Herbal supplements for hormonal/moodiness issues? (woman content)

[awanama]

I am looking for suggestions of the best vitamins/herbal recommendations you have to control moodiness. I will give you a some background. I am 31 and have struggled over the last 3 to 4 years with my periods being anywhere from normal to extremely heavy. I have horrible pain with them, but they are regular as far as I always know what day I will start. I have also suffered with tiredness and lack of energy. I talked with my doctor about this and back in September she put me on Lybrel birth control pills. These pills stop you from having your cycle at all. At first, they did help me with my moodiness and obviously without having my period, I don't have the pain. I do still have some small symptoms.

 

Now, after being on them for 6 months I am having the moodiness again and am gaining weight with them. I plan on finishing the packet I am on and then quitting them. I refuse to gain weight from a medication because I went through this before and have never been able to lose that weight. I am looking for anything that could help me with the moodiness and the cramping/back pain that I have. Do you have any suggestions of an over-the-counter treatment?

 

Thanks.

[Miss Peregrine]

I use fish oil, st. john's wort, and a b100 complex, also natural progesterone.

[abbeyej]

How is your sugar intake? I know there's a direct relationship for me between my sugar intake and my weight and the severity of my cycle symptoms.

 

I'm a major sugar / carb addict, but I know it makes me more irritable -- both generally, and especially around my cycle. I also know that the physical symptoms are much less for me when I weigh less.

 

I've mentioned before that I've been doing Eat to Live (Dr Joel Fuhrman) for the last two months, and I was actually *surprised* when my period started this week. It was right on time, but I hadn't thought about it, because I just didn't have all those PMS symptoms. EtL is not a low-carb diet (you eat all the fruits, veggies and legumes you want and limited whole grains), but it includes no refined sugars. I've cheated a little from time to time, but I've basically done it as written for two months now. I've lost 23lbs (finally!), and I'm not as cranky as usual. ;) I've known about the sugar/weight/menstrual symptoms connection for myself in the past, but, sigh, sometimes that isn't enough to change our habits, huh? I'm planning to stick with it this time though... I know it's really worth it!

 

There *are* herbal remedies that help as well, but they don't do as much for me if I'm consuming sugar at all. (Caffeine bothers some women too, but I'm not a major caffeine addict and haven't noticed a correlation for me.) I like the "Women's Nutritional System" vitamins from Rainbow Light: http://www.vitacost.com/Rainbow-Light-Womens-Nutritional-System It includes a good formulation of vitamins and minerals, plus herbs like vitex/chasteberry...

[melissel]

I'll add to the above advice, that you should get your hands on the book The Mood Cure. It incorporates CMM's advice on supplements, and complements Abbey's. It will give you explanations and many, many supplement options to help even you out while you start making permanent changes to your lifestyle (in my case, more sleep, less stress) and food choices. For example, two of the supplements (5-HTP and glutamine) I'm taking based on the book's advice have effectively done away with my cravings for sugar/starches/sweets. It's bizarre to eat a meal and be DONE without feeling the need for dessert, and to walk around the house during the day without feeling the need to rummage through the cabinets for something to quell my cravings. And like Abbey, about 8 days after I started supplementing, my period arrived, and I had no idea it was coming at all. Usually I turn into stark raving crazy mommy before my period arrives. I don't know if it's supplements or the decreased sugar/carbs, but whatever it was, I was happy about it. My stomach is also more settled everyday, which was an unexpected and very welcome side effect.

 

Anyway, the book offers terrific details and explanations. Check it out. If my library didn't have it, I'd gladly spend the money on it (and might anyway, just so I always have it on hand for reference).

 

HTH!

[awanama]

Amy and Melissa,

Would you mind sharing how many mg you take of each and how often? HTP-5 seems like it covers a lot of the symptoms I have. I'd like to start with one product and see how it works. Which one do you think would be the best to start out with? And do I have to work myself up in dosage amount?

 

Abbey,

How difficult is it to follow that diet? Do they use a lot of strange food items? I live in a small town and we just have the basics available. No strange foods even remotely close. I do crave sugars and have a lot of weight to lose. Maybe a combination of an herbal supplement along with a well rounded diet would do me wonders. Any other time that I have tried to cut sugar I have gotten deathly sick. I'm hoping the supplement could maybe help with the cravings and slowly go off the sugars. At this point, I am willing to try just about anything but I have bought books before and there recipes have been full of strange foods or protein powders.

