No, I don't think news crews should be twittering about off-camera conversations. It said in the article that there was an unwritten rule and only official, on-camera interview material is considered "on the record." Not everything is fair game. Not even the President is immune to making mistakes or saying something he shouldn't have. I don't envy his situation, since I'm notorious for sticking my foot in my mouth! There has to be a certain level of trust, and the administration will become more wary of the media if it (the media) can't keep assumed off the record things information actually off the record. On the other hand....maybe this is his attempt to unify the country? I mean, who DOESN'T agree with Obama on this? (If he could somehow tie this to the health care debate, then maybe we could get a workable bill in Congress!) :auto:

You know what I find most interesting about this thread....that so many people want what they don't have. The ones with "bigger" girls want smaller ones, those with "smaller" girls want bigger ones. Some people don't care at all about the "girls" but are bothered by their arms, tummy, eyes, etc... I think maybe we're all so worried about our own issues we don't even notice anyone else "shortcomings," until they decide to do something about it. Then we're all, "OMG! Can you believe she did that?" (and we haven't even talked about hair!...the straight want curly...the thick ones want thin, etc....) Wouldn't it be great if we could just share the things we have too much of..."How about I give you half of my DD's, then your A's and my DD's will both be nice, perky C's." Ok, back from Fantasyland.

Thanks for being brave enough to share this (although you shouldn't have to be brave...but it's a big deal to put yourself "out there" these days!) I know there LOTS of women who think about doing this, and it is nice to hear from someone who has actually gone through it.

:hurray: Wow! That's amazing! I know losing weight is so hard. Keep it up! You can do it. After all this hard work you deserve a tummy tuck!

Great comeback! I'll have to remember that one. Just to clarify, I was just interested in popular opinion...but it won't necessarily sway me one way or the other. I'm definitely not in the "everyone else is doing it, so it must be right...." crowd. I knew all this thinking would get me in trouble someday!;)

I didn't think I was hanging out with such people either! It's tough...I want to be supportive, but I don't want to lie to her either. I understand how she feels, but I also want to tell her all the things you've said. Tricky, tricky.

And I agree with this too...that's my dilemma. Do you understand the anguish going on in my head? I can see both sides of the argument.

I know, I know....but I've had the craziest things happening to me lately which inspire me to post here. Believe me, I thought long and hard about posting this. I don't want it to turn nasty, I'll ask the moderators to delete the thread if it does. I'm sure, as women (and probably the men on here too...feel free to chime in!) we've all thought about this topic. Just curious about where popular opinion lies, and maybe one side can understand the other and vice-versa. So, understanding good, nasty bad.

I agree in theory with this, but gee whiz...it's a jungle out there these days. It's so hard to not look around and feel inadequate, especially when these kinds of procedures are becoming more and more common. You really notice the difference when you watch old 70s or 80s movies...the women sure are "shaped" differently nowaday. My sister is a NP and she is amazed at how many women aren't all natural.

It's all caught me off guard because this is the LAST person you would think who would do this. (Not that there's any one type of person who would do this.) She's not a homeschooler, just a mom whose done having kids (5) and she's only 36. Her exact words were she "feels too young to look like a documentary subject on National Geographic." I can relate. She's having the surgery this Friday. I'm curious about it too.

Here's a topic: Plastic surgery....discuss. A friend of mine recently told me she's planning on updating her "BooKs." (and increasing the volume of them.) I'm not sure what to think of it. Sure, I've always kidded, "Oh, I'd love to do that..." but I'm not sure if I'd ever go through with it. So...any thoughts? Should we just let nature takes it's (gravitational)course, or should we fight it? Are we messing with God's plan? Do you think differently of someone who has undergone botox, facelift, or some other kind of enhancement? Would you ever do it? Just curious.... (please, let's keep it respectful, hivers.)

