hi_itsgwen Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I need help from all of you experienced hs geniuses... I had all of my curriculum purchased, and are on our second official day of hs'ing my 2nd and 5th graders. My kids are just coming out of public school, and I wanted to transition them over to the WTM/Charlotte Mason style of schooling. So I thought that FLL3 would be a decent place to introduce my dd to narration/dictation, etc., but it's just WAY too simple. Should I just stick with it, or switch to something else? We are covering stuff like the title of a book says it's name. She is giggling at me! :lol: Any ideas as to what I could do with her for LA this year? We are studying Ancients, if that is relative at all. Thanks! Gwen brand new HS Mama dd, 10 5th grader ds, 7 2nd grader dd, 18 mos. and our last little one is on the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna T. Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 We used FLL 3 in 4th grade and really enjoyed it. It was my son's favorite subject. I guess you have looked through the whole book? It does get much more complicated. It was my son's intro. to diagramming and I'm really glad we started with it. You may want to consider FLL 4. My understanding is that it reviews FLL 3 and is an appropriate starting point. We've now moved on to Rod & Staff 4 and it definately requires more of the student. I think it's the popular choice for a more demanding course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aready Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 [quote name=hi_itsgwen;1085734 My kids are just coming out of public school' date=' and I wanted to transition them over to the WTM/Charlotte Mason style of schooling. So I thought that FLL3 would be a decent place to introduce my dd to narration/dictation, etc., but it's just WAY too simple. Should I just stick with it, or switch to something else? We are covering stuff like the title of a book says it's name. She is giggling at me! :lol: [/quote] I have a 3rd grader that is coming out of PS too, and was wanting to use FLL also. I'm interested to hear what the "hive" says! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi_itsgwen Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 Thank you Donna T. anyone else...what do you think about a 5th grader using FLL3? She LOVES to write, and makes up and illustrates her own stories. So she thought I was joking when I asked her to write the title of the book and that's about it. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evergreen Academy Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I enjoy WTM/CM style homeschooling, and have had great sucess with Intermediate Language Lessons. It's a great little book (very reasonably priced) that provides lessons in narration, dictation, writing, outlining, picture study and gentle grammar. It's designed to be used in 4th through 6th grades, and my son will be using the last section this year for 6th. It may be a reasonable option for you to consider if you decide to go with something different. There are opportunities to make up stories based on paintings or poems and I sometimes have a child illustrate it as well. I haven't seem FLL3 so I can't comment there, but I thought I'd mention what works for us. Blessings, Aimee mom to 6 great kids ages 6-18, schooling grades 1, 3, 3 and 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oliveview Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 FLL is a grammar program that has some copy work and dictation in it. Writing With Ease (WWE) is primarily copy work, dictation, and narration. There are 4 levels of WWE, although I believe only the first two levels have workbooks. Of course there is the text of WWE that you could make your own sheets with. Also, there is FLL 4 if you think level 3 is too easy. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKDmom Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 (edited) I don't have any help for you. But at least she's giggling. :) I pulled my 2nd grade dd out of public school and tried to do FLL 1/2 with her. She spent a lot of time shouting at me, "I already know what a noun is! This is stupid!" I decided to try Growing with Grammar at that point. She didn't like that either b/c it is so dry. We are going with Sonlight for our curriculum this year, and their LA looks like it will be a better fit for us (we're 2 whole days into it ;) ) Edited July 21, 2009 by bonniebeth4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in VA Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I wouldn't do FLL 3 or 4 with a 5th grader. I find them awfully simple as well. What I would do is think about how you want to approach the whole of LA. Do you want a big grammar emphasis? Would you prefer grammar taught within the scope of writing? Do you want alot of memory work? Here are some options that would be age appropriate depending on what you are looking for. Writing Tales - this teaches writing, grammar, structure etc with a focus on writing. It can be done with or without a separate grammar program. Junior Analytical Grammar - this is the "younger" version of Analytical grammar. It's a short but effective coverage of basic grammar. It covers diagramming as well. It does not do any writing instruction. My ideal would be to pair this with Writing Tales. If you think she's respond well to memory work, then Shurley English is another option. It classifies sentences rather than diagrams but that's ok at this stage. The students learn jingles for grammar definitions. I prefer other writing programs so I'd just use it for grammar/usage. It would also work with Writing Tales (can you tell I like Writing Tales?) Does this help at all? Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmschooling Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 There is also a guide to go with this at Lost Classics Books and wookbooks to go with it through Living Books curriculum I believe. It seems gentle but is very challenging. You could pace it to finish it in 2 years easily. My plan is to get the guide and the workbook,...then you don't need the book itself, but it is available online for free through google books. Search "Emma Serl Intermediate Language Lessons". I enjoy WTM/CM style homeschooling, and have had great sucess with Intermediate Language Lessons. It's a great little book (very reasonably priced) that provides lessons in narration, dictation, writing, outlining, picture study and gentle grammar. It's designed to be used in 4th through 6th grades, and my son will be using the last section this year for 6th. It may be a reasonable option for you to consider if you decide to go with something different. There are opportunities to make up stories based on paintings or poems and I sometimes have a child illustrate it as well.I haven't seem FLL3 so I can't comment there, but I thought I'd mention what works for us. Blessings, Aimee mom to 6 great kids ages 6-18, schooling grades 1, 3, 3 and 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmschooling Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Our Mother Tongue might also fill the need... http://www.canonpress.org/shop/category.asp?catid=114 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hsmomto4 Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 We start R&S by 3rd grade and enjoy it greatly. I like that I don't have to have another writing program with it and that they start oral reports by 4th grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi_itsgwen Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 Thank you for the excellent recommendations! Here is the Emma Serl book Intermediate Language Lessons in case anyone else want to see it: http://books.google.com/books?id=JzIXAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA258&lpg=PA258&dq=free+Emma+Serl+Intermediate+Language+Lessons&source=bl&ots=RyuApV3WVQ&sig=lksCiQ46cDKjz2ag1ISvN0eTniI&hl=en&ei=dC9mSuquCMO3tweWkZH4Dw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4 Any other recommendations for me? Being new to the WTM/Charlotte Mason style of teaching...and honestly, to teaching in general, I am possibly not distinguishing between 'gentle' and 'too easy' :D Thanks so much! Gwen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Do you want your dd to learn diagramming? I know that FLL3 gets into diagramming sentences. Have you looked through the table of contents and chosen the lessons that you feel are appropriate for your dd? You don't have to do them all, you know. If you look through the book and feel that there is enough challenge for your dd in most of the lessons, I'd say stick with it and just skip the lessons that are way too easy. If most of it looks way too easy, you could peruse the TOC of FLL4 and see what you think of that. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi_itsgwen Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 I would say that my dd is of average ability in grammar (though she has not done sentence diagramming yet). We are remediateing phonetics in her spelling program this year. She's an avid writer, but needs instruction on organizing her thoughts/compositions. She learns best when she sees a valid application...so I think learning grammar with or through writing would be a great fit for her. So Rod & Staff is grammar only, or a combination program? Tell me more, please! :) Gwen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hsmomto4 Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 R&S teaches both grammar (including diagramming) and writing in their books. If she needs a review, just start with book 4 instead of 5 and let her work at her own pace. There is a lot of writing in the R&S books so if she enjoys writing she would enjoy them. I've used Abeka and LLATL as well and neither of them are as well thought out and planned as R&S. My oldest is in 11th grade so we have been through many of their books and she has a firm grasp on grammar and writing that most of her piers just do not have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in VA Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I would say that my dd is of average ability in grammar (though she has not done sentence diagramming yet). We are remediateing phonetics in her spelling program this year. She's an avid writer, but needs instruction on organizing her thoughts/compositions. She learns best when she sees a valid application...so I think learning grammar with or through writing would be a great fit for her. So Rod & Staff is grammar only, or a combination program? Tell me more, please! :) Gwen I would definately look into the classical approach to writing then. I recommended Writing Tales earlier which I find to be the more user friendly choice for the earlier years and then we use Classical Writing after that. It combines grammar and writing, gives students exercises in rewriting models, learning to organize their thoughts, seeing how using words in different ways affects the writing etc. My oldest is now into the Classical writing books that teach essays and she is really learning to build and defend a thesis, choose important points, stay on topic etc. As far as grammar goes - I can not stand Rod and Staff. My oldest did 3 years of it. It was torture to do and even though she did very well on the exercises and the tests, she didn't retain any of it. Analytical Grammar was what she used and has often been told she has a terrific grasp of grammar. She told an outside Latin class last year and her teach was amazed. Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siloam Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Junior Analytical Grammar - this is the "younger" version of Analytical grammar. It's a short but effective coverage of basic grammar. It covers diagramming as well. It does not do any writing instruction. My ideal would be to pair this with Writing Tales. Heather We love Junior Analytical Grammar here! Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim in SouthGa Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I would recommend Junior Analytical Grammar. My now 10 dd completed FLL 3 in 3rd grade with no problem, then went on to BJU 5 (FLL 4 was not out yet, and BJU 4 was too much review of what we covered in FLL 3). This year she will be using Junior Analytical Grammar and the Writing Trails series. My 13 ds also used JAG in 5th, and then moved on to AG. Shurley would be our 2nd choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thowell Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 http://ywp.nanowrimo.org/workbooks try this site for writing it is great!! It helps them write their own story and I will be using it as a time to correct grammar and spelling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi_itsgwen Posted July 23, 2009 Author Share Posted July 23, 2009 Okee-dokey...I really HUGELY appreciate all of the great suggestions and input! Here is the decision I have come to: I will thumb through and pick out review lessons from FLL 3, and we'll do those while we wait on the new stuff to arrive. Instead of dropping another $100+ on Writing Tails & Junior Analytical Grammar, I will go with the Intermediate Language Lessons + the teachers manual off of Amazon. The pair is less than $30 and in keeping with the style of education that I wanted to introduce this year, plus it's used for ages 9-12. So I should be able to get some good mileage off of it. I can remediate anything that it doesn't cover from my FLL3...I will just save the FLL3 workbook to use for my son next year. At the end of this year, I'll re-evaluate dd and more than likely, we'll go with the Writing Tales/AG option for next year (when I have a book budget again :) Thank you all again SO much for your input! It's been fun looking at the different options and hearing all of your success stories and ideas! Gwen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi_itsgwen Posted July 23, 2009 Author Share Posted July 23, 2009 http://ywp.nanowrimo.org/workbooks try this site for writing it is great!! It helps them write their own story and I will be using it as a time to correct grammar and spelling. This is really neat! Right up her alley. I may work this in this year. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Intermediate Language Lessons, by Serl, would be similar in flavor to FLL and is designed for 4-5 graders. It has a Charlotte Mason style of teaching, too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amtmcm Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) For Charlotte Mason style grammar/writing, Emma Serl is a good choice. Or a similar product with an updated look is offered by Queen's Language Lessons: http://www.queenhomeschool.com/productpages/Language%20Lessons/Language%20Lessons.html The workbook is $22.95 and I don't think you need the teacher guide - the lessons are pretty straight forward. I bought mine from Children's Books and the shipping was only $4. http://www.homeschooldiscountproducts.com/servlet/Categories?category=Queen+Homeschool+Supplies Emma Serl's book is also offered in color (instead of b&w) on Rainbow Resource. Have you checked out SimplyCharlotteMason.com? I love their products! And they offer excellent advice for CM-style curriculum. Best Wishes, Ann Edited July 23, 2009 by amtmcm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaterbabs Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 My just-coming-out-of-public-schooled son is doing well with CLE, but it's NOT a Charlotte Mason approach. It is however, rigorous, thorough, inexpensive and easy to administer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclecticmom Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Thanks for the suggestion to look at Junior Analytical Grammar! I've been planning to combine the sentence labeling and writing from Shurley with the Diagramming and other stuff in R & S. The Junior Analytical Grammar does the grammar portion for me in only 11 weeks! Also, I downloaded the Writing Novel's workbook and it is awesome! There is a month of writing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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