Anyone tried immersion at home with older kids?

[Phyllis in Canada]

My kids are 15, 10, and 8, and I'm considering doing some form of French immersion with them over the summer in which I would only speak in French (I'm fluent, though it's not my mother tongue). We've done that for a day or two here and there over the years, but I've always given up. I'm thinking since there won't be any other school work over the summer, that might be a better time to attempt it. Has anyone ever tried this? Do you have any advice or tips? Should it be total immersion or partial immersion? Should I use some kind of system or just everyday talk?

[iwka]

I don't have an answer, but I think it's a great idea...I might do the same with Polish...

[Nan in Mass]

It was more successful with the younger one than with the older one because I'm not fluent in French and the only things I had to talk to the older one about were beyond my French, but even the older one learned enough French that when he went to France people could communicate with him. For the younger one (who might have been about 8 when we began? I can't remember now) it was a smashing success. I did just what you are considering - began speaking French one summer. He just spent 3 weeks in the French speaking part of Switzerland and could understand everything easily, all but a few unfamiliar words here or there, and could make himself understood (albeit in not very grammatical French) with no trouble. He spoke well enough that he could play games, tell stories, explain how to do things... I would definately encourage people to do this, even with older children. It takes some effort, but is well, well worth it. I began by saying everything in English and then in French. After a few days, I switched the order, saying everything in French first and then in English. After a few days of that, I began skipping the English translation for things I thought they understood. And a few days after that, I only offered a translation if they asked. I always provided a translation with no fuss if they asked. I think that helped them to like the project. I encouraged them to speak French back to me. About a month into the project, they understood all the basic things that I said, and could answer me back some. I dropped it after the summer with my older son, and dropped it after about a year with my youngest, only watching the occasional movie and reading books, only speaking it occasionally, almost always with my son answering in English. Last year, I found a tutor for the younger one. And this year, when he is 14, I've been able to see how very, very successful the project was. A little goes a lllloooonnnnggg way. If you can do it, it is well worth it, because it produces usable French. School French isn't particularly useful except to read, I've found.

HTH

-Nan

[asta]

(I've said this elsewhere, so I'll repeat it for you)

 

DS started German kindergarten (in Germany) at 3. German became his first "non-home" language. At 5, he moved to a French speaking school (end of kindergarten, beginning of 1st grade - Belgium). French became his first "written" language.

 

DH speaks German. I am fluent in French. DS would speak with neither of us. I asked his teachers about it both times, and both times they told me that DS would not respond to us because he "knew" that German and French were not our mother tongues.

 

To this day, even though he is taking German again (he's 15 now), he STILL won't speak it to his father. Every so often, I can do a brain trick on him by yelling something from another room (a task or something) in French, and he'll respond in English, not realizing that I didn't speak in English.

 

I am not saying that your child will do this (refuse to respond), but I thought you might like to know that it is apparently a common occurrence.

 

best,

[Phyllis in Canada]

I'm not too worried about their refusing to speak; we have done immersion for a day or so here and there and they right into it, though I did have a carrot dangling in front each time: ice cream for all who made an effort and had a good attitude. I'm not sure I'm prepared to serve ice cream EVERY DAY this summer, though if it's the only thing to get them to talk, it's probably worth it! I wonder if there are other incentives I could come up with?

 

It's good to hear, Nan, that even with your willingness to translate whenever necessary, you still feel it was a success. I'm a little concerned that we all might just talk a whole lot less to avoid the hassle of (for me) trying to make myself understood and (for them) trying to understand.

[stripe]

I think it will work if they want it to work. If they are into it, or feel that there is a reason for it, it will work. Whatever the reason is -- a person must either want OR need to use the language, I think, in order to change the language s/he is speaking in. It does take effort, a lot of effort, especially at the beginning.

[Nan in Mass]

Yes, it was definately an excersize in how little one can say to one's children LOL. It still worked, though. I read lots of books aloud. The French have lovely comic books and we read tons of those aloud. I thought they were better because they contained more conversation and less description. Besides, it is possible to read a 14yo a comic book aloud, sitting together on the sofa, whereas they are not likely to be very interested in either a baby book (the appropriate level of vocabulary) or an un-understandable chapter book (the appropriate level of interest). I let them pick them from the French library. I translated everything until they got impatient with the translation and insisted that they didn't need it. That happened a lot sooner than I thought it would, so soon it was hard to believe they really didn't need me to translate. I'm betting that by the end of the summer, you won't need to translate something like TinTin. I continue to throw in a translation of a word here or there, to their annoyance. I also let mine watch movies that I normally wouldn't, if they set them to French. They could have subtitles if they wanted. I myself find watching a movie in French with English subtitles about the most helpful thing I can do to improve my French. Half a movie and popcorn before bed makes a great bribe GRIN. I was far more likely to say yes to requrests if they were made in French, also.

