mommaduck Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Thanks. We crossed in my editing. There are several kinds of Universalists, so doing a comparison may be difficult in that I do not want to incidentally portray them inaccurately. It may help if you start a "what do universalists believe?" thread. I can respond to an answer from them on the points that we disagree ;) (not an attacking response, just informative :) ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oceandaughter Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 My understanding of Universalism (and that's what I believe personally) is that everyone goes to heaven. (To put it in a nutshell.) Love to hear more about how this does or doesn't fit in with reformed theology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 My understanding of Universalism (and that's what I believe personally) is that everyone goes to heaven. (To put it in a nutshell.) Love to hear more about how this does or doesn't fit in with reformed theology. Reformed believe firmly in election and predestination. That some will be with Gd in eternity and others will be separated from Him for eternity. Which is nearly the direct opposite of Universalism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oceandaughter Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Ok. Thanks for clearing that up. Now,the ex southern baptist has questions. So, are you saying that God himself chooses who will be saved or who won't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Ok. Thanks for clearing that up. Now,the ex southern baptist has questions. So, are you saying that God himself chooses who will be saved or who won't? Choosing who will AND who won't is called double predestination, something that only hyper calvinists hold to, not Reformed. Election and Predestination is that Gd, in His Wisdom and Foreknowledge (something we cannot fully comprehend), has chosen those that are His. Another example is that He chose Israel. Was He evil in that He didn't choose all Nations at that time? No. He had a Purpose and did to for His Glory. Man's bent is naturally away from Gd and we suffer the consequence of it. It is by Gd's Grace that any of us have a relationship with Him and desire Him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen in VA Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 OT a bit, but I found a nifty website today that lists tons of scripture references supporting each of the Doctrines of Grace: http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/gracelist.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tami Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 I don't go out for beer, belong to a Reformed denomination, or smoke cigars. I was simply "converted" to the Dark Side by studying Ephesians some years ago, particularly the first chapter. Since then, Scripture has made much more sense! It was like unlocking the keys of understanding for me. However, I don't believe in overemphasis of non-essential doctrines, so I rarely discuss it IRL with my Arminian friends. It's fun to have found some fellowship here on TWTM board. I am admitting now that I'm not sure what worldly pursuits like smoking and drinking have to do with Calvinism. :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricket Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 I don't go out for beer, belong to a Reformed denomination, or smoke cigars. I was simply "converted" to the Dark Side by studying Ephesians some years ago, particularly the first chapter. Since then, Scripture has made much more sense! It was like unlocking the keys of understanding for me. However, I don't believe in overemphasis of non-essential doctrines, so I rarely discuss it IRL with my Arminian friends. It's fun to have found some fellowship here on TWTM board. I am admitting now that I'm not sure what worldly pursuits like smoking and drinking have to do with Calvinism. :confused: I know Martin Luther had a fondness for beer. I'm not sure where the cigars come in, although my dad and brother (big Calvinists) love their pipes and occasional cigar. Here's an interesting article: Sam Adams, Beer and the Reformers. There is even a book that came out recently called Drinking with Calvin and Luther. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 I don't know either. Many of the PCA members do drink socially and only drunkeness is prohibitted in the Bible. Smoking isn't mentioned since there was no tobacco in the Old World. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tami Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Interesting. I guess I just follow the Bible, and haven't read the Reformers. At any rate, just because the Reformers did something doesn't mean it's beneficial. You know, Sola Scriptura and all. Yes, only drunkeness is prohibited. At the same time, smoking is injurious to the body, and addicting, so I don't believe that smoking is glorifying to God for that reason. Perhaps "Cradle Reformed" are a bit more liberal than I am on these things. I was raised Arminian, and believe in holiness and setting oneself apart from the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cajun.classical Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I am admitting now that I'm not sure what worldly pursuits like smoking and drinking have to do with Calvinism. :confused: It has to do with the Reformed perspective on Christian liberty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tami Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 It has to do with the Reformed perspective on Christian liberty. Ah hah. I am not Reformed, but I am a 5-point Calvinist. So there are some nuances of difference there between the two. Interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenn in Mo Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Choosing who will AND who won't is called double predestination, something that only hyper calvinists hold to, not Reformed. Election and Predestination is that Gd, in His Wisdom and Foreknowledge (something we cannot fully comprehend), has chosen those that are His. Another example is that He chose Israel. Was He evil in that He didn't choose all Nations at that time? No. He had a Purpose and did to for His Glory. Man's bent is naturally away from Gd and we suffer the consequence of it. It is by Gd's Grace that any of us have a relationship with Him and desire Him. Just trying to better understand....isn't choosing who WILL automatically a choosing of who won't, also? Otherwise, wouldn't it be saying that He chooses who will and then some others also choose to come? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Just trying to better understand....isn't choosing who WILL automatically a choosing of who won't, also? Otherwise, wouldn't it be saying that He chooses who will and then some others also choose to come? Not exactly. Instead of making a list of keepers and toss aways, it's more that everyone is doomed, but by His Grace He saves those that He has chosen as His. For whatever His reason is, all we know is that it's will eventually show His Glory. That's the Reformed view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.