I wish I had some advice for you, but I'm in a similar situation since we added a kindergartener this year. I would love my oldest to be more independant, but if I don't do a lot of hand holding, the work won't get finished. MY days take forever! I'm interested to see how others responds to your question. :lurk5:

I hope you still feel that way while you're reading. Good luck. Apparently I let the genie out of the bottle and I really regret starting this thread. People will find a way to argue about anything. :sad:

I don't expect anyone who reads this little thread (well maybe not so little) with MY opinions to blindly stop what they've been doing all their lives and say, "Well, Mrs. F said so, so I'd better __________. (stop baring my breast while breastfeeding, stop wearing a bikini, make best friends with my neighbor even though I hate her, etc...) If someone out there in internet land decides to wave or even say hello to a friendly neighbor walking by rather than slamming the door because they don't want to be bothered with having to talk to someone, then I think that's good, but I'm not going to give you a cookie or anything, and if you do end up slamming the door, I won't be there to take you to jail. (Notice I didn't say you should have a two hour conversation...we are busy people, I get that.) I will probably never meet any of you, so you probably can't make my life any easier, but you might make it a little more pleasant for someone else. My opinion is that I'm sure ALL of us here are nice people. I'm sure if my kids and I were in an accident, anyone on these boards would risk their lives pulling us out. But, looking at some of these threads, it's hard to tell sometimes. We represent a huge spectrum of humanity, and each of our lifestyles, experiences, and cultures is going to affect our opinions and views of the world. There are some very conservative viewpoints, and some very liberal viewpoints. (Can you guess mine?) With such diversity, a little bit more nice would be a good thing around here. On this thread and on the bikini thread, I got several pm's (more than 10 each time) from people telling me that they agree with what I have to say, but they are too afraid to post for themselves because they couldn't handle being torn to shreds. And, I'll be honest, the bikini one really did hurt my feelings...a lot. I'm not saying I'm innocent of any wrongdoing, but I don't think it's right that people are afraid to post their opinions because they are scared of being belittled, insulted, verbally attacked, etc... That's why I keep writing even though it looks like I'm in the minority or even on my own. I know I'm not, and someone has to be the one to stand up. (although if some of you talked to me in real life like you've talked to me here, I'd cry right in front of you.) Which leads me to another point which I think someone has mentioned before. There are people behind the screen. We are anonymous here, but real live people actually type the words. I don't think anyone here would be so rude in person (well, maybe you would...I don't know) but I'm amazed how quickly we get in shouting matches with total strangers. It's easy, because we don't see the hurt on their faces when we insult them or say cruel or sarcastic things. But real feelings get hurt. Again, I'll be the first to admit that I'm not innocent, and it's often when I feel attacked that I say things that I later regret. I think we would actually hear eachother better if were a little more respectful of those with opposing opinions. I'm very surprised a thread about niceness turned so vicious. I admit (again) that I didn't think my examples through very well. I sincerely apologize if I hurt anyone's feelings, especially since my point was that we all need to be nicer to eachother. I will work on thinking things through more carefully before I type it for all the world to see. That's all.

I was waiting for someone to bring that up. Yes, let's rehash that one again too...please! I guess I have the uncanny ability to bring up things that make people uncomfortable because it might force them to think about how their actions affect others. If that makes me judgemental, fine. You're honest with me, I'm honest with you. I'm not surprised that these threads get a little "lively," although difference of opinion is one thing, meanness is another. I find it interesting to read opposing viewpoints, but I'm not likely to change my mind, just like my comments probably won't change many of your minds. Your comments certainly make me stop and think a bit, and I do appreciate and learn from them. I hope mine do the same.

:banghead::banghead: "It all depends on what your definition of the word IS is." Please change the word "purposely" (which may not even be a word?) to "radically" I'm not a radical homeschooler. I'm not a radical breastfeeder. Doing anything in a radical or extreme way makes you a bad example for that group, and gives others (the majority, who don't participate in your preferred lifestyle) an excuse for always keeping that lifestyle in an "unusual" status. People always remember the extremes, never the silent majority of homeschoolers, breastfeeders, whoever... who are just trying to do what's best for their kids. I've seen countless of breastfeeding women and I haven't thought twice about how they feed their babies. But, I will always, vividly, remember the woman nursing her baby at the grocery store with her shirt wide open for all the world to see. If any of us ever go to Kings Dominion, we will probably remember the story on this thread of the woman who let it all hang out while she fed her baby. Naysayers use these types of examples and then derive from that that all breastfeeders must be like this and use that excuse to try to curb public breastfeeding. We need to be considerate of others feelings, especially when we do something that others consider different or fringe. It might be nice to act in a way where it doesn't matter what others think of the things we do, but that is not reality. The repercussions and attention the radicals receive may very well scare off others who would like to be different in a way less radical way (future breastfeeders, homeschoolers, etc...)

