions, types of writing assignments, and information on structuring lessons. Jennifer Mother to Noah Age 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIch elle Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 looks really good! Join IEW families yahoo group to learn more about it. Also look at IEW Windows to the World. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangermom Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 SWB also has a couple of seminars on teaching literature to logic and rhetoric stage students--they have excellent suggestions for questions to ask and how to go about doing the analysis. I'd suggest you look through the CDs and order one or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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