 

Thanks

[abbeyej]

Abbey,

How difficult is it to follow that diet? Do they use a lot of strange food items? I live in a small town and we just have the basics available. No strange foods even remotely close. I do crave sugars and have a lot of weight to lose. Maybe a combination of an herbal supplement along with a well rounded diet would do me wonders. Any other time that I have tried to cut sugar I have gotten deathly sick. I'm hoping the supplement could maybe help with the cravings and slowly go off the sugars. At this point, I am willing to try just about anything but I have bought books before and there recipes have been full of strange foods or protein powders.

 

The diet is pretty simple and straightforward -- but it's also pretty radically different from the way most of us eat. You can easily find all the foods you need at your local grocery store though, and you can vary it based on what's available to you. If you're interested, I highly recommend reading the book itself to see *why* he makes the various recommendations he does. And while weight-loss is a concern, and it's an almost certain outcome if you follow the diet as written, his main goal is lifelong health and protection from disease...

 

In a nutshell, the diet recommends:

Veggies: unlimited, but he recommends at least 1lb of raw and 1lb of cooked vegetables (any green veggies, peppers, cauliflower, tomatoes, onions, eggplant, mushrooms, etc) per day. (This is really, really tough to meet -- he says it's okay if you can't, but you should really *try*. It took me a while to work up to this.)

Fruit: unlimited, but again, he recommends 4+ fruits per day (I find this much easier than I would have expected -- once on this diet, I began to crave fresh fruit)

Beans/legumes: unlimited, aim for at least 1C per day.

 

Whole grains and starchy vegetables (like potatoes or cooked carrots): 1C or less per day. He points out that some people must cut out grains completely in order to lose weight, though usually they can add them back in when they're at their maintenance weight. I seem to do okay at the 1C or less range, though I know typically grains are a big problem for me...

 

Oils: I'd have to check... I think he recommends less than one teaspoon per day.

 

Avocados: up to 2oz per day. I'm not actually sure how that translates in terms of the average avocado. I finally decided that I was going to allow myself up to half an avocado a day an not worry about it.

 

Nuts and seeds: raw, up to 1 oz per day.

 

No sugars, meat, dairy, dried fruit, juice.

 

Pretty much, you just eat as many fruits, veggies and beans as you can stand ;) and not much else. I was a little concerned about going quite that low fat at first, but I really have felt great, lost weight quickly, and friends have even complemented me on how great my skin looks. Hard to complain about that!

 

Anyway, it's *tough* to change so radically from the way most of us eat. But it doesn't require purchase of (or even access to) any particularly strange foods -- just tons of fruits and veggies and beans. And the rules are pretty simple -- there's not a lot of guesswork about what is "allowed" and what isn't, what would be the best choice, etc.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Eat-Live-Revolutionary-Formula-Sustained/dp/0316735507

[Miss Peregrine]

Oh, yes on the sugar thing! It completely changes how I act/react to things. Incidentally, the fish oil has greatly reduced my cravings for carbs/sugar.

 

I take 1tsp of fish oil for every 50lbs of body weight. I use Carlson's, make sue yours is tested for heavy metals.

 

1200 mg of st. johns

 

B complex 100 mg of all the B vites plus 400mcg folic acid (Trader Joes)

 

Natural progesterone 10 days starting with the day after I ovulated

[awanama]

Abbey,

Thank you for the detailed response. I am going out of town on Monday and I am going to be out shopping for two days while my husband goes to a class. I will definately see if the bookstores have a copy of the book.

 

Did you have a tough time starting out? Like sugar withdrawal and sickness from it? Or were you a fairly healthy eater prior to the new way of eating?

 

Thanks.

[awanama]

Thanks Amy! I do already have B Complex and fish oil so I think I will start with those. Then while I'm out shopping this week I will try to get a look at the others you recommend.

Thank you.

[abbeyej]

Did you have a tough time starting out? Like sugar withdrawal and sickness from it? Or were you a fairly healthy eater prior to the new way of eating?

 

"Fairly healthy"? Yes, I'd say "fairly". We've certainly always leaned towards a more whole-foods approach, but I also looooove sugar ;) and I had fallen into patterns of justifying all sorts of awful foods to myself. I had put on a lot of weight since we moved (almost four years ago) -- I think I just self-medicated my depression with brownies and co-cola and things like that. sigh. So on the one hand, there are a great many people in this country who eat a far worse diet than I ever have -- and yet there was a long way for me to go.