I think I understand the point you are trying to make. We have the freedom to do whatever we feel is right. Yes, I agree...that's why I homeschool, that's why I breastfed, that's why I didn't vaccinate "on schedule." I think you are missing my point. We don't live in a bubble. The majority (however immature, ignorant, whatever...they are still the majority) looks what we do and makes assumptions about it. The deliquent homeschooler (and I should have said deliquent or abusive homeschooling parent...not the children) makes all of us look bad, makes all of us have to jump through hoops, and pretty much makes it certain that homeschooling will always be considered "different" or "on the fringe" rather than just another form of education. Can I dare say that these deliquent homeschooling parents even put my freedom to homeschool at risk? It doesn't matter what I personally think about seeing a bare breast while nursing, or seeing a group of "free spirited" homeschoolers. But by purposely being "different" (just because we can) we shoot ourselves in the foot because unfortunately, the majority makes the rules. If that means covering up just so others aren't offended and so that I can keep public nursing legal, then I'll cover up because if it were to become illegal I can guarantee that even fewer moms would nurse their babies. I don't agree with the majority on a lot of things, but I try to be considerate of their feelings while helping them understand my needs. You can say to yourself, "I'm going to do what I want, however I want" and that's your choice, but please realize that your choice does affect others, whether or not you think so.

I was on I-95 on the way to the base commisary in Quantico when the first plane hit. I was in the produce section when I learned that another plane had hit the other tower....in the aisles when the pentagon was hit. By the time I got to the deli, the other customers had already determined that binLadin was at fault. I sped back home to learn that another plane had crashed in PA, and I watched the towers fall. It was an awful day, and the thought of it still brings tears to my eyes.

Ok, I get this. You're saying if a woman is afraid that when nursing in public she has to be overly concerned about any showing of skin, she may not even try it, right? I can see that. But, I think a woman who has no concern about showing any skin is also at fault, because these are the women who give nursers *that* stereotype. It doesn't take many instances of seeing a bare breast for people (especially those unfamiliar or against public nursing) to think that all of us are like that. They point to the ONE woman walking around the grocery store with her shirt wide open, or the ONE sitting in King's Dominion with her breast bare for all to see (while another poor family is trying to have a picnic!) and they say, "See! That's why women shouldn't nurse in public." So, I think those few really do make it harder for the rest of us. It (usually) isn't necessary to be so blantant while nursing. This is just like the homeschooling stereotype (and all stereotypes, really) There are those few homeschoolers we hear in the news who's kids are unsocialized, abused, or worse. Then the rest of the pro-school population points to them and says, "See, that's why homeschooling should be illegal." And that's why the rest of us have to jump through all these hoops (district notification, record keeping, association membership, to name a few.) Like it or not, it makes the larger majority uncomfortable to see people doing things differently...as if for some reason a nursing mother or a homeschooler is a threat, as if what we are doing will affect them somehow. (which it will....healthy babies and smarter children are less likely to need government assistance later on.) If the trailblazers would just realize, "Hey, I'm doing something that not everyone will understand or even like, so maybe I should do my best to smooth things over and just get along, while still maintaining my right to be different" it would also encourage (most of) the larger majority to be less combative and opposed to whatever we are doing. When the majority sees most homeschoolers being "sociable" and educated, the more homeschooling will be accepted as another educational option. The more nursing mothers are seen feeding their babies without showing more of themselves, the more others will think, "Oh, she's just feeding her baby...that's great." But (for whatever reason) the sight of a bare breast freaks people out, and then they can't see the forest through the trees, so to speak (instead of she's just trying to feed her baby)....and ALL nursing mothers are back to being outcasts. I hate the fact that nursing mothers are still viewed as being different, but I think cooperation and respect (on both sides) would go a long way in making it a more accepted practice in public. I know, I know....in other countries people seem to do it with no problem or controversy. But, we don't live there, and we Americans have a long way to go in some areas. We need baby steps, not giant leaps (or breasts...in this case! Heeheehee.;)) As long as people (even a few) go out of their way to be "different," it always will be. Sis, I'm so glad you were able to nurse your baby. I know that it certainly benefitted him greatly and he is healthier today because of it. I know there are medical conditions or even just fussy baby times when a breast may make more of an appearance than the mother would prefer. We've all been there, in one way or another. That certainly isn't the issue here. I'm referring to the more "militant" (for lack of a better word) moms who might nurse blantanly just because they can. I can totally understand the "mother bear" instinct of "Don't you dare oppose me because I'm just trying to feed my kid." My husband's cousin once questioned my (fully covered) nursing while we were in a restaurant. As tempted as I was to uncover and be really indiscreet, instead I shot back, "Let's go to Hooters, then, because you'll be seeing breasts all over the place and I'll look like I'm wearing a burka covered up like this!" "Letting it all hang out" will not keep another mother from being harrassed. It will just make you another example for the naysayers to use in their argument against public nursing, and THAT will certainly not help other mothers. I'm on the same side....I really am. I just think this is one of those times where you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

