Avila
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Posts posted by Avila
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CCC never mentions the word Host. And St. Paul is most definitely referring to consecrated. 1 Cor 11:27 and 1 Cor. 10:16-17.
And the response "When we eat this Bread and drink this Cup, we proclaim your Death, O Lord, until you come again" comes directly from the Mass and St. Ambrose.
I normally refer to it as the Eucharist, Holy Communion, or the Body of Christ.
We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
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It is bread. As opposed to wine. And it is what Stephanie was asking about. It is consecrated, and I think we were clear on what we meant.
We all said that she was receiving Jesus. In the bread, to be more specific.
Sometimes we use language that supports people where they are in their journey, as does the CCC.
CCC 1377: The Eucharistic presence of Christ begins at the moment of the consecration and endures as long as the Eucharistic species subsist. Christ is present whole and entire in each part of the species and whole and entire in each of their parts, in such a way that the breaking of the bread does not divide Christ.
And St. Paul says that "therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord." 1 Cor. 11:27
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I really don't think properly catechized people leave, at least for other churches. They may leave for dissent (contraception, homosexuality, marriage issues). But many people get drawn away because they can't tell the difference between the Catholic Church and the non-denominational church down the street, and that church offers: better music, better youth programs, more opportunities for fellowship, more people who seem on fire for Jesus.
I can't give these people Jesus. The Holy Spirit calls, and people have to answer. They encounter Christ in the sacraments -- and they are so much more likely to recognize that if they have been properly catechized to know what they are receiving.
I can offer the latter. The former is not my province. I can neither offer them Jesus nor withhold him from them. It is not up to me, or any other catechist or baptized Christian.
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My Catholic homeschool group is made up of lots of people in different stages of their journey as Catholics. We all are encouraged to help one another and guide one another as actively participating, faithful Catholics.
Sometimes people grow and learn, and many people are far more faithful Catholics than they were before they started homeschooling. Something about teaching your faith to your own kids and living it in the community of other people who hold you accountable seems to do that to people.
Sometimes we have people leave because we are too Catholic for them. It does happen. I don't think we should be less of who we are to be more encouraging for them. I think we have to live out our faith, actively participate in Mass and the sacraments, and consciously keep learning the Truth. And that will attract people that the Holy Spirit is calling.
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I am still not getting what you mean by being specially prepared for non-practicing Catholics.
The nice thing about being Catholic is that it really is not an opinion thing. The CCC is right there to address it, if there is a disagreement between what someone who was poorly catechized thinks the Church teaches and what someone teaching from the CCC says that it does. If they think that I am out to lunch for explaining the Church using the Church, then maybe they are not ready to be part of the Church again. Yet. That is not up to me, though. That is all the Holy Spirit. I couldn't move that mountain if I wanted to.
Will someone poorly catechized feel comfortable? I don't know the answer to that question. If the answer is to water down teaching for that to happen, then, no. I don't see that.
What specifically are you looking for to address your concerns?
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1. We bow to acknowledge the Real Presence of Christ. Christ is present inside the tabernacle, which is normally located at the front of the church.
2. Communion used to be offered only in the form of the bread at most Masses. Wine was offered to the people only on special feast days. Since Jesus is fully present in both species, you don't have to receive both to fully receive him. And many people choose to receive only the bread.
3. No clue here. Anyone else want to take a stab? Maybe that person is celiac and can't receive the bread? Not sure.
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The personal relationship comment came directly out of the Crossing the Tiber thread that you referenced, and it is what started the comments that seem to concern you.
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We did ours for my middle dd because the DRE said we needed to and because all the other kids were doing one.
I don't see a real purpose for them, but my dd seems to like it anyhow.
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And distinctions have to be and should be made between what active, practicing Catholics believe and what lapsed Catholics think the Church teaches or believes. The Church, of course, is not entirely made up of enthusiastic believers right out of an EWTN special. But when we invite people into the life of the Church, we are inviting them into what the Church teaches and believes and into active participation in it.
I don't think it is fair to say, for instance, that most Catholics don't have a personal relationship with Christ. And I stand by that statement.
I will be happy to bow out of the discussion, if that is what you are asking for. But what we believe and teach as Catholics is not determined by who our audience is. The approach may differ, but the fundamentals should not be.
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I don't want to derail what love2read started, because I really don't think this is what she had in mind. But I am confused as to why lapsed Catholics have to take top priority in any forum.
I think that discussions about what Church teaching is, for example, would be beneficial to practicing Catholics, lapsed Catholics or potential converts. If people are confused about what the Church teaches, that confusion is only going to be remedied by learning what the Church teaches.
I do think that what draws people into the Church may not have the same bearing on those who left. People leave for all sorts of reasons, but most of them are not, at least to begin with, doctrinal. But doctrinal issues are very important for people looking to convert.