 

Really though, I didn't have any major problems with the switch. Dh and I were pretty sick of vegetables pretty quickly ;) (we referred to it for a short time as the "why even bother eating diet"), but we stuck with it, and eventually we came around to sort of enjoying it! We're now about two months in, and have eased up on certain areas (these are detailed in the book), but I'm definitely planning to try to keep to the spirit of the EtL diet.

 

One thing that I think helps with the transition is that this is not a "low carb" diet. You can, for instance, eat all the whole fruits (not juices, not dried fruits) that you want. If you crave sugar, you can have it -- you just have to have it in the fiber-rich form of an actual piece of fruit. This is a low cal (though you don't do any calorie counting), high nutrient, high fiber, low fat, moderate protein, no refined carbs diet... You're also not limited in the *amount* of food you can have. If you're hungry, you're welcome to eat more food -- it just has to be fruits or veggies (cooked without added fat) or beans...

 

Tammy asked yesterday about some of the foods dh and I have been eating on this diet. This is hardly comprehensive, but it might give you an idea:

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=78434

[Janna]

Abbey, I have a couple of questions for you about this.

 

For one, have you heard of or read "The China Study"? While it's definitely not a diet book or how to lose weight book, it is a comprehensive study on the effects if nutrition and disease. The author is a big proponent of a diet very similar to, if not exactly, what the EtL book talks about. If you haven't read it, you might find it very interesting. I think it's fascinating.

 

I have not read EtL, but I am in the middle of The China Study, and am wanting to change my diet as well as my family's. I, like you, would say I eat "fairly healthy" and eat a whole foods diet...but I have a long ways to go too. I too, am a major sugar addict. :)

 

I'm wondering, did you change just your diet, or your whole family? I know your ds has big-time allergies, so maybe it wasn't a big change for your kids. Here, it would be massive (and dare I say detrimental in their eyes) if I changed the eating habits to what I am wanting, for them also. And quite honestly, while I already don't eat a lot of dairy (lactose intolerant), my dc do. Well, kind of- compared to me, but probably not compared to other families. I mean they like cereal every morning (milk) and buttered toast. But because I'm so adamant about organic, we don't do a lot of dairy because of the cost. So yogurt, cottage cheese, regular cheese etc is not a regular thing in our house.

 

Since reading The China Study, we've pretty much eaten only soup. :) Guess what? I'm tired of soup. I know it's so easy and cheap and healthy. But I'm sick of it now. I'm wondering if it's not also part of the mentality that soup = winter, though too. And I'm definitely sick of winter! ;)

 

So would you have any tips on how I could make this transition for my whole family, not just me? I don't have picky eaters, which I am sooooo grateful for. They both like veggies (and prefer them raw) and will eat (like tonight) spinach if it's raw and in salad. So I've taken to having our salads be ONLY spinach, with a little dressing. If I weren't lazy right now, I'd load it up with raw broccoli, carrots, cucumbers etc....I'm just referring to the salad leaf. However, they aren't big fans of eggplant, and definitely won't eat avocado (which fortunately just leaves more for me), but otherwise, they're pretty good. But I think cutting out dairy is going to be hard. And I will say too, that dh and I especially have really missed a good slab of meat. I went and bought a steak at a local organic creamery last Sunday and I plan on making it Tuesday (why I waited more than a week, I don't know). So I'm wondering about that aspect too. If my dh isn't a big supporter of this, but is a big supporter of me, so he'll follow if he sees it's important to me, will he be suffering?

 

I would love to make as many of these changes as possible before the baby comes, so it's natural to me after the baby is here. But I'm nervous. Oh, and none of us like tofu. :) Oh, and one more thing - have you found this to be more expensive, less expensive, or the same?

 

Thanks for reading my babbling.

[abbeyej]

Hey, Janna,

 

I haven't read The China Study -- only about it -- though Fuhrman certainly has and references it many times in Eat to Live. I think you're right that they overlap almost completely in terms of the conclusions they reach on what an optimal diet looks like. (And it's not very complex! In fact, it's a lot like Michael Pollan's "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants." philosophy...)