One more time, and then I'm off to bed, and then you guys can talk about me while I'm away. ;) I'M FOR BREASTFEEDING! I nursed for 4 years...did LaLeche...nursed in all sorts of places...gave breastfeeding classes with my real baby...the whole shebang. Not that you need my resume...but just to let you know that I've had some experience with it. I'm not for blantant breast showing while breastfeeding. This might be a small percentage of women who do this, but it gives all nursing mothers a bad name, and it isn't necessary. If we are considerate of others everyone can be happy. A mother can nurse discreetly (with or without a blanket) and baby's tummy gets filled, and others aren't made uncomfortable. I was once on a flight where I had to nurse, so I pulled out the blanket and everything because I had a man right next to me--no breast at all was shown. The guy switched seats! (Although the Pollyanna in me has also thought that maybe he was trying to be considerate of me so he left to give me some privacy.) I can only imagine if I had pulled out the whole breast and popped it in baby's mouth...seat-switcher probably would have jumped off the plane. The reason breastfeeding and people cursing in front of children are related is that those in-your-face bfeeders don't seem to care about how anyone around them might feel about what they are doing, and they seem to do it just because they can. Just like someone cursing in front of your kids does it because he doesn't care whether or not your 4 year old knows the F-word...he talks like that just because he can. There's been many other examples on here of people doing whatever they want without consideration of others that probably would have been less explosive than breastfeeding, and I'm sorry I didn't choose to use those instead. My point (still) is, just because we can do something doesn't mean we should. We are lucky that we CAN do a lot of things in this country that aren't possible or even safe in many parts of the world. But I think a little consideration of others whenever possible (even on online forums) would be a lot better for everyone and help all of us get along a little better.

I've learned a lot too....most importantly.....never, ever start a thread having anything remotely to do with breastfeeding. ;) This cracked me up too....thanks, Mrs. Mungo. Whenever I'm in an impatient driver situation I used to think, "Maybe they're having a baby and trying to get to the hospital." Now I will chuckle when I think of....explosive diarrhea.

No matter how many times you call my remarks nasty or insulting, I am not going to engage you on this. People can decide on their own how they feel about the original post. But, thank you. Your comments so eloquently prove the point that I was trying to make.

Thank you.

Oh no....I certainly didn't mean to offend non-nursers. It's such a personal choice. I'm really, truly sorry if I hurt your (or anyone's feelings) about that. I just had to defend myself about being called ignorant. Please forgive me. Shoppers Food Warehouse....Fredericksburg, VA. I'm walking through the frozen food section and BAM! There's a mom walking around with her shirt wide open, everything hanging out...and her baby trying to nurse, but it's tricky with mom reaching in and out of the freezer. The kid wanted breastmilk, not ice cream! :lol: (Bad joke, trying to lighten the mood) Maybe not a very common site, but it does happen.

nevermind