HTH

-Nan

[Phyllis in Canada]

Good ideas! I tried an Asterix aloud, but found the translation grueling! I wonder if a Tintin would be easier. Movies in French would definitely be a good incentive for my kids too.

 

Okay, now I'm getting eager to start! I really hope we last the summer!

[westcoastmom]

In BC, they have late French immersion programs in the school that start in grade 5. They use total immersion with the idea that intensive French is what it will take to learn French.

 

Are your children on board?

 

We have had a French au pair since the beginning of the year and my children know a lot of French now. The oldest is 7 though, so my children are not as old as yours. They also have AIM French classes with their homeschool group. The AIM program is designed to teach the structure of the language using the most commonly used words.

[Nan in Mass]

TinTin is definately easier. I left Astrix for later when they could read it on their own. There were also lots of others, including some classics like Wind in the Willows, at our library. Some of these my children know well, so when we read them aloud, I didn't have to translate as much.

[stripe]

Movies in French would definitely be a good incentive for my kids too.

 

I've seen the movie "The Eighth Day" (Le Huitième Jour) with Daniel Auteuil. It had a not simplistic plot but fairly sparse/simple dialogue. I found it the French easy to understand.

[Nan in Mass]

We've been mostly getting whatever American DVDs our library has and setting the language to French. Not the best, I'm sure, but it works, and it is easy to find movies appropriate for particular ages that way.

[stripe]

For younger kids, there are French options on Tumblebooks, which I get through my library system. Your library might have some novels and other books for kids in French, too, if they have foreign language material.

[marf1273]

You can start with partial immersion because children can get bored especially if they don’t have interest in the language. But yes, you can always speak to them in French every day just so they get exposed to the language and at least learn little by little. Just don’t be too strict with them.

[ajjkt]

I liked this idea so I've started doing it for an hour or two in the evenings. It's a hard slog because my French is so rusty. However, it feels great when ds8 yells out the translation after only a few days.

 

Has anyone else had one child who can't understand anything they say, but can mimic the speech really well? Then my other one can't mimic the speech at all but is picking up the comprehension much quicker.

 

Amy

[stripe]

My younger child understood but was hesitant to speak in the second language, but a near-total immersion environment that was fairly positive (not a lot of corrections or giggling) helped draw her out.

[naturalmom]

I'm picking up Doing Foreign Language, put together by the Concordia Language Villages, at the library today. It's for sale on amazon, or you might be able to get it at your library. I'll try to put some feedback on it once I've read it. I am hoping it has a lot of good suggestions, since immersion is what they do every summer with younger kids and teens (and adults, too!)

[cathmom]

I'm picking up Doing Foreign Language, put together by the Concordia Language Villages, at the library today. It's for sale on amazon, or you might be able to get it at your library. I'll try to put some feedback on it once I've read it. I am hoping it has a lot of good suggestions, since immersion is what they do every summer with younger kids and teens (and adults, too!)

 

I just bought this book too! I haven't gotten too far into it yet, just the introductory stuff.

[jamnkats]

I've been doing this for a while with mine (14, 13, 9 and 7). It has defnitely helped the boys (older ones) to be doing formal Spanish study at the same time. It is REALLY hard though (for me) and it is really hard to have heart-to-heart talks and talk emotionally to them. I just took a couple days off (English only) and felt SO GUILTY for speaking English. :)

[Ester Maria]

But, when we go to Germany, DS suddenly becomes fluent in German. His Oma and Opa only speak German. So DS knows how to get what he needs. He speaks to people at the store, or relatives in German. I'm amazed.

Children don't differentiate between languages as much as they differentiate between situations and people associated with those situations. Until I went to school I was not aware of the fact I was bilingual - not aware in sense of intellectual awareness and the concept of two different languages. I was simply aware of different situations, and me behaving differently according to the situation.

 

The fact that situations are usually related to people does not help much parents who "switch" languages with their children, or who in the presence of their children speak other languages children speak, because nearly all children at some point rebel; the key is in consistency then.

 

But overall, to successfully teach your children a foreign language, if they are young, you need to create something which will present to them a different situation - sometimes little stuff, such as a change of location (e.g. speak only foreign language to your child in a specific room, at a specific time of the day; have a specific toy nearby to play with when speaking a different language, etc), help a lot, especially if they become a routine - young children need a routine, with the older ones it's considerably easier.