 

Dh did the whole EtL thing with me for the first six weeks, as the book recommends. We're now a little looser with it, but we're both committed to keeping to it most of the time when at home, and maintaining the increase in our fruit and vegetable intake especially. I have reason to be concerned about keeping dh's heart particularly healthy, and there's certainly enough type 2 diabetes and strokes in my extended family, that I feel it's particularly perilous for me to eat a poor diet.

 

For the kids, we only slightly tweaked their diet -- they didn't totally switch to EtL with us. I still buy them milk, and they still eat a little dairy and meat. I think it would be *extremely* challenging to feed children an EtL-type diet without the fat/protein/calories from nuts. For the kids, I fed them the same veggies and beans and fruit dh and I were eating. I would add additional olive oil to their vegetables, or let them sprinkle cheese on their beans, drink milk on occasion, things like that. For lunches, they sometimes got meat products while I just ate broccoli, etc.

 

Fuhrman does have a book on feeding children called Disease-Proof Your Child: http://www.amazon.com/Disease-Proof-Your-Child-Feeding-Right/dp/0312338082 . I haven't read it yet, in large part because of my impression that he expects nuts to be such a significant contributor to a child's diet. Well, lol, that's just not gonna work here!

 

The kids did get 1) more vegetables, 2) more beans and less meat, and 3) more quantity and more variety of fruits when we switched to EtL. They didn't complain about this at all. :) But no, I didn't switch them completely. I'm not convinced it makes sense. Maybe someday I'll change my mind.

 

As for cost... Initially, I spent a little more, though over the course of the first month, it balanced out and I spent right at my usual grocery budget. On the other hand, we didn't eat out nearly as much, so our discretionary line item was much lower than usual. The second month, as I became even more used to the new way we have been eating, I think the grocery budget dropped a little further (but I also found a couple of restaurants where we could eat within the EtL framework, so...)...

 

As for your dh... Fuhrman allows for up to 12 oz of meat a week (after the initial 6 weeks of stricter adherence to the low-grain, vegan diet -- though for someone who isn't really trying to lose weight, you could skip that phase), and also suggests that if you follow the diet 90% of the time, you could feel okay about cheating 10% of the time on the foods you most want. The idea is that it's more important to eat certain foods (lots and lots of fruits, veggies, legumes) than it is not to eat other foods -- that allowing those (very sparingly!) is certainly better than missing out on all the benefits of the diet... Dh was great and really went along with the diet for 6 weeks. Now he says he's "done", lol, but what he means is that if he's out or if it's a special occasion, he's not going to turn down the thing he really wants (even if it isn't EtL-friendly). But he's perfectly happy to eat or EtL-style food at home -- at least 90% of the time. :) Maybe your dh will feel the same?

[Janna]

Thank you Abbey. I really appreciate the thoughtful, detailed response.

 

The China Study also reiterates the need to eat (a plant based diet), but that if not eating certain things is going to stress you out, then it's not worth it. The "cost" of the stress is greater than what it is you just want to eat. I think that's what I'm trying to do - find that balance. To know what the best foods to eat are and be in the habit of eating them, but be OK if I cheat once in a while, or if a friend wants to go out for dinner, that I'm not so fanatical about it that I don't feel I can go.

 

I think the way your dh handled it - supportive and doing it along with you for 6 weeks - is exactly how my dh would also. But I can also see him saying "I'm done" after that time period too (but eating it graciously at home still). And I can totally see both of us saying to each other what you guys said, "it's the why-bother-eating-diet", LOL.

 

As far as the kiddos go, I will look into that book. But honestly, I don't want to place a burden of food on them. I don't want mealtimes to be a struggle. And not only that, but to be honest, even though I go to the gym regularly, they are still much more active than I am and their metabolisms are much, much higher. So I really don't worry so much if they're eating animal proteins, the way I do for myself and esp. my dh. And like you, I have many reasons to believe a diet high in sugar and animal proteins would be perilous for me when diabetes, high blood pressure and cancer run in my family. I just wasn't sure if you had made the whole family join you or not. Because honestly, it's going to be harder having things still in the house for the kids. But I don't see it working any other way.

 

Thanks again! :)

[abbeyej]

Yeah, Janna, I think we're pretty much approaching this with the same thoughts. :)

 

And I think when dh gets home on Wednesday... I'm going to make some EtL-style collard greens. And mashed potatoes. And green beans. And a nice fruit salad. And I'm gonna pick up some totally un-EtL fried chicken for dh as the first acknowledgment of how proud I am of him and his tenure. :)