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I bought the kit from Emmanuel Bools. My kid loved it. She still has it hanging on her closet door.
I don't see any real liturgical, philosophical or theological point there, but ...
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I am tackling Mount Washmore. That may be a weeklong process, as I got behind. :(.
I am also cleaning bathrooms and trying to clear off and use my treadmill. Can't walk outside anymore because the allergies are overtaking me.
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Bumping.
I would also like to invite anyone who is friendly and interested in the Catholic Church (already Catholic or seekers welcomed) to join us over on the Crossing the Tiber Social Group. It is a great place to learn more about the Catholic faith in a comfortable, relaxed setting.
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Yes, but ...
There is a reason we started the Crossing the Tiber Social group. What you are talking about may work better on it than on this board, which seems to be more for questions specific to homeschooling and curriculum. At the time, I think people wanted to keep this board non-controversial.
We have a few very anti-Catholic posters who report people and report threads as soon as they appear on the GB. Most of us who have been active in religion threads have had run-ins with them. It makes some people uncomfortable, and they would rather have a safer place than the GB to ask their questions.
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Catholics don't make the claim that everything has to be scripturally based. The Church decided what went into to the Bible. Tradition includes all the teachings of Christ, passed down by the apostles: oral form in Tradition and written form in scripture. So just because something is not explicitly found in scripture is no reason for a Catholic to disregard it. This is not a rule that is going to change, so you need to understand what it entails before you come into the Church. Kimberly Hahn's book Life-Giving Love is a great resource, as are all the Theology of the Body books put out.
As far as practical advice goes, I would find a Couple to Couple League trainer in your area. Or look for an NFP-only doctor, who can help you with resources. You need someone in person there to help you get started, learn whatever system you choose to follow, and help when your chart does not look like the book says it should.
NFP is not easy. But we are all called to make sacrifices as part of the Christian life. We all have crosses to bear, and we don't always get to choose what those crosses are. Find a good priest and make an appointment to discuss these issues. Get spiritual direction from someone following Church teaching who understands the importance of doing so. Too many people feel like this is an area that it is fine to not follow the Church. Don't start out your life as a Catholic that way.
If you have a local Catholic homeschooling group, see if you can join their email list and ask specifically for an NFP-only doctor or where they go for NFP classes. Those ladies usually can point you to several really good options.
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I try to get Mass times for the 3 or 4 parishes close to me, in case of those kind of fails on my part. I try to aim for an early Mass, just in case.
We usually end up having peanut butter and crackers or fruit and cheese before Mass and then eating a real meal after. It is only a few times a year, so I can live with a lack of balance in our food choices.
It has gotten harder because of activities, and we either have to miss the activity or plan to go early in the day. My dh went to the Cathedral because he can walk there from work, and we went to Mass with the school kids. Not ideal, but it worked.
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In DFW. Yay, Texas!
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Very excited and hoping to come back recharged. This is my catechist training for the year.
If you need me, Parrothead and Mouse both know how to get ahold of me. I will be checking FB and my email oce a day, but I don't think I will be able to access the forums.
Have a good weekend!
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Audrey, I prayed. I don't always post, but I pray when I see requests.
Please let us know how she is doing.
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My convo with a former DRE:
dRE: The parish school kids don't need CCD because they do it during the day.
Me: Mine do too!
DRE: They are taught by qualified teachers.
Me: I have a Bachelor's degree. That is all that is required to teach at private schools.
DRE: Well, they use materials approved by the diocese.
Me: Mine do too! Would you like to see our materials?
DRE: well, yours need the socialization. They have to participate in the parish.
Me: We are at Mass every Sunday and Holy Day. We volunteer in several parish ministries and are actively involved in Catholic homeschooling activities.
DRE: none of that counts.
Me: :001_huh:
Sometimes you have to make a point. And sometimes you have to go over their head to Father or your diocese, if they have policies in place for religious ed. If you can prove you are following the standards and they see you at Mass, most priests are reasonable.
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Yours get religious ed during the school day too. :D
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Trap the unicorn and sell it. Those things are worth a fortune. And if she really loved it, she would take better care of it.
Or get out the BB gun and let the kids pop off a few shots. Then it will choose somebody else's yard next time.
Or just make cupcakes and drink vodka, and you won't notice any more.
A few Mass questions
in Crossing the Tiber
Posted
In the Novus Ordo Liturgy of the Eucharist, the prayer says:
Blessed are you, Lord God of all creation, for through your goodness we have received the bread we offer you: fruit of the earth and work of human hands, it will become for us the bread of life.
Host isn't translated to host in the NO Mass.
We also have "the holy Bread of eternal life," "the Bread of life," and "all who partake of this one Bread and one Chalice."
I understand wanting to be correct, but at this point, it is nitpicking and really not relevant to answering the